Yale PhD in Law

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Dr. Dre
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Yale PhD in Law

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:23 pm

Does anyone know if getting a PhD in law from Yale Law help in getting a tenured track position?

Is it even worth it?

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Cobretti
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby Cobretti » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:43 pm

need moar prestige

20141023
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby 20141023 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:43 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby 09042014 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:46 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:Does anyone know if getting a PhD in law from Yale Law help in getting a tenured track position?

Is it even worth it?


The program is new. I don't think anyone has a Yale Ph.D in law yet.

thelawdoctor
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:49 pm

I think it is odd that Yale doesn't have a JD but is going to offer that.

I know Harvard and a few others have been doing it for awhile. I think the only real perk is getting to call yourself "doctor" of law without being saying "JD isn't a real doctor idiot".

-from guy with JD who picks "doctor" username due to this fact just to be an ass.

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quakeroats
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby quakeroats » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:49 pm

No. Don't do it. A PhD can help, but it should be in another subject (Economics is probably the hotest one at the moment).

thelawdoctor
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:51 pm

quakeroats wrote:No. Don't do it. A PhD can help, but it should be in another subject (Economics is probably the hotest one at the moment).


I honestly think some of us are institutionalized at this point and just want to keep going to the "max" of the legal schooling.

I will be honest I've caught myself thinking about a PhD in law for just that reason.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:01 pm

If you can do the PhD/JD for free w/ stipend (like MD/PhD), then seems like it would be a solid deal. Probably even more competitive w/ only 5-10 spots tho

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quakeroats
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby quakeroats » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:02 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
quakeroats wrote:No. Don't do it. A PhD can help, but it should be in another subject (Economics is probably the hotest one at the moment).


I honestly think some of us are institutionalized at this point and just want to keep going to the "max" of the legal schooling.

I will be honest I've caught myself thinking about a PhD in law for just that reason.



Read this:
http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblaw ... /#comments

"I teach at one of the top law schools that heavily emphasizes inter-disciplinary work. We have several PhD's and an occasional foreign SJD, but we've never hired an American SJD. The overwhelming perception is that SJD is not a serious academic degree, surely inferior to a PhD. So, if you are considering SJD versus a fellowship, SJD might be a good option, especially if SJD is at a top school while a fellowship is at a lesser school and involves a lot of time-consuming non-specialty teaching (legal research) with little faculty contact. But if your choice is PhD versus SJD, get a PhD. There is simply no comparison. PhD involves a much rigorous training and is treated with a lot more respect on the market. I bet Marc would have done more good to his academic credentials if he went back to school to finish his romance languages PhD instead of doing an SJD. (Of course, I am not saying PhD programs are universally more enjoyable or fulfilling -- just that confer a more marketable degree)."

The guy defending his decision to do a JSD says something else and then this:

"Marc - as you go down the US News ladder, a VAP or fellowship is probably even more valuable than the JSD because the VAP or fellowship provides teaching experience. Even if that teaching experience is unrelated to your area of expertise, it's valuable. In fact, everyone should teach legal writing to appreciate both the reasoning and writing schools that our first year students have and the work that our legal writing colleagues do on a daily basis.

As a hiring chair, I put no weight on a JSD - as you pointed out in your original post,it's a cleansing agent, just like an LL.M from Yale. I just don't see the point of going beyond the LL.M."

More discussion, then:

"Compare that to American candidates: when an American gets an SJD, the market infers only one thing -- s/he was not smart enough, or diligent enough, to get a real academic degree (PhD). That's why the market treats US and non-US SJDs very differently."

etc.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:06 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:I think it is odd that Yale doesn't have a JD but is going to offer that.


You're thinking of Princeton, idiot.

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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby thelawdoctor » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:41 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:I think it is odd that Yale doesn't have a JD but is going to offer that.


You're thinking of Princeton, idiot.


Am I? Eh, like it fucking matters. You won't get into either so what do you care superstar?

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Cobretti
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby Cobretti » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:47 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:I think it is odd that Yale doesn't have a JD but is going to offer that.


You're thinking of Princeton, idiot.


Am I? Eh, like it fucking matters. You won't get into either so what do you care superstar?

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jas1503
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby jas1503 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:56 pm

Cobretti wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:I think it is odd that Yale doesn't have a JD but is going to offer that.


You're thinking of Princeton, idiot.


Am I? Eh, like it fucking matters. You won't get into either so what do you care superstar?

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untar614
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby untar614 » Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:25 pm

jas1503 wrote:
Cobretti wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
You're thinking of Princeton, idiot.


Am I? Eh, like it fucking matters. You won't get into either so what do you care superstar?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:09 pm

The Ph.D. program would probably help, in that it's Yale, and the program would give you the opportunity to produce scholarship to place in law reviews, which is one of the biggest factors in getting a tenure-track position (assuming you mean in a law school). There's a fair amount of critique of the degree as disciplinarily stupid, in that law doesn't really have a specific methodology/canon/set of skills compared to content-area Ph.Ds (econ, philosophy, history, etc.). But that also presumes that hiring committees made up of people who mostly only have J.D.s will see this as enough of a problem to outweigh the benefits of Yale and time to produce legal scholarship under the guidance of Yale professors. Plus, I feel fairly sure only people with the credentials normally required to get academic jobs will get admitted to the program in the first place.

I mean, it's a really small program, and no one's gone through it yet, so there isn't any actual evidence about how well the Yale Ph.Ds will do on the job market. I agree that if you're going to do a Ph.D., doing it in something other than law will provide better intellectual training than the Ph.D. in law. But as a credential, I have a hard time thinking it won't help at least somewhat.

(This is all for positions in law schools. I don't think a Ph.D. in law is going to help much in getting a tenure-track job outside of law schools.)

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TheThriller
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby TheThriller » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:11 pm

thelawdoctor wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
thelawdoctor wrote:I think it is odd that Yale doesn't have a JD but is going to offer that.


You're thinking of Princeton, idiot.


Am I? Eh, like it fucking matters. You won't get into either so what do you care superstar?


I think what he is saying is that you can't get into Princeton

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banjo
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby banjo » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:25 am

What happens if you can't get a teaching job? Is your three year old JD still good for practice?

Alexandria
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby Alexandria » Thu Jun 13, 2013 3:47 pm

Well, I'm betting on it. I'm starting in the program this fall. I might blog about it if people seem interested -- a law school friend suggested it to me.

The faculty (particularly the ones who matter) are VERY invested in the program, and I feel like I will come out of it a much better scholar than I would have come out of a more traditional fellowship or VAP program. I also think they will be a big help when I'm on the market.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:09 pm

Alexandria wrote:Well, I'm betting on it. I'm starting in the program this fall. I might blog about it if people seem interested -- a law school friend suggested it to me.

The faculty (particularly the ones who matter) are VERY invested in the program, and I feel like I will come out of it a much better scholar than I would have come out of a more traditional fellowship or VAP program. I also think they will be a big help when I'm on the market.


wow cool! let us know how it goes, and good luck

thelawdoctor
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby thelawdoctor » Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:25 pm

Alexandria wrote:Well, I'm betting on it. I'm starting in the program this fall. I might blog about it if people seem interested -- a law school friend suggested it to me.

The faculty (particularly the ones who matter) are VERY invested in the program, and I feel like I will come out of it a much better scholar than I would have come out of a more traditional fellowship or VAP program. I also think they will be a big help when I'm on the market.


Did you already get accepted or do you just expect to get accepted?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:11 pm

I think when she says she's starting the program in the fall, it means she's been accepted.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:12 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think when she says she's starting the program in the fall, it means she's been accepted.


one would hope, unless yale is pulling a TTT move and taking applications in June.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:14 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I think when she says she's starting the program in the fall, it means she's been accepted.


one would hope, unless yale is pulling a TTT move and taking applications in June.

Yeah, I'd be verrrrrry surprised by that.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby Dr. Dre » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:30 pm

Alexandria wrote:Well, I'm betting on it. I'm starting in the program this fall. I might blog about it if people seem interested -- a law school friend suggested it to me.

The faculty (particularly the ones who matter) are VERY invested in the program, and I feel like I will come out of it a much better scholar than I would have come out of a more traditional fellowship or VAP program. I also think they will be a big help when I'm on the market.



You single?

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nyjets2090
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Re: Yale PhD in Law

Postby nyjets2090 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:19 pm

Although it looks like you get the Ph.D from the grad school, not YLS.




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