Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

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bizzybone1313
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Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby bizzybone1313 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:33 am

I hope all is well today guys. I need some advice. This shit gives me anxiety all of the time.

When I graduated from undergrad in 2008, I got offered 4 jobs. Unfortunately, I accepted the wrong one and ended working with a bunch of pricks. At this first job, I worked there for 2 1/2 years and then jumped ship to another company for a year.

When I went to the second company, the first one tried to get me fired by changing my title and contacting my new employer to talk shit. These guys have a significant ax to grind.

I am worried they are going to badmouth me to the bar and try to make me fail C&F. I am also concerned about what might be considered a discrepancy between the title I report on my LS apps and what they report to the bar. The title they are going to report is not remotely close to the manager one I had-- they are going to say I did administrative type work.

I also am considering leaving them off my resume when I go to OCI, but I know I am going to be questioned of this two year gap on my resume. These guys are no doubt going to talk shit about me and try to prevent me from getting a job. Maybe I would get lucky and the firm wouldn't ask me when I graduated from undergrad and I could get away with not listing them. I would just need to get my foot in the door for a summer 2L and prove myself.

What do I do? I am going to apply to LS this upcoming fall.

09042014
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:38 am

bizzybone1313 wrote:I hope all is well today guys. I need some advice. This shit gives me anxiety all of the time.

When I graduated from undergrad in 2008, I got offered 4 jobs. Unfortunately, I accepted the wrong one and ended working with a bunch of pricks. At this first job, I worked there for 2 1/2 years and then jumped ship to another company for a year.

When I went to the second company, the first one tried to get me fired by changing my title and contacting my new employer to talk shit. These guys have a significant ax to grind.

I am worried they are going to badmouth me to the bar and try to make me fail C&F. I am also concerned about what might be considered a discrepancy between the title I report on my LS apps and what they report to the bar. The title they are going to report is not remotely close to the manager one I had-- they are going to say I did administrative type work.

I also am considering leaving them off my resume when I go to OCI, but I know I am going to be questioned of this two year gap on my resume. These guys are no doubt going to talk shit about me and try to prevent me from getting a job. Maybe I would get lucky and the firm wouldn't ask me when I graduated from undergrad and I could get away with not listing them. I would just need to get my foot in the door for a summer 2L and prove myself.

What do I do? I am going to apply to LS this upcoming fall.


For OCI, it won't harm you. Very, very, very few firms call references and you can just use your last employer for that anyway.

For C&F, talk to your school but I bet you'll be alright. You'll have to list them on your bar app, and they'll probably shit talk you, but C&F is kind of a low bar. Be truthful, don't hide shit, and you'll be fine.

The best thing to do, is pay a shitlawyer to write a threatening letter saying if they slander you again you will sue them. That'll shut them up. You might be able to find an unemployed lawyer on teh Buy/Sell Forum here.

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:54 am

If they are just going to call you an asshole, that won't have any effect on C&F. If they are going to make things up about you that would get you in trouble, then sue the pants off of them. Better yet, contact them in advance and let them know that if anything they say is false or misleading, you will file a lawsuit.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby bizzybone1313 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:38 pm

Has anyone else had experience with this type of garbage?

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twenty
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby twenty » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:13 pm

I would have filed a suit the first time this happened, but that's just me. Get one of your attorney buddies to pull together a generic letter that threatens to sue if they say anything defamatory in the future.

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Tekrul
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby Tekrul » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:15 pm

I'm sorry for the situation you're in, I can't say I have any experience in the matter. I'm no lawyer yet but it seems like this could be defamation in a phone call reference, considering they are disparaging your character, and libel in any sort of written recommendation, considering they changed your employment title, probably in their records as well, and the nature of the work you did there. You must be able to gag them in some way. I'm seeing a friend tonight who does white collar crim defense (unless this flooding in NJ/NYC starts to really suck), I'll show him this thread - not exactly the kind of laywer you need but he must have some knowledge of this.

Mr.Throwback
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby Mr.Throwback » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:22 pm

Tekrul wrote:I'm sorry for the situation you're in, I can't say I have any experience in the matter. I'm no lawyer yet but it seems like this could be defamation in a phone call reference, considering they are disparaging your character, and libel in any sort of written recommendation, considering they changed your employment title, probably in their records as well, and the nature of the work you did there. You must be able to gag them in some way. I'm seeing a friend tonight who does white collar crim defense (unless this flooding in NJ/NYC starts to really suck), I'll show him this thread - not exactly the kind of laywer you need but he must have some knowledge of this.



The flooding will continue to suck. It is BAD out there.


To the OP. Try contacting these employers and explain to them situation you'll be in with OCI. Hopefully they understand the importance of OCI as it pertains to your career for the rest of your life. Tell them some law firms might be in contact with them and, maybe since time has passed, your employers can remember your good work. Also, I would work on your professional character 2 out 2 jobs where your employer is trying to fire you sounds like you might be the issue, not them.
Last edited by Mr.Throwback on Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Tekrul
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby Tekrul » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:30 pm

It's just the first employer that is the issue. OP didn't bring mention if any problems with second employer.

On that note, yes the flooding is terrible. He's still coming though.

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holdencaulfield
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby holdencaulfield » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:04 pm

Unless you've got plenty of money to spare, don't hire an attorney. Be honest on your bar app and you'll be fine. Filing suit will only cost you time and money you likely do not have.

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Tekrul
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby Tekrul » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:01 am

My buddy said you're SOL unless your former employer has caused you harm by his defamatory statements which won't occur until his false statements have already been passed onto the OCI peeps and they didn't give you an offer they otherwise would have. Before such harm occurs, you don't have a sufficient case for defamation and won't get an injunction. Since you got your 2nd employment despite the former employer's malice, he said a court will probably find no harm in that scenario to get you an injunction prior to OCI.

He said to qualify his opinion with the fact that he is a very junior lawyer, only just out of law school, and is pulling this from memory and may not be totally accurate depending on the jurisdiction that this whole thing went down in.

Sorry for the late response, we got faded as hell to celebrate his new job.

Everything past this point is my view as a 0L, FYI

I wouldn't worry about it. Just don't list the guy as a reference for OCI and if you are pressed about the 2 year gap, say you did work, but didn't consider the nature of work or company or whatever relevant to the employer and didn't include it to keep your résumé tight and on point.

As for bar C&F, if the employer does produce any sort of harassment or defamation causing you to fail it, you will have all the things you need to properly bring suit - I gather this from the fact that my buddy said all you were missing was injury of some kind.

09042014
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby 09042014 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:37 pm

Tekrul wrote:My buddy said you're SOL unless your former employer has caused you harm by his defamatory statements which won't occur until his false statements have already been passed onto the OCI peeps and they didn't give you an offer they otherwise would have. Before such harm occurs, you don't have a sufficient case for defamation and won't get an injunction. Since you got your 2nd employment despite the former employer's malice, he said a court will probably find no harm in that scenario to get you an injunction prior to OCI.

He said to qualify his opinion with the fact that he is a very junior lawyer, only just out of law school, and is pulling this from memory and may not be totally accurate depending on the jurisdiction that this whole thing went down in.

Sorry for the late response, we got faded as hell to celebrate his new job.

Everything past this point is my view as a 0L, FYI

I wouldn't worry about it. Just don't list the guy as a reference for OCI and if you are pressed about the 2 year gap, say you did work, but didn't consider the nature of work or company or whatever relevant to the employer and didn't include it to keep your résumé tight and on point.

As for bar C&F, if the employer does produce any sort of harassment or defamation causing you to fail it, you will have all the things you need to properly bring suit - I gather this from the fact that my buddy said all you were missing was injury of some kind.


You don't have to actually sue the person, just threaten it with a real lawyer. A cease and desist letter would work.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:49 pm

Mr.Throwback wrote:
Tekrul wrote:I'm sorry for the situation you're in, I can't say I have any experience in the matter. I'm no lawyer yet but it seems like this could be defamation in a phone call reference, considering they are disparaging your character, and libel in any sort of written recommendation, considering they changed your employment title, probably in their records as well, and the nature of the work you did there. You must be able to gag them in some way. I'm seeing a friend tonight who does white collar crim defense (unless this flooding in NJ/NYC starts to really suck), I'll show him this thread - not exactly the kind of laywer you need but he must have some knowledge of this.



The flooding will continue to suck. It is BAD out there.


To the OP. Try contacting these employers and explain to them situation you'll be in with OCI. Hopefully they understand the importance of OCI as it pertains to your career for the rest of your life. Tell them some law firms might be in contact with them and, maybe since time has passed, your employers can remember your good work. Also, I would work on your professional character 2 out 2 jobs where your employer is trying to fire you sounds like you might be the issue, not them.


Only one employer is trying to badmouth me and they will continue to do it in the future. I never said I have had issues with two former employers. These guys have a significant ax to grind for a reason that is immaterial to the type of advice you guys would give me. I know why they don't like me and I have proof of it. If you really want to know why they have an ax to grind, PM me and I will tell you. I don't want the nitty gritty details to be floating around on the internet though.

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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:51 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:I hope all is well today guys. I need some advice. This shit gives me anxiety all of the time.

When I graduated from undergrad in 2008, I got offered 4 jobs. Unfortunately, I accepted the wrong one and ended working with a bunch of pricks. At this first job, I worked there for 2 1/2 years and then jumped ship to another company for a year.

When I went to the second company, the first one tried to get me fired by changing my title and contacting my new employer to talk shit. These guys have a significant ax to grind.

I am worried they are going to badmouth me to the bar and try to make me fail C&F. I am also concerned about what might be considered a discrepancy between the title I report on my LS apps and what they report to the bar. The title they are going to report is not remotely close to the manager one I had-- they are going to say I did administrative type work.

I also am considering leaving them off my resume when I go to OCI, but I know I am going to be questioned of this two year gap on my resume. These guys are no doubt going to talk shit about me and try to prevent me from getting a job. Maybe I would get lucky and the firm wouldn't ask me when I graduated from undergrad and I could get away with not listing them. I would just need to get my foot in the door for a summer 2L and prove myself.

What do I do? I am going to apply to LS this upcoming fall.


For OCI, it won't harm you. Very, very, very few firms call references and you can just use your last employer for that anyway.

For C&F, talk to your school but I bet you'll be alright. You'll have to list them on your bar app, and they'll probably shit talk you, but C&F is kind of a low bar. Be truthful, don't hide shit, and you'll be fine.

The best thing to do, is pay a shitlawyer to write a threatening letter saying if they slander you again you will sue them. That'll shut them up. You might be able to find an unemployed lawyer on teh Buy/Sell Forum here.


(1) Well, as far as I know, part of C&F is comparing what one said on LS apps versus what they end up finding out. So, if I write on my LS apps that I was a Manager at XYZ Company from 2009-2011 and they claim I was a Administrative Assistant during that time period, couldn't this cause me a lot of problems? What can I do about this? I have considered anoymously writing a few top law schools and asking them what I should do in this situation. I have the original offer letter with the Manager title on it and they are obviously just badmouthing me, because they have an ax to grind.

(2) I am thinking of not even listing these guys on my resume for OCI, because their ultimate goal is to keep me from getting a job. Either way, I am not sure what the right thing to do is. I was able to hold onto my second job from which they ruthlessly and relentlessly tried to get me fired from, but I am still really worried about OCI. OCI is obviously really, really important.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:53 pm

I have read that for government jobs that people need to list every position they have worked at for the past 10 years. This really blows, because I have thought about wanting to work in the government at some point. I know, I know, these positions are difficult to get, but this may not always be the case.

I just need to get that first legal job and after that I can build a resume. I am just really worried about these guys, because I know they still have the potential to do me harm in the future. It doesn't help that my profile is going to be listed on a firm's website no matter what. I wouldn't put it past them to call up my partners at my firm just to talk shit even after I get hired.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby bizzybone1313 » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:56 pm

Tekrul wrote:My buddy said you're SOL unless your former employer has caused you harm by his defamatory statements which won't occur until his false statements have already been passed onto the OCI peeps and they didn't give you an offer they otherwise would have. Before such harm occurs, you don't have a sufficient case for defamation and won't get an injunction. Since you got your 2nd employment despite the former employer's malice, he said a court will probably find no harm in that scenario to get you an injunction prior to OCI.

He said to qualify his opinion with the fact that he is a very junior lawyer, only just out of law school, and is pulling this from memory and may not be totally accurate depending on the jurisdiction that this whole thing went down in.

Sorry for the late response, we got faded as hell to celebrate his new job.

Everything past this point is my view as a 0L, FYI

I wouldn't worry about it. Just don't list the guy as a reference for OCI and if you are pressed about the 2 year gap, say you did work, but didn't consider the nature of work or company or whatever relevant to the employer and didn't include it to keep your résumé tight and on point.

As for bar C&F, if the employer does produce any sort of harassment or defamation causing you to fail it, you will have all the things you need to properly bring suit - I gather this from the fact that my buddy said all you were missing was injury of some kind.


I actually paid an attorney to give me advice when these guys were endlessly trying to get me fired from my second job. The attorney basically said that if they were successful in getting me fired from the new job and if I was then able to get a new one there probably wouldn't be much financial remedy. It would essentially be the money that I lost during the interim from when I got fired from the second job until the next job I was able to get.

For you lawyers out there, he said the legal doctrine that most likely would have been used is tortous interference with business relationship or some shit like that. He said libel would be a hard case to win. It didn't sound like it would have been worth it to sue at that point.

I was under a strict deadline to respond to my second employer's request for more information when these guys started talking shit. I only had like 2-3 days. Unfornuately, I didn't have enough time to hunt down an employment law attorney and had to settle for a general practice one. I tried to contact several employment law attorneys and they just weren't responding to me.

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holdencaulfield
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby holdencaulfield » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:27 am

Dont take if off your resume, just don't provide contact info.


How are they still "out to get you" this far down the road? I would think the situation would've simmered by now.

I'll again say that a lawyer will likey get you nowhere - just hope everyone moves on and cools off.

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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby holdencaulfield » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:34 am

bizzybone1313 wrote: I wouldn't put it past them to call up my partners at my firm just to talk shit even after I get hired.


You may consider telling your supervising partner AFTER you are hired. Either way, unless the partner is a douch (or your ex employer is well connected), the partner will tell them to go ef themselves. In my experience, partners have your back unless you completey screw the pooch.

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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby bizzybone1313 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:57 am

holdencaulfield wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote: I wouldn't put it past them to call up my partners at my firm just to talk shit even after I get hired.


You may consider telling your supervising partner AFTER you are hired. Either way, unless the partner is a douch (or your ex employer is well connected), the partner will tell them to go ef themselves. In my experience, partners have your back unless you completey screw the pooch.


My goal is just to get a SA and then prove myself at that point. If I get a SA, I will be OK. If firms didn't pay SA's so much, it would just be like any other industry whereby internships are given out like candy and it isn't a big deal. I don't want firms to have any reason to not give me a shot at a SA. That is what I am worried about. The only backup plan I have thought of if I strike out at OCI is for me to gun for a clerkship anywhere in the country. But getting a clerkship is obviously dependent on class rank and the eliteness of one's school, so this isn't a good backup plan.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:16 am

your former employer can suck mah cock

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Summerz
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby Summerz » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:09 am

If this were happening to me: I’d have a trusted attorney friend call from her/his firm and ask for a reference, under the pretense that they were considering me for employment. My guess is that the old law firm would simply provide the dates of my employment (standard protocol). However, if they went the trash talking route, then let the games begin. Just make sure your recorder is working (may need to check state law on recorded conversations).

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Tekrul
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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby Tekrul » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:50 pm

From a LE POV, this seems like entrapment, but I guess if they were going to do it no matter what, maybe not

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Re: Former Employer Is Going to Badmouth Me-- OCI/LS Apps/C&F

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:23 am

As others have said this really shouldn't be a problem at OCI and you won't be dealing with C&F for a few years. I'd just let it go until then and hope things have blown over. If you start threatening to sue them now you'll have to pay a lawyer and whatever animus they have towards you will reach new highs. And if they are still looking to screw with you it's not a bad idea to keep them from knowing you're even in law school.




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