Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby lzyovrachievr » Sun May 26, 2013 6:26 pm

DaleCooper wrote:Wall of text.

So, sounds like either person has good advice. It just depends on what you're going for.

I also agree that TLS has a lot of accumulated wisdom, but for me, I wanted that backed up by someone with a bit more authority. I read her book, Montauk's, Ivey's, and about 4 others because I'm anal retentive and TLS doesn't really subdue the admissions OCD. Each of them had good information. For the most part, they were very similar, so if you're looking for a book, I'd just go with the one that has the personality or approach you find most appealing. You could also choose by cover, for all that matters. But the book is good regardless of where she worked, etc.

I can't speak to what works better for URMs. My admissions cycle went very well, and I thank TLS and the books for that, as well as decent numbers.

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LexLeon
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby LexLeon » Sun May 26, 2013 11:31 pm

dawyzest1 wrote:Dre, you're experienced enough in this to know that URM admissions are different. She doesn't have much to say on the topic other than to confirm the existence of boosts etc.

I've yet to find a book that gives good substantive advice to URMs applying. The best resource by far is GAIA's thread on TLS.


Hello brother,

I wonder:

What type of "URM'"-specific advice would you like?

Would you like, for example, advice that affirms that a particular type of essay, when written by a URM, tends to be successful?

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Borg
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby Borg » Mon May 27, 2013 1:04 am

Dr. Dre wrote:Where are the pros that specialize in URM's then? Where they at? Who are they?


You don't need an expert for this. URMs obviously have it easier, so if anything you only need a watered down version of admissions consulting. Here, these are the two possible diversity essays you can write:

1. If you grew up in rich white suburbs: "I remember my first day standing in the cafeteria at [insert college here]. It was just like every day at my high school - a lone black face standing out in a white squall. It's never easy being singled out, but the immutable traits that made me who I am seemed even more insurmountable now that I was faced with the same significant social pressures that confronted any college student. Was I really that different, and did it matter to the people I was hoping to call my new friends?"

2. If you grew up in a poor black area: "I remember my first day standing in the cafeteria at [insert college here]. It was a totally new experience - a single black face standing out in a white squall. It's never easy being singled out, but after growing up in a community where my skin color made me blend in rather than stand out, I didn't know how to react. The immutable traits that made me who I am seemed even more insurmountable now that I was faced with an identity crisis along with the same significant social pressures that confronted any college student. Was I really that different, and did it matter to the people I was hoping to call my new friends?"

Boom. Overcome the adversity and succeed in either context (perhaps with "bumps in the road" if your GPA sucks) and you're in. Just saved you several thousand dollars. PM me if you want to send me a check.

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AlexVee
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby AlexVee » Tue May 28, 2013 7:26 pm

ManOfTheMinute wrote:
North wrote:Former Director of Admissions at the prestigious Loyola LA and California Western Law Schools.

It's cool that she found anther way to leech cash from this generation, though.


180



Zing.

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Wed May 29, 2013 11:48 am

Even if Levine's book is the greatest thing of all time that would guarantee me admission to Yale, I wouldn't pay for it. The "advice" I have seen her give on her website is criminal. Happily encouraging people with 145s to go for certain TTTTs. Profiting off of advising naive/desperate young people to make life-ruining decisions. She should be in jail.

NYstate
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby NYstate » Wed May 29, 2013 11:57 am

Only buy this book if you also read Campos book for $5 on dont go to law school.

TLS has better advice. Just post questions.

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North
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby North » Wed May 29, 2013 11:58 am

RhymesLikeDimes wrote:Even if Levine's book is the greatest thing of all time that would guarantee me admission to Yale, I wouldn't pay for it. The "advice" I have seen her give on her website is criminal. Happily encouraging people with 145s to go for certain TTTTs. Profiting off of advising naive/desperate young people to make life-ruining decisions. She should be in jail.

Real talk.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed May 29, 2013 5:21 pm

Update: I will not be using Anne Levine's services.

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hephaestus
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby hephaestus » Wed May 29, 2013 5:25 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:Update: I will not be using Anne Levine's services.

Good call

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed May 29, 2013 5:31 pm

Yup I don't like white collar criminals -- blue collar ones are ok.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby Dr. Dre » Thu May 30, 2013 10:17 am

Borg wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:Where are the pros that specialize in URM's then? Where they at? Who are they?


You don't need an expert for this. URMs obviously have it easier, so if anything you only need a watered down version of admissions consulting. Here, these are the two possible diversity essays you can write:

1. If you grew up in rich white suburbs: "I remember my first day standing in the cafeteria at [insert college here]. It was just like every day at my high school - a lone black face standing out in a white squall. It's never easy being singled out, but the immutable traits that made me who I am seemed even more insurmountable now that I was faced with the same significant social pressures that confronted any college student. Was I really that different, and did it matter to the people I was hoping to call my new friends?"

2. If you grew up in a poor black area: "I remember my first day standing in the cafeteria at [insert college here]. It was a totally new experience - a single black face standing out in a white squall. It's never easy being singled out, but after growing up in a community where my skin color made me blend in rather than stand out, I didn't know how to react. The immutable traits that made me who I am seemed even more insurmountable now that I was faced with an identity crisis along with the same significant social pressures that confronted any college student. Was I really that different, and did it matter to the people I was hoping to call my new friends?"

Boom. Overcome the adversity and succeed in either context (perhaps with "bumps in the road" if your GPA sucks) and you're in. Just saved you several thousand dollars. PM me if you want to send me a check.


Not to be a dick, but the two possible diversity statements you suggested are TTT.

They are on par with what I wrote for my college admissions essay.

I would assume law schools would want something a bit more sophisticated, insightful, and in-depth. (At least the ones that don't spit out graduates that can't find jerbs with over 100k in student loans, and subsequently commit suicide as a result).

gertie
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby gertie » Thu May 30, 2013 11:11 am

I found the CLEO program really helpful when I attended their ASAP(Achieving Success in the Application Process) session which is geared toward minority applications.
Dr. Dre wrote:Where are the pros that specialize in URM's then? Where they at? Who are they?

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Borg
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby Borg » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:53 am

Dr. Dre wrote:
Borg wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:Where are the pros that specialize in URM's then? Where they at? Who are they?


You don't need an expert for this. URMs obviously have it easier, so if anything you only need a watered down version of admissions consulting. Here, these are the two possible diversity essays you can write:

1. If you grew up in rich white suburbs: "I remember my first day standing in the cafeteria at [insert college here]. It was just like every day at my high school - a lone black face standing out in a white squall. It's never easy being singled out, but the immutable traits that made me who I am seemed even more insurmountable now that I was faced with the same significant social pressures that confronted any college student. Was I really that different, and did it matter to the people I was hoping to call my new friends?"

2. If you grew up in a poor black area: "I remember my first day standing in the cafeteria at [insert college here]. It was a totally new experience - a single black face standing out in a white squall. It's never easy being singled out, but after growing up in a community where my skin color made me blend in rather than stand out, I didn't know how to react. The immutable traits that made me who I am seemed even more insurmountable now that I was faced with an identity crisis along with the same significant social pressures that confronted any college student. Was I really that different, and did it matter to the people I was hoping to call my new friends?"

Boom. Overcome the adversity and succeed in either context (perhaps with "bumps in the road" if your GPA sucks) and you're in. Just saved you several thousand dollars. PM me if you want to send me a check.


Not to be a dick, but the two possible diversity statements you suggested are TTT.

They are on par with what I wrote for my college admissions essay.

I would assume law schools would want something a bit more sophisticated, insightful, and in-depth. (At least the ones that don't spit out graduates that can't find jerbs with over 100k in student loans, and subsequently commit suicide as a result).


That was meant to be tongue in cheek. In all seriousness though, I really doubt that it matters what you write as long as it is coherent. Admissions officer sees that you check the box for black or latino or another URM and it doesn't really matter, they get to check their diversity box. They "read" 15,000 applications, but what that actually means is that they have their assistants create four piles - one with scores in the typical range, another with applicants that are borderline numerically, a third that are not admissible based on numbers, and a fourth relatively small pile that consists of URM applicants. The students in that fourth pile will largely be admitted unless they have egregiously low numbers. For example, a 3.5 and a 163 was good enough to get into Harvard this cycle. They aren't going to care much about the content of the diversity essay, they only care that it is coherent, shows that you're diverse, and they can pump up their URM numbers.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby Dr. Dre » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:07 am

Borg wrote:and a fourth relatively small pile that consists of URM applicants.



are the URM piles really that small ? :shock:

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Borg
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby Borg » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:42 am

Dr. Dre wrote:
Borg wrote:and a fourth relatively small pile that consists of URM applicants.



are the URM piles really that small ? :shock:


Yeah definitely, take a look on LawSchoolNumbers.com. Go to the graph view of one of the schools you are interested in, and then filter only for URMs by pushing the URM button and hitting the graph button again. That's probably pretty representative, and it works in your favor as there are only so many URMs to go around at top schools.

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:45 am

Borg wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:
Borg wrote:and a fourth relatively small pile that consists of URM applicants.



are the URM piles really that small ? :shock:


Yeah definitely, take a look on LawSchoolNumbers.com. Go to the graph view of one of the schools you are interested in, and then filter only for URMs by pushing the URM button and hitting the graph button again. That's probably pretty representative, and it works in your favor as there are only so many URMs to go around at top schools.


This post provides a more detailed breakdown:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=195443

According to his calculations, approximately 335 URMs scored above a 160.

There are about 4,500 spots total in the T-14. So yeah, the piles are pretty small.

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LexLeon
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby LexLeon » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:28 pm

Borg wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:
Borg wrote:
Dr. Dre wrote:Where are the pros that specialize in URM's then? Where they at? Who are they?


You don't need an expert for this. URMs obviously have it easier, so if anything you only need a watered down version of admissions consulting. Here, these are the two possible diversity essays you can write:

1. If you grew up in rich white suburbs: "I remember my first day standing in the cafeteria at [insert college here]. It was just like every day at my high school - a lone black face standing out in a white squall. It's never easy being singled out, but the immutable traits that made me who I am seemed even more insurmountable now that I was faced with the same significant social pressures that confronted any college student. Was I really that different, and did it matter to the people I was hoping to call my new friends?"

2. If you grew up in a poor black area: "I remember my first day standing in the cafeteria at [insert college here]. It was a totally new experience - a single black face standing out in a white squall. It's never easy being singled out, but after growing up in a community where my skin color made me blend in rather than stand out, I didn't know how to react. The immutable traits that made me who I am seemed even more insurmountable now that I was faced with an identity crisis along with the same significant social pressures that confronted any college student. Was I really that different, and did it matter to the people I was hoping to call my new friends?"

Boom. Overcome the adversity and succeed in either context (perhaps with "bumps in the road" if your GPA sucks) and you're in. Just saved you several thousand dollars. PM me if you want to send me a check.


Not to be a dick, but the two possible diversity statements you suggested are TTT.

They are on par with what I wrote for my college admissions essay.

I would assume law schools would want something a bit more sophisticated, insightful, and in-depth. (At least the ones that don't spit out graduates that can't find jerbs with over 100k in student loans, and subsequently commit suicide as a result).


That was meant to be tongue in cheek. In all seriousness though, I really doubt that it matters what you write as long as it is coherent. Admissions officer sees that you check the box for black or latino or another URM and it doesn't really matter, they get to check their diversity box. They "read" 15,000 applications, but what that actually means is that they have their assistants create four piles - one with scores in the typical range, another with applicants that are borderline numerically, a third that are not admissible based on numbers, and a fourth relatively small pile that consists of URM applicants. The students in that fourth pile will largely be admitted unless they have egregiously low numbers. For example, a 3.5 and a 163 was good enough to get into Harvard this cycle. They aren't going to care much about the content of the diversity essay, they only care that it is coherent, shows that you're diverse, and they can pump up their URM numbers.


Have you read any Supreme Court opinions on diversity in higher education?

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:21 am

LexLeon wrote:
Borg wrote:
That was meant to be tongue in cheek. In all seriousness though, I really doubt that it matters what you write as long as it is coherent. Admissions officer sees that you check the box for black or latino or another URM and it doesn't really matter, they get to check their diversity box. They "read" 15,000 applications, but what that actually means is that they have their assistants create four piles - one with scores in the typical range, another with applicants that are borderline numerically, a third that are not admissible based on numbers, and a fourth relatively small pile that consists of URM applicants. The students in that fourth pile will largely be admitted unless they have egregiously low numbers. For example, a 3.5 and a 163 was good enough to get into Harvard this cycle. They aren't going to care much about the content of the diversity essay, they only care that it is coherent, shows that you're diverse, and they can pump up their URM numbers.


Have you read any Supreme Court opinions on diversity in higher education?


Have you looked at lawschoolnumbers.com or mylsn.info? Because regardless of what the Supreme Court says, reality seems to support his assertion.

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Borg
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby Borg » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:51 am

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
LexLeon wrote:
Borg wrote:
That was meant to be tongue in cheek. In all seriousness though, I really doubt that it matters what you write as long as it is coherent. Admissions officer sees that you check the box for black or latino or another URM and it doesn't really matter, they get to check their diversity box. They "read" 15,000 applications, but what that actually means is that they have their assistants create four piles - one with scores in the typical range, another with applicants that are borderline numerically, a third that are not admissible based on numbers, and a fourth relatively small pile that consists of URM applicants. The students in that fourth pile will largely be admitted unless they have egregiously low numbers. For example, a 3.5 and a 163 was good enough to get into Harvard this cycle. They aren't going to care much about the content of the diversity essay, they only care that it is coherent, shows that you're diverse, and they can pump up their URM numbers.


Have you read any Supreme Court opinions on diversity in higher education?


Have you looked at lawschoolnumbers.com or mylsn.info? Because regardless of what the Supreme Court says, reality seems to support his assertion.


Seriously. What I'm saying is consistent with Grutter v. Bollinger. It's not a quota system, and can easily fit within the framework of a "holistic" system of evaluation. The school doesn't necessarily assign points or attempt to meet a specific threshold. When I say "pump up their URM numbers," it's in reference to US News/public opinion, not some internal metric. I guarantee this is the way things actually work in practice, regardless of point systems or any other ultimately irrelevant issue SCOTUS has tackled.

ihill
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby ihill » Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:53 pm

Br3v wrote: Idk it may give me peace of mind to just shell out and pay a professional to tell me to retake and ED UVA


This made me lol

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:13 am

she just wrote a new book

--ImageRemoved--

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LexLeon
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby LexLeon » Thu Jun 13, 2013 9:32 pm

Borg wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
LexLeon wrote:
Borg wrote:
That was meant to be tongue in cheek. In all seriousness though, I really doubt that it matters what you write as long as it is coherent. Admissions officer sees that you check the box for black or latino or another URM and it doesn't really matter, they get to check their diversity box. They "read" 15,000 applications, but what that actually means is that they have their assistants create four piles - one with scores in the typical range, another with applicants that are borderline numerically, a third that are not admissible based on numbers, and a fourth relatively small pile that consists of URM applicants. The students in that fourth pile will largely be admitted unless they have egregiously low numbers. For example, a 3.5 and a 163 was good enough to get into Harvard this cycle. They aren't going to care much about the content of the diversity essay, they only care that it is coherent, shows that you're diverse, and they can pump up their URM numbers.


Have you read any Supreme Court opinions on diversity in higher education?


Have you looked at lawschoolnumbers.com or mylsn.info? Because regardless of what the Supreme Court says, reality seems to support his assertion.


Seriously. What I'm saying is consistent with Grutter v. Bollinger. It's not a quota system, and can easily fit within the framework of a "holistic" system of evaluation. The school doesn't necessarily assign points or attempt to meet a specific threshold. When I say "pump up their URM numbers," it's in reference to US News/public opinion, not some internal metric. I guarantee this is the way things actually work in practice, regardless of point systems or any other ultimately irrelevant issue SCOTUS has tackled.


Please bear in mind that "a quota system," or "assigning points," or setting "a specific threshold," are, indeed, inconsistent with Grutter. But Grutter requires more from race-conscious admissions policies than the absence of those features.

I'm not saying that you're definitely incorrect.

But

"As Justice Powell made clear in Bakke, truly individualized
consideration demands that race be used in a flexible,
nonmechanical way. It follows from this mandate that
universities cannot...put members of [certain racial] groups on
separate admissions tracks."

539 U.S. at 334; See: 438 U.S. at 315 - 316

And I was thinking that Justice O'Connor wrote that

"[A] university's admissions program must remain flexible enough to
ensure that each applicant is evaluated as an individual and
not in a way that makes an applicant's race or ethnicity
the defining feature of his or her application. The importance
of this individualized consideration...is paramount."

539 U.S. at 339; See: 438 U.S. at 318

So I thought that dividing some applicants into a pile, because of their races, and admitting them by virtue of their status in this pile, "unless they have egregiously low numbers," (you, above) would make race "the defining feature of" (539 U.S. at 339) an application, and put the members of "that fourth pile" (you, above) and members of the other three piles "on separate admissions tracks" (539 U.S. at 334).

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bk1
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby bk1 » Thu Jun 13, 2013 11:26 pm

lololololol at citing SCOTUS opinions.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby Dr. Dre » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:33 am

I remember reading a section from her book and she basically dissed law school forums.

She said that the advice given in such sites isn't good at all.

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dr123
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Re: Ann Levine — Worth da $$ ???

Postby dr123 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:36 am

probably not




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