Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

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moshei24
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby moshei24 » Fri May 24, 2013 1:03 am

sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:Actually, this is more like it: http://www.mylsn.info/6dikri

But that includes ED at every school, which isn't realistic, so this is more realistic had I applied early: http://www.mylsn.info/uzj0i3

And I don't think I'd be at the median. I tend to be successful when I put the effort into what I do, and I don't think law school will be the magic exception. And this is not from an arrogant perspective; this is just how I make things turn out with what I attempt. I'm confident about it.

I'd go to school out of NYC, and possibly even work out of NYC, but my family is here, so that make COL better.



Everyone who goes to Fordham has some degree of success. That is why their median GPA is over 3.5 and median LSAT is over the 90th percentile. For every person top 10%, there is another bottom 10%, same for 25%, 33%, etc. It is good to be confident. I think I will be top 25% wherever I attend. But that's the thing, everyone thinks that. And betting that amount of money on it is probably not a great idea.

The point was to increase sample size, which is why I ranged from 169-171, then again, you could always retake, and next cycle you could apply ED if you wanted to.



I can't retake. I took it 3 times. And the 171 makes the difference, because it surpasses 170.

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Clearly
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby Clearly » Fri May 24, 2013 1:04 am

moshei24 wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:
moshei24 wrote:Actually, this is more like it: http://www.mylsn.info/6dikri

But that includes ED at every school, which isn't realistic, so this is more realistic had I applied early: http://www.mylsn.info/uzj0i3

And I don't think I'd be at the median. I tend to be successful when I put the effort into what I do, and I don't think law school will be the magic exception. And this is not from an arrogant perspective; this is just how I make things turn out with what I attempt. I'm confident about it.

I'd go to school out of NYC, and possibly even work out of NYC, but my family is here, so that make COL better.


Except everyone else there can say the same thing, and you're being graded against them. Some of who will be on full rides...

You've so consistently furthered bad ideas in this thread I'm calling flame, but just in case, lets go over the actual facts.

These schools do not place well.
You WILL get into a better school if you apply earlier, period.
Transferring is a shit idea.
You can not predict where you will be in the class rank.



I have a pretty flawless track record when I work my ass off. I've only done so a few times in my life, though. And I'm not guaranteed to get into somewhere better. Bottom of T14 isn't necessarily a better deal, especially with pretty much no money, and the mid T14 are 50/50 from that site you showed me, as I showed you in the most accurate link.

Also, Fordham gives very few full scholarships, so LSAT score wise, I will likely be toward the top.

And also, what percent of my class would I need to be in in a T7 to get a good job? T50%? Is that easier than T15% in Fordham given that "smarter" (LSAT score wise) will be in the greater school?


Dude, your track record doesn't MATTER. EVERYONE will have a flawless track record, and many of them will have done harder things than you. My problem isn't you thinking you're good, its you thinking you're gonna do better than people you haven't met yet...Its foolish. You would look decent for money at the lower T14, particularly NU, which places exponentially better than these options. I will repeat this one last time, you posted here to get advice from people, and the only smart advice is to reapply. You have under performed your numbers substantially because you applied late. It is not a wise decision to accept that when applications open up again in a few months, and you could go to a T14 with $.

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sublime
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby sublime » Fri May 24, 2013 1:12 am

..

moshei24
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby moshei24 » Fri May 24, 2013 1:15 am

sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:

I can't retake. I took it 3 times. And the 171 makes the difference, because it surpasses 170.


Ok. Here is more a more accurate graph, excluding ED/URM http://www.mylsn.info/h8sjv4 I had to make the GPA range 3.45 to 3.55 to get more than a handful of results. I hope that is acceptable.

And are you actually looking at the info? Or just looking for reasons not to accept it? Because the larger point does remain.


Older years are not representative of today and the odds I see there are bad, and I'm looking at it completely.

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Dmini7
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby Dmini7 » Fri May 24, 2013 1:17 am

sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:

I can't retake. I took it 3 times. And the 171 makes the difference, because it surpasses 170.


Ok. Here is more a more accurate graph, excluding ED/URM http://www.mylsn.info/h8sjv4 I had to make the GPA range 3.45 to 3.55 to get more than a handful of results. I hope that is acceptable.

And are you actually looking at the info? Or just looking for reasons not to accept it? Because the larger point does remain.



everyone is making new links. Did mine not work :( I had posted a basically identical one earlier :oops: I may have included ED though.

edit: Updating the post to try to see if linking the image works again. Also, I decided to use some lower LSAT scores to show you your chances. No ED, no URM, and waitlist are denials. You are a lock at T14 with your numbers. Look at average money from Duke and Michigan. I mean, ultimately, it is your choice. I think everyone here is just trying to demonstrate to you that you are under-performing your numbers and you would gain much more from sitting out a year.

Also one last thing directed to your comments about older years not being representative of current years. I think you are misunderstanding. You are partially correct, but for the wrong reason. Your numbers are more likely to outperform what previous years suggest. This is because of the drastic decrease in LSAT test takers, and schools refusal to decrease class sizes (if i recall correctly, its currently around a 15.9% decrease in test takers). Medians for some schools are suggested to drop. For others, they will be fighting for your 170 to keep their median. You are in a great position... it would really be wise to sit this cycle out man.

Image
Last edited by Dmini7 on Fri May 24, 2013 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LSATSCORES2012
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby LSATSCORES2012 » Fri May 24, 2013 1:26 am

I admit to trolling a bit. Be sure your volume isn't too high if you click on any of the recent mylsn links. :lol:
Last edited by LSATSCORES2012 on Fri May 24, 2013 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Clearly
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby Clearly » Fri May 24, 2013 1:26 am

moshei24 wrote:
sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:

I can't retake. I took it 3 times. And the 171 makes the difference, because it surpasses 170.


Ok. Here is more a more accurate graph, excluding ED/URM http://www.mylsn.info/h8sjv4 I had to make the GPA range 3.45 to 3.55 to get more than a handful of results. I hope that is acceptable.

And are you actually looking at the info? Or just looking for reasons not to accept it? Because the larger point does remain.


Older years are not representative of today and the odds I see there are bad, and I'm looking at it completely.


Your right, schools were MORE selective in the past. The odds are BETTER for you.

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sublime
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby sublime » Fri May 24, 2013 1:28 am

..

moshei24
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby moshei24 » Fri May 24, 2013 1:29 am

Dmini7 wrote:
sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:

I can't retake. I took it 3 times. And the 171 makes the difference, because it surpasses 170.


Ok. Here is more a more accurate graph, excluding ED/URM http://www.mylsn.info/h8sjv4 I had to make the GPA range 3.45 to 3.55 to get more than a handful of results. I hope that is acceptable.

And are you actually looking at the info? Or just looking for reasons not to accept it? Because the larger point does remain.



everyone is making new links. Did mine not work :( I had posted a basically identical one earlier :oops: I may have included ED though.

edit: Updating the post to try to see if linking the image works again. Also, I decided to use some lower LSAT scores to show you your chances. No ED, no URM, and waitlist are denials. You are a lock at T14 with your numbers. Look at average money from Duke and Michigan. I mean, ultimately, it is your choice. I think everyone here is just trying to demonstrate to you that you are under-performing your numbers and you would gain much more from sitting out a year.

Also one last thing directed to your comments about older years not being representative of current years. I think you are misunderstanding. You are partially correct, but for the wrong reason. Your numbers are more likely to outperform what previous years suggest. This is because of the drastic decrease in LSAT test takers, and schools refusal to decrease class sizes (if i recall correctly, its currently around a 15.9% decrease in test takers). Medians for some schools are suggested to drop. For others, they will be fighting for your 170 to keep their median. You are in a great position... it would really be wise to sit this cycle out man.



But is michigan worth the wait? Also, I want to do criminal defense so does that change anything?

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sublime
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby sublime » Fri May 24, 2013 1:32 am

..

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Dmini7
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby Dmini7 » Fri May 24, 2013 1:35 am

moshei24 wrote: But is michigan worth the wait? Also, I want to do criminal defense so does that change anything?



That is ultimately up to you to decide. I would say without a doubt it is. Personally though, seeing your interest in NYC, I was looking at Cornell's acceptance numbers (maybe i overlooked something earlier in this thread about not wanting to live in Ithaca). I don't know for sure how picky Cornell is with money, but you should be getting some money from them if you apply early. They have such a small class size that waiting too long will just put you in that limbo known as reserve/WL :(

moshei24
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby moshei24 » Fri May 24, 2013 1:45 am

sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:
Dmini7 wrote:[quote="sublime"

Ok. Here is more a more accurate graph, excluding ED/URM http://www.mylsn.info/h8sjv4 I had to make the GPA range 3.45 to 3.55 to get more than a handful of results. I hope that is acceptable.

And are you actually looking at the info? Or just looking for reasons not to accept it? Because the larger point does remain.



everyone is making new links. Did mine not work :( I had posted a basically identical one earlier :oops: I may have included ED though.

edit: Updating the post to try to see if linking the image works again. Also, I decided to use some lower LSAT scores to show you your chances. No ED, no URM, and waitlist are denials. You are a lock at T14 with your numbers. Look at average money from Duke and Michigan. I mean, ultimately, it is your choice. I think everyone here is just trying to demonstrate to you that you are under-performing your numbers and you would gain much more from sitting out a year.

Also one last thing directed to your comments about older years not being representative of current years. I think you are misunderstanding. You are partially correct, but for the wrong reason. Your numbers are more likely to outperform what previous years suggest. This is because of the drastic decrease in LSAT test takers, and schools refusal to decrease class sizes (if i recall correctly, its currently around a 15.9% decrease in test takers). Medians for some schools are suggested to drop. For others, they will be fighting for your 170 to keep their median. You are in a great position... it would really be wise to sit this cycle out man.



But is michigan worth the wait? Also, I want to do criminal defense so does that change anything?


This is Brooklyn: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=brooklyn

This is Fordham: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=fordham

This is Michigan: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=michigan


You tell me.[/quote]


30.5% big firm vs 43% in Michigan and the overall numbers aren't crazily different either. Does that mean that 30.5% in Fordham get big firm jobs?

Pope Francis
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby Pope Francis » Fri May 24, 2013 1:55 am

moshei24 wrote:30.5% big firm vs 43% in Michigan and the overall numbers aren't crazily different either. Does that mean that 30.5% in Fordham get big firm jobs?


It's actually 33.4% v. 51.8% (anyone who can get a federal clerkship can get a firm job and usually has one lined up for when they finish their clerkship).

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Clearly
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby Clearly » Fri May 24, 2013 1:59 am

Pope Francis wrote:
moshei24 wrote:30.5% big firm vs 43% in Michigan and the overall numbers aren't crazily different either. Does that mean that 30.5% in Fordham get big firm jobs?


It's actually 33.4% v. 51.8% (anyone who can get a federal clerkship can get a firm job and usually has one lined up for when they finish their clerkship).

And I actually question this Fordham number. Even if its accurate now, which I really don't believe from knowing people there, its unlikely to stay that high, the school dropped miles last year, and big law hiring is still low. I don't see how Fordham is justifiable if you want biglaw, you're so low on the totem pole in NY. You are competing with Columbia, NYU, and Cornell just in state, plus all the other T14 kids who want NY.

muskies970
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby muskies970 » Fri May 24, 2013 2:03 am

Op wants criminal defense, does that change anything?

moshei24
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby moshei24 » Fri May 24, 2013 2:09 am

Clearlynotstefan wrote:
Pope Francis wrote:
moshei24 wrote:30.5% big firm vs 43% in Michigan and the overall numbers aren't crazily different either. Does that mean that 30.5% in Fordham get big firm jobs?


It's actually 33.4% v. 51.8% (anyone who can get a federal clerkship can get a firm job and usually has one lined up for when they finish their clerkship).

And I actually question this Fordham number. Even if its accurate now, which I really don't believe from knowing people there, its unlikely to stay that high, the school dropped miles last year, and big law hiring is still low. I don't see how Fordham is justifiable if you want biglaw, you're so low on the totem pole in NY. You are competing with Columbia, NYU, and Cornell just in state, plus all the other T14 kids who want NY.



Actually, my ultimate goal is criminal defense. Biglaw would be rather enticing and hard to pass up, though. And also I'd have about 45-60k more loans from Michigan and that would be assuming they give me some scholarship, so do the greater numbers really make up for that?

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sublime
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby sublime » Fri May 24, 2013 2:13 am

..

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Clearly
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby Clearly » Fri May 24, 2013 2:18 am

Michigan is not going to be your only option.

moshei24
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby moshei24 » Fri May 24, 2013 2:21 am

sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:[quote

It's actually 33.4% v. 51.8% (anyone who can get a federal clerkship can get a firm job and usually has one lined up for when they finish their clerkship).

And I actually question this Fordham number. Even if its accurate now, which I really don't believe from knowing people there, its unlikely to stay that high, the school dropped miles last year, and big law hiring is still low. I don't see how Fordham is justifiable if you want biglaw, you're so low on the totem pole in NY. You are competing with Columbia, NYU, and Cornell just in state, plus all the other T14 kids who want NY.



Actually, my ultimate goal is criminal defense. Biglaw would be rather enticing and hard to pass up, though. And also I'd have about 45-60k more loans from Michigan and that would be assuming they give me some scholarship, so do the greater numbers really make up for that?


Yea, they should.

I feel you, I was set to go to a pretty good school with a very nice scholarship as recently as last week. Changing your plans is not ideal, but that does not mean that it is not a good decision.[/quote]


What happened to your plans?

moshei24
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby moshei24 » Fri May 24, 2013 2:22 am

Clearlynotstefan wrote:Michigan is not going to be your only option.



T7 seem to be 50/50 by the looks of it. It would be really nice to just get off NYU's WL. The judge I intern for adjuncts there and wrote me a letter. Same story at Columbia. That help at all?

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sublime
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby sublime » Fri May 24, 2013 2:27 am

..

moshei24
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby moshei24 » Fri May 24, 2013 2:29 am

sublime wrote:
moshei24 wrote:
What happened to your plans?


Nothing. Just a year later. I am going to work where I am for another year and try to do better on the LSAT. Turning down $$$ from WUSTL is going to hurt, but the risk of one year "wasted" pales in comparison to the possible reward.



What kind of job? And I hear that. How much do you want to improve on the LSAT?

muskies970
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby muskies970 » Fri May 24, 2013 2:30 am

moshei24 wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:Michigan is not going to be your only option.



T7 seem to be 50/50 by the looks of it. It would be really nice to just get off NYU's WL. The judge I intern for adjuncts there and wrote me a letter. Same story at Columbia. That help at all?


It could help if you ED early next cycle with a strong PS

moshei24
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby moshei24 » Fri May 24, 2013 2:41 am

muskies970 wrote:
moshei24 wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:Michigan is not going to be your only option.



T7 seem to be 50/50 by the looks of it. It would be really nice to just get off NYU's WL. The judge I intern for adjuncts there and wrote me a letter. Same story at Columbia. That help at all?


It could help if you ED early next cycle with a strong PS



I'd prob use the same topic just make it much less rusty, update it because it would be much more impressive now, and make it sound better. I like the topic. ED Columbia or NYU?

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Clearly
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Re: Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$

Postby Clearly » Fri May 24, 2013 2:44 am

moshei24 wrote:
muskies970 wrote:
moshei24 wrote:
Clearlynotstefan wrote:Michigan is not going to be your only option.



T7 seem to be 50/50 by the looks of it. It would be really nice to just get off NYU's WL. The judge I intern for adjuncts there and wrote me a letter. Same story at Columbia. That help at all?


It could help if you ED early next cycle with a strong PS



I'd prob use the same topic just make it much less rusty, update it because it would be much more impressive now, and make it sound better. I like the topic. ED Columbia or NYU?

Honestly, I suspect you're a stretch at either. I'd prob ED penn as my long shot and blanket below that.




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