Brooklyn $$$$ vs. Fordham $$ Forum

[romothesavior]

I am quoting the figures on Fordham's website. How is that "scarily inaccurate?" Even if you live on the frugal side and go to law school for 70k as opposed to the 77k figure they quote, that's still 135k after you factor in your scholarship, but BEFORE you factor in the huge interest that accumulates while in law school.

I was in your shoes 3 years ago. I had the exact same scholarship to a cheaper school in a MUCH cheaper city, and just graduated with around ~135k in law school debt. I also worked for two years while in law school to help keep expenses down, had a roommate my first two years, and used a portion of my 2L summer associate money to avoid taking out extra loans. It is very, VERY easy to 1) wildly underestimate your expenses while in law school, 2) wildly overestimate your ability to live frugally (do you plan on having friends? a girlfriend? going out to eat? living an even remotely normal lifestyle in New York?), and 3) not account for the accumulation of interest while in school. How do I know? Because I made the mistake 3 years ago, and I'm not about 25k further into debt than I anticipated. It's important to be realistic and understand how this stuff works.

Your numbers are laughable. $500 a month for rent and $150 for food? In New York City? Are you Charlie Kelly or something? Do you plan on living with a 60 year old retiree, eating nothing but eggs you find under a bridge, boiling your denim instead of buying clothes, and playing "nightcrawlers" as your only form of entertainment? I'm all for trying to set up a frugal budget as a 1L, but if I was a betting man, I'd put your over/under on 1L living expenses at around 20k and take the over.

[moshei24]

I am quoting the figures on Fordham's website. How is that "scarily inaccurate?" Even if you live on the frugal side and go to law school for 70k as opposed to the 77k figure they quote, that's still 135k after you factor in your scholarship, but BEFORE you factor in the huge interest that accumulates while in law school.

I was in your shoes 3 years ago. I had the exact same scholarship to a cheaper school in a MUCH cheaper city, and just graduated with around ~135k in law school debt. I also worked for two years while in law school to help keep expenses down, had a roommate my first two years, and used a portion of my 2L summer associate money to avoid taking out extra loans. It is very, VERY easy to 1) wildly underestimate your expenses while in law school, 2) wildly overestimate your ability to live frugally (do you plan on having friends? a girlfriend? going out to eat? living an even remotely normal lifestyle in New York?), and 3) not account for the accumulation of interest while in school. How do I know? Because I made the mistake 3 years ago, and I'm not about 25k further into debt than I anticipated. It's important to be realistic and understand how this stuff works.

Your numbers are laughable. $500 a month for rent and $150 for food? In New York City? Are you Charlie Kelly or something? Do you plan on living with a 60 year old retiree, eating nothing but eggs you find under a bridge, boiling your denim instead of buying clothes, and playing "nightcrawlers" as your only form of entertainment? I'm all for trying to set up a frugal budget as a 1L, but if I was a betting man, I'd put your over/under on 1L living expenses at around 20k and take the over.

I think you're missing that I have lived in NY my entire life. I know how living expense are here. I have also been living in the city for the past 4 years. 550 a month is very common, and yes 150 a month on food is possible if I mooch from my house when I go home on weekends. But we could push that to 225 if you'd like. The only number I have yet to factor is the monthly metrocard which adds 112 a month. My mistake. And my girlfriend is very okay with not going out often while I'm in law school. I'm making up for that now when I have a steady income. I'd put the over/under for living expenses at 12,000 tops and take the under. I know my city very well and know how to live enjoyably and cost efficiently. I've been doing it for awhile now.

[jas1503]

Ugh... Do you understand how compounding interest at 6.8%~7.9% works?

Also, $150 a month for food? Do you eat nothing but cereal and ramen?

I would guess that the OP is a freegan who occasionally splurges.

When you're family lives nearby, it's not hard to have food. I made clear that I'm from NY many times. Read, buddy, read.

Why was I supposed to assume that you eat a bulk of your meals with your family? I live in NY and I have family nearby but I pay for my own food.

Mooching off others is a virtue...

The fact that you don't saddle your parents with your food bill is just too weird.

[NanaP]

I am quoting the figures on Fordham's website. How is that "scarily inaccurate?" Even if you live on the frugal side and go to law school for 70k as opposed to the 77k figure they quote, that's still 135k after you factor in your scholarship, but BEFORE you factor in the huge interest that accumulates while in law school.

I was in your shoes 3 years ago. I had the exact same scholarship to a cheaper school in a MUCH cheaper city, and just graduated with around ~135k in law school debt. I also worked for two years while in law school to help keep expenses down, had a roommate my first two years, and used a portion of my 2L summer associate money to avoid taking out extra loans. It is very, VERY easy to 1) wildly underestimate your expenses while in law school, 2) wildly overestimate your ability to live frugally (do you plan on having friends? a girlfriend? going out to eat? living an even remotely normal lifestyle in New York?), and 3) not account for the accumulation of interest while in school. How do I know? Because I made the mistake 3 years ago, and I'm not about 25k further into debt than I anticipated. It's important to be realistic and understand how this stuff works.

Your numbers are laughable. $500 a month for rent and $150 for food? In New York City? Are you Charlie Kelly or something? Do you plan on living with a 60 year old retiree, eating nothing but eggs you find under a bridge, boiling your denim instead of buying clothes, and playing "nightcrawlers" as your only form of entertainment? I'm all for trying to set up a frugal budget as a 1L, but if I was a betting man, I'd put your over/under on 1L living expenses at around 20k and take the over.

I think you're missing that I have lived in NY my entire life. I know how living expense are here. I have also been living in the city for the past 4 years. 550 a month is very common, and yes 150 a month on food is possible if I mooch from my house when I go home on weekends. But we could push that to 225 if you'd like. The only number I have yet to factor is the monthly metrocard which adds 112 a month. My mistake. And my girlfriend is very okay with not going out often while I'm in law school. I'm making up for that now when I have a steady income. I'd put the over/under for living expenses at 12,000 tops and take the under. I know my city very well and know how to live enjoyably and cost efficiently. I've been doing it for awhile now.

I grew up in NY. You're only option at that price would be to commute from the BX, maybe BRKLYN, or have a roommate....and, live in the hood. I have no idea where you will find a place for 550, but it's not Manhattan.

[20141023]

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[beepboopbeep]

I grew up in NY. You're only option at that price would be to commute from the BX, maybe BRKLYN, or have a roommate....and, live in the hood. I have no idea where you will find a place for 550, but it's not Manhattan.

Maybe one of these? --LinkRemoved--

[Ramsey]

What you're saying is scarily unaccurate. I suggest you do more research. I'll say it again - I'm a native NYer; I know what cost of living is here. 500-600 a month will give you a decent sized room in a nice apartment. Plus 100-150 for food each month comes to let's say 750/month food and shelter. That's 9K a year plus whatever books you need. Like I said 10-15K is a good estimate.

Just curious - where do you find such a bargain???? I went to Columbia for undergrad and never had such luck of scoring a decent room for 500-600 a month (are you also counting in the utilities?) within walking distance of my school, and Fordham is in a more expensive neighborhood. And that was a while ago. Such a price may be possible if I venture further up to the 'hood or out to one of the other boroughs, but then daily commuting will cost another 120+, notwithstanding the safety issue (you might want to stay at the library till late) and time lost.

Or maybe your definition of "decent-sized" room in a "nice" apartment is vastly different from mine..

[muskies970]

Brooklyn offered me 45K a year with frozen tuition. Fordham offered me 25K a year without frozen tuition. Both condition are easily maintainable, so I'm not even taking that into consideration.

Just for shits and giggles, can you tell us the conditions for both schools? It may not be as easily maintainable as you suspect.

BTW don't be a dick when others are trying to give you practical advice and you happen to be a special snowflake who is smart enough to live off of under 800 a month in NYC but made the mistake of applying SUPER late to the most important decision of your life and are left with the shittiest of options possible.

[20141023]

.

[moshei24]

I am quoting the figures on Fordham's website. How is that "scarily inaccurate?" Even if you live on the frugal side and go to law school for 70k as opposed to the 77k figure they quote, that's still 135k after you factor in your scholarship, but BEFORE you factor in the huge interest that accumulates while in law school.

I was in your shoes 3 years ago. I had the exact same scholarship to a cheaper school in a MUCH cheaper city, and just graduated with around ~135k in law school debt. I also worked for two years while in law school to help keep expenses down, had a roommate my first two years, and used a portion of my 2L summer associate money to avoid taking out extra loans. It is very, VERY easy to 1) wildly underestimate your expenses while in law school, 2) wildly overestimate your ability to live frugally (do you plan on having friends? a girlfriend? going out to eat? living an even remotely normal lifestyle in New York?), and 3) not account for the accumulation of interest while in school. How do I know? Because I made the mistake 3 years ago, and I'm not about 25k further into debt than I anticipated. It's important to be realistic and understand how this stuff works.

Your numbers are laughable. $500 a month for rent and $150 for food? In New York City? Are you Charlie Kelly or something? Do you plan on living with a 60 year old retiree, eating nothing but eggs you find under a bridge, boiling your denim instead of buying clothes, and playing "nightcrawlers" as your only form of entertainment? I'm all for trying to set up a frugal budget as a 1L, but if I was a betting man, I'd put your over/under on 1L living expenses at around 20k and take the over.

I think you're missing that I have lived in NY my entire life. I know how living expense are here. I have also been living in the city for the past 4 years. 550 a month is very common, and yes 150 a month on food is possible if I mooch from my house when I go home on weekends. But we could push that to 225 if you'd like. The only number I have yet to factor is the monthly metrocard which adds 112 a month. My mistake. And my girlfriend is very okay with not going out often while I'm in law school. I'm making up for that now when I have a steady income. I'd put the over/under for living expenses at 12,000 tops and take the under. I know my city very well and know how to live enjoyably and cost efficiently. I've been doing it for awhile now.

I grew up in NY. You're only option at that price would be to commute from the BX, maybe BRKLYN, or have a roommate....and, live in the hood. I have no idea where you will find a place for 550, but it's not Manhattan.

There are places cheaper than that in Washington heights which is manhattan and which are in good locations. Fact. Do some research.

[NanaP]

Brooklyn offered me 45K a year with frozen tuition. Fordham offered me 25K a year without frozen tuition. Both condition are easily maintainable, so I'm not even taking that into consideration.

Just for shits and giggles, can you tell us the conditions for both schools? It may not be as easily maintainable as you suspect.

BTW don't be a dick when others are trying to give you practical advice and you happen to be a special snowflake who is smart enough to live off of under 800 a month in NYC but made the mistake of applying SUPER late to the most important decision of your life and are left with the shittiest of options possible.

Ok, I'll bite. You should go to Fordham, but realize that your estimated cost is probably on the conservative side. Also, if you have stips (have to maintain 3.0 ect) you could lose your scholly money, ask if you can have the stips removed. Enjoy Fordham, it's not a bad choice for NY.

[muskies970]

Also, just to make sure you understand the whole interest thing, let's underestimate your cost of attending law school for all three years at around $100,000. If you end up getting stuck with federal loans instead of borrowing from relatives, you will only be able to take out up to $20,500 each year in Direct Unsubsidized Loans (6.8% interest); everything over that amount will have to come from Direct PLUS Loans (7.9% interest). To make things simple, though, let's say that you're looking at $100,000 in debt at just the 6.8% rate. Each month, any unpaid interest you have will capitalize, and interest will be charged against the new principal balance at a monthly rate of 0.57% (6.8% / 12 months). Assuming that you're making payments of $16,667 ($100,000 / 3 years / 2 semesters) every 6 months, you would have accrued $12,788 in interest alone during the 3 years you're in law school.

Using Gtown's financial aid calculator it's actually closer to $16,000.

[muskies970]

Brooklyn offered me 45K a year with frozen tuition. Fordham offered me 25K a year without frozen tuition. Both condition are easily maintainable, so I'm not even taking that into consideration.

Just for shits and giggles, can you tell us the conditions for both schools? It may not be as easily maintainable as you suspect.

BTW don't be a dick when others are trying to give you practical advice and you happen to be a special snowflake who is smart enough to live off of under 800 a month in NYC but made the mistake of applying SUPER late to the most important decision of your life and are left with the shittiest of options possible.

Ok, I'll bite. You should go to Fordham, but realize that your estimated cost is probably on the conservative side. Also, if you have stips (have to maintain 3.0 ect) you could lose your scholly money, ask if you can have the stips removed. Enjoy Fordham, it's not a bad choice for NY.

It's a terrible choice considering OP has a 170 and 3.49 Gpa...

[NanaP]

I am quoting the figures on Fordham's website. How is that "scarily inaccurate?" Even if you live on the frugal side and go to law school for 70k as opposed to the 77k figure they quote, that's still 135k after you factor in your scholarship, but BEFORE you factor in the huge interest that accumulates while in law school.

I was in your shoes 3 years ago. I had the exact same scholarship to a cheaper school in a MUCH cheaper city, and just graduated with around ~135k in law school debt. I also worked for two years while in law school to help keep expenses down, had a roommate my first two years, and used a portion of my 2L summer associate money to avoid taking out extra loans. It is very, VERY easy to 1) wildly underestimate your expenses while in law school, 2) wildly overestimate your ability to live frugally (do you plan on having friends? a girlfriend? going out to eat? living an even remotely normal lifestyle in New York?), and 3) not account for the accumulation of interest while in school. How do I know? Because I made the mistake 3 years ago, and I'm not about 25k further into debt than I anticipated. It's important to be realistic and understand how this stuff works.

Your numbers are laughable. $500 a month for rent and $150 for food? In New York City? Are you Charlie Kelly or something? Do you plan on living with a 60 year old retiree, eating nothing but eggs you find under a bridge, boiling your denim instead of buying clothes, and playing "nightcrawlers" as your only form of entertainment? I'm all for trying to set up a frugal budget as a 1L, but if I was a betting man, I'd put your over/under on 1L living expenses at around 20k and take the over.

I think you're missing that I have lived in NY my entire life. I know how living expense are here. I have also been living in the city for the past 4 years. 550 a month is very common, and yes 150 a month on food is possible if I mooch from my house when I go home on weekends. But we could push that to 225 if you'd like. The only number I have yet to factor is the monthly metrocard which adds 112 a month. My mistake. And my girlfriend is very okay with not going out often while I'm in law school. I'm making up for that now when I have a steady income. I'd put the over/under for living expenses at 12,000 tops and take the under. I know my city very well and know how to live enjoyably and cost efficiently. I've been doing it for awhile now.

I grew up in NY. You're only option at that price would be to commute from the BX, maybe BRKLYN, or have a roommate....and, live in the hood. I have no idea where you will find a place for 550, but it's not Manhattan.

There are places cheaper than that in Washington heights which is manhattan and which are in good locations. Fact. Do some research.

Right, the hood, with subsidized housing, which are really hard to get, next to impossible even, unless you already live there, then I think you're fine....you do some research

[NanaP]

Brooklyn offered me 45K a year with frozen tuition. Fordham offered me 25K a year without frozen tuition. Both condition are easily maintainable, so I'm not even taking that into consideration.

Just for shits and giggles, can you tell us the conditions for both schools? It may not be as easily maintainable as you suspect.

BTW don't be a dick when others are trying to give you practical advice and you happen to be a special snowflake who is smart enough to live off of under 800 a month in NYC but made the mistake of applying SUPER late to the most important decision of your life and are left with the shittiest of options possible.

Ok, I'll bite. You should go to Fordham, but realize that your estimated cost is probably on the conservative side. Also, if you have stips (have to maintain 3.0 ect) you could lose your scholly money, ask if you can have the stips removed. Enjoy Fordham, it's not a bad choice for NY.

It's a terrible choice considering OP has a 170 and 3.49 Gpa...

You're right, I skipped that part. In that case decline all offers and reapply next year early.

[francesfarmer]

There are places cheaper than that in Washington heights which is manhattan and which are in good locations. Fact. Do some research.

Subletting a room for that cheap in Washington Heights is possible but I think you're overstating things by referring to the area as a "good location." Maybe near the medical center is OK but the rest is kind of a shithole.

Why don't you just live with your parents?

[20141023]

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[muskies970]

True. OP could easily grab some of the lower T14 with those numbers; OP has a decent chance at GULC, Cornell, UVA, Michigan, NU, and Duke, with Penn and Berkeley being reaches, CCN being major stretches and HYS probably out of the picture.

I completely agree. Someone just got off the NYU waitlist with a 170 3.4.

OP you should DEFINITELY reapply, ED NYU (especially since you can live so frugally so sticker wouldn't even be that bad) the first day applications come out, and hopefully profit. If not you definitely have good shots at all the schools Regulus stated.

[moshei24]

Brooklyn offered me 45K a year with frozen tuition. Fordham offered me 25K a year without frozen tuition. Both condition are easily maintainable, so I'm not even taking that into consideration.

Just for shits and giggles, can you tell us the conditions for both schools? It may not be as easily maintainable as you suspect.

BTW don't be a dick when others are trying to give you practical advice and you happen to be a special snowflake who is smart enough to live off of under 800 a month in NYC but made the mistake of applying SUPER late to the most important decision of your life and are left with the shittiest of options possible.

Good standing and top 80% of class.

Also, I live here so I'm not sure why you're arguing with me about cost. Mistake? That was things panned out with everything. Things didn't go exactly how I planned. It happens.
And I dislike when people try to tell me what's facts about NYC when I'm the one who lives here. 900/month is very doable unless you plan on constantly splurging.

And most people who's family lives in NYC go home on weekends. Who on this thread actually lives in NYC? Because I feel like in wasting my time arguing with people who are from out of town.

Thank you everyone for your input and have a wonderful day. I gotta go.

[moshei24]

Also, just to make sure you understand the whole interest thing, let's underestimate your cost of attending law school for all three years at around $100,000. If you end up getting stuck with federal loans instead of borrowing from relatives, you will only be able to take out up to $20,500 each year in Direct Unsubsidized Loans (6.8% interest); everything over that amount will have to come from Direct PLUS Loans (7.9% interest). To make things simple, though, let's say that you're looking at $100,000 in debt at just the 6.8% rate. Each month, any unpaid interest you have will capitalize, and interest will be charged against the new principal balance at a monthly rate of 0.57% (6.8% / 12 months). Assuming that you're making payments of $16,667 ($100,000 / 3 years / 2 semesters) every 6 months, you would have accrued $12,788 in interest alone during the 3 years you're in law school.

Using Gtown's financial aid calculator it's actually closer to $16,000.

Pretty sure that was my estimate.

[jas1503]

good luck

[muskies970]

Also, just to make sure you understand the whole interest thing, let's underestimate your cost of attending law school for all three years at around $100,000. If you end up getting stuck with federal loans instead of borrowing from relatives, you will only be able to take out up to $20,500 each year in Direct Unsubsidized Loans (6.8% interest); everything over that amount will have to come from Direct PLUS Loans (7.9% interest). To make things simple, though, let's say that you're looking at $100,000 in debt at just the 6.8% rate. Each month, any unpaid interest you have will capitalize, and interest will be charged against the new principal balance at a monthly rate of 0.57% (6.8% / 12 months). Assuming that you're making payments of $16,667 ($100,000 / 3 years / 2 semesters) every 6 months, you would have accrued $12,788 in interest alone during the 3 years you're in law school.

Using Gtown's financial aid calculator it's actually closer to $16,000.

Pretty sure that was my estimate.

Right, so if you have 120k in loans (at best) and then closer to 20,000 in interst, you'll be at 140k which is basically the same as the 150k Romo told you in the beginning. Thus you're wrong.

[moshei24]

There are places cheaper than that in Washington heights which is manhattan and which are in good locations. Fact. Do some research.

Subletting a room for that cheap in Washington Heights is possible but I think you're overstating things by referring to the area as a "good location." Maybe near the medical center is OK but the rest is kind of a shithole.

Why don't you just live with your parents?

I've lived there for the last 4 years. It's a nice area with my undergrad right there. It's not at all dangerous or "the hood."

[romothesavior]

I'm mighty impressed. The cheapest I ever spent a month in St. Louis on rent + utilities + food was maaaaybe $1000 during 1L finals period or something ($500 rent + $100 utilities + $200 groceries + $200 on drinks and dining out, including my campus card). I should move to NYC, sounds like its more reasonable there.

[moshei24]

Also, just to make sure you understand the whole interest thing, let's underestimate your cost of attending law school for all three years at around $100,000. If you end up getting stuck with federal loans instead of borrowing from relatives, you will only be able to take out up to $20,500 each year in Direct Unsubsidized Loans (6.8% interest); everything over that amount will have to come from Direct PLUS Loans (7.9% interest). To make things simple, though, let's say that you're looking at $100,000 in debt at just the 6.8% rate. Each month, any unpaid interest you have will capitalize, and interest will be charged against the new principal balance at a monthly rate of 0.57% (6.8% / 12 months). Assuming that you're making payments of $16,667 ($100,000 / 3 years / 2 semesters) every 6 months, you would have accrued $12,788 in interest alone during the 3 years you're in law school.

Using Gtown's financial aid calculator it's actually closer to $16,000.

Pretty sure that was my estimate.

Right, so if you have 120k in loans (at best) and then closer to 20,000 in interst, you'll be at 140k which is basically the same as the 150k Romo told you in the beginning. Thus you're wrong.

120k is the high end and that would be 136, so 135 if you want to round, far off from his estimate. Plus I might take loans from fam without interest or get some support from fam like I said before.