I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
Mal Reynolds
Posts: 12630
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:16 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue May 14, 2013 8:47 pm

WokeUpInACar wrote:(LSN profile: "I can't wait to attend school next year, the studying doesn't bother me :)")


(Won't spend time studying to retake the LSAT)


LOL nice find.

User avatar
red52
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:28 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby red52 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:50 pm

WokeUpInACar wrote:(LSN profile: "I can't wait to attend school next year, the studying doesn't bother me :)")


(Won't spend time studying to retake the LSAT)



Maybe I don't care to go t14 like half the keyboard warriors in this forum? And maybe taking a year off isn't an option for me.

"Go to a t14 school or you'll default on your loans working at wal-mart"

Ok.


This forum has gone full potato
Last edited by red52 on Tue May 14, 2013 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mal Reynolds
Posts: 12630
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:16 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue May 14, 2013 8:52 pm

red52 wrote:And maybe taking a year off isn't an option for me.


Sure it is. You just don't want it to be.

User avatar
WokeUpInACar
Posts: 5513
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:11 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby WokeUpInACar » Tue May 14, 2013 8:52 pm

red52 wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:(LSN profile: "I can't wait to attend school next year, the studying doesn't bother me :)")


(Won't spend time studying to retake the LSAT)



Maybe I don't care to go t14 like half the keyboard warriors in this forum? And maybe taking a year off isn't an option for me.

LOLOL. Yeah I'm sure you'd just rather not go to a top school right? Also people on this forum have taken a year off to work retail or at Starbucks while retaking so I'm pretty sure there is not a single scenario where it literally isn't an option unless you have a terminal disease.

User avatar
red52
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:28 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby red52 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:54 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:
red52 wrote:And maybe taking a year off isn't an option for me.


Sure it is. You just don't want it to be.



I'm not going to reveal details about my personal life, but it really isn't.

User avatar
Ruxin1
Posts: 1284
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:56 pm

red52 wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:(LSN profile: "I can't wait to attend school next year, the studying doesn't bother me :)")


(Won't spend time studying to retake the LSAT)



Maybe I don't care to go t14 like half the keyboard warriors in this forum? And maybe taking a year off isn't an option for me.

"Go to a t14 school or you'll default on your loans working at wal-mart"

Ok.


This forum has gone full potato


Dumbass, I'm going to my state's flagship. Why? Because I only want to work in my home state. There is utterly no other reason to go to that level of school otherwise, so think about that for awhile. These people are trying to help you.

Mal Reynolds
Posts: 12630
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:16 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue May 14, 2013 8:57 pm

red52 wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
red52 wrote:And maybe taking a year off isn't an option for me.


Sure it is. You just don't want it to be.



I'm not going to reveal details about my personal life, but it really isn't.


Well then good luck at UNC. But start changing your geographical preferences now. You are not getting to where you want to be from this school.

User avatar
patrickd139
Posts: 2883
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:53 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby patrickd139 » Tue May 14, 2013 8:59 pm

red52: Where are your ties? I see from your lsn page that it says you're in LA right now. That's one tie. Where are the others? (birthplace, alma mater, places you've lived in for significant periods of time, places where your immediate family or spouse lives, etc.)

User avatar
WokeUpInACar
Posts: 5513
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:11 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby WokeUpInACar » Tue May 14, 2013 9:01 pm

*ring ring*

"Hello, this is college football star red52"

"Hi this is Duke Law, we'd love to have you at our school in the fall"

"Duke? No thanks pal. I'm going to UNC so I can avoid all of those nerdy keyboard warriors"

Seems likely

User avatar
red52
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:28 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby red52 » Tue May 14, 2013 9:10 pm

Ruxin1 wrote:
red52 wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:(LSN profile: "I can't wait to attend school next year, the studying doesn't bother me :)")


(Won't spend time studying to retake the LSAT)



Maybe I don't care to go t14 like half the keyboard warriors in this forum? And maybe taking a year off isn't an option for me.

"Go to a t14 school or you'll default on your loans working at wal-mart"

Ok.


This forum has gone full potato


Dumbass, I'm going to my state's flagship. Why? Because I only want to work in my home state. There is utterly no other reason to go to that level of school otherwise, so think about that for awhile. These people are trying to help you.


They have given some backhanded advice through their bullshit. But that aside I've read nothing but elitist trash.

I didn't ask for advice through the goals of someone attending a top school looking to enter big law. I asked for specific advice in a specific situation, I did not outline goals, my past, or anything about myself. I repeatedly read "you won't accomplish X by going to Y school." Yet, I don't even remember typing out anything I wanted to accomplish in this thread.


The only valuable piece of advice I have received in this thread is that it will be hard to find a city job at UNC. I understand that, thanks. But trolls like WokeUpInACar think that they know something about what I want in life are sadly mistaken. To me, big law isn't even an option. I don't want that. So HYS/top 14 school isn't necessary.

Thanks for the advice, but for future reference, when someone asks a question they may want something else than what you want (this isn't necessarily directed at who I quoted). They may have different goals, and might be looking at law school from a different perspective. I get the elitist mentality of this forum, but honestly, bashing people who aren't at Harvard is arrogant at best.

Maybe Cardozo is the better choice, given that I love the city. I don't need to hear the routine "retake or bust" bullshit to get that through my head though.

User avatar
red52
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:28 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby red52 » Tue May 14, 2013 9:15 pm

patrickd139 wrote:red52: Where are your ties? I see from your lsn page that it says you're in LA right now. That's one tie. Where are the others? (birthplace, alma mater, places you've lived in for significant periods of time, places where your immediate family or spouse lives, etc.)



I pmed you. I'd rather not talk about details on an open forum, just because it makes me feel uncomfortable.

Mal Reynolds
Posts: 12630
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:16 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby Mal Reynolds » Tue May 14, 2013 9:15 pm

Advice on which schools to attend is entirely dependent on your goals. You can't parse the two as easily as you think.

User avatar
WokeUpInACar
Posts: 5513
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:11 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby WokeUpInACar » Tue May 14, 2013 9:15 pm

red52 wrote:
Ruxin1 wrote:
red52 wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:(LSN profile: "I can't wait to attend school next year, the studying doesn't bother me :)")


(Won't spend time studying to retake the LSAT)



Maybe I don't care to go t14 like half the keyboard warriors in this forum? And maybe taking a year off isn't an option for me.

"Go to a t14 school or you'll default on your loans working at wal-mart"

Ok.


This forum has gone full potato


Dumbass, I'm going to my state's flagship. Why? Because I only want to work in my home state. There is utterly no other reason to go to that level of school otherwise, so think about that for awhile. These people are trying to help you.


They have given some backhanded advice through their bullshit. But that aside I've read nothing but elitist trash.

I didn't ask for advice through the goals of someone attending a top school looking to enter big law. I asked for specific advice in a specific situation, I did not outline goals, my past, or anything about myself. I repeatedly read "you won't accomplish X by going to Y school." Yet, I don't even remember typing out anything I wanted to accomplish in this thread.


The only valuable piece of advice I have received in this thread is that it will be hard to find a city job at UNC. I understand that, thanks. But trolls like WokeUpInACar think that they know something about what I want in life are sadly mistaken. To me, big law isn't even an option. I don't want that. So HYS/top 14 school isn't necessary.

Thanks for the advice, but for future reference, when someone asks a question they may want something else than what you want (this isn't necessarily directed at who I quoted). They may have different goals, and might be looking at law school from a different perspective. I get the elitist mentality of this forum, but honestly, bashing people who aren't at Harvard is arrogant at best.

Maybe Cardozo is the better choice, given that I love the city. I don't need to hear the routine "retake or bust" bullshit to get that through my head though.

No one here thinks Biglaw or t14 is the only way to go, and people are routinely advised to attend lower-ranked regional schools in areas they want to practice with scholarships instead of paying tons to attend a t14. It is not elitist, it is knowing that IF you do pay those prices for these schools, you WILL HAVE TO GET BIGLAW TO PAY OFF YOUR DEBT, and obviously your chances of that are very poor. Everyone told you to minimize your debt and attend school where you want to practice, SO ELITIST.

Edit: I WAS making an assumption about your life in that I assumed after attending law school you would like to obtain a job as a lawyer and not be in crippling debt. My bad if that was inaccurate.

User avatar
red52
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:28 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby red52 » Tue May 14, 2013 9:20 pm

WokeUpInACar wrote:No one here thinks Biglaw or t14 is the only way to go, and people are routinely advised to attend lower-ranked regional schools in areas they want to practice with scholarships instead of paying tons to attend a t14. It is not elitist, it is knowing that IF you do pay those prices for these schools, you WILL HAVE TO GET BIGLAW TO PAY OFF YOUR DEBT, and obviously your chances of that are very poor. Everyone told you to minimize your debt and attend school where you want to practice, SO ELITIST.

Edit: I WAS making an assumption about your life in that I assumed after attending law school you would like to obtain a job as a lawyer and not be in crippling debt. My bad if that was inaccurate.


That isn't what was said when the argument started. The exact quote that started this was "You shouldn't be going to either of those school with your goals."

I'm not talking to anyone who gave me the advice "minimize your debt and attend school where you want to practice." I'm talking specifically to those who made assumptions.

User avatar
red52
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:28 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby red52 » Tue May 14, 2013 9:22 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:Advice on which schools to attend is entirely dependent on your goals. You can't parse the two as easily as you think.


I guess as of now I don't have many super specific practicing goals other than the area in which I want to live and some general interests I'd like to explore with the law. I really do like public interest though, maybe that.. Like I said though, not sure.

User avatar
WokeUpInACar
Posts: 5513
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 11:11 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby WokeUpInACar » Tue May 14, 2013 9:28 pm

red52 wrote:
WokeUpInACar wrote:No one here thinks Biglaw or t14 is the only way to go, and people are routinely advised to attend lower-ranked regional schools in areas they want to practice with scholarships instead of paying tons to attend a t14. It is not elitist, it is knowing that IF you do pay those prices for these schools, you WILL HAVE TO GET BIGLAW TO PAY OFF YOUR DEBT, and obviously your chances of that are very poor. Everyone told you to minimize your debt and attend school where you want to practice, SO ELITIST.

Edit: I WAS making an assumption about your life in that I assumed after attending law school you would like to obtain a job as a lawyer and not be in crippling debt. My bad if that was inaccurate.


That isn't what was said when the argument started. The exact quote that started this was "You shouldn't be going to either of those school with your goals."

I'm not talking to anyone who gave me the advice "minimize your debt and attend school where you want to practice." I'm talking specifically to those who made assumptions.

The only modification I would make to that is: "You shouldn't be going to either of those schools with your goals without enormous scholarships." I'm just trying to tell you that it would be infinitely easier to massively improve your chances of having a successful career by retaking the LSAT than it will be to be in the top 20% of your class (which you will need to have a good chance of getting a decent job) at these schools. You have convinced yourself that you don't WANT to attend a good school because it would be easy and comfortable to forgo retaking the LSAT and just head straight to law school in the fall. People here are genuinely trying to keep you from making a horrible decision that could legitimately ruin your life.

User avatar
patrickd139
Posts: 2883
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:53 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby patrickd139 » Tue May 14, 2013 10:35 pm

red52 wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:red52: Where are your ties? I see from your lsn page that it says you're in LA right now. That's one tie. Where are the others? (birthplace, alma mater, places you've lived in for significant periods of time, places where your immediate family or spouse lives, etc.)



I pmed you. I'd rather not talk about details on an open forum, just because it makes me feel uncomfortable.

I replied. But fwiw, you're probably not going to like the answer, as it's just a more tailored application of the broad concepts we've been discussing ITT. GL.

BigZuck
Posts: 10855
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby BigZuck » Tue May 14, 2013 11:22 pm

If I had the aspirations you elucidated here and these were my only two choices I would not go to law school.

Also if I read between the lines correctly it sounds like both schools are too expensive.

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4165
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby Clearly » Wed May 15, 2013 3:04 am

Dude, chill out. You came on here and asked for advice and you're getting it. Also, you expressed preferences, then when people used those in giving the advice, you shifted the focus to the "I don't know" part... Here's the secret to the forum...Whether you want biglaw or not, whether you want this city or that, the economically right thing (and thus the advice you will get) is to crush the LSAT regardless. Why you ask? Because to get biglaw you need to go to a great school and thus crush the LSAT, while on the other hand, for a not great school to be a financially sound decision without ruining you, you have to have a strong enough application to get substantial schollys, and thus crush the LSAT (or be AA/MA). Any plan to improve your situation after the fact (transfer, be in top 10% etc) is much further out of the range of your control then retaking the LSAT is, and thus your best bet at a better future often lies in the value of a retake. I know its easy to mistake it as elitism, or people being jerks, but the reality of the situation is that the advice being given out is absurdly accurate based on current job data, and these people are looking out for your well being. Neither school is a good bet for ANY legal job in a major city. UNC places average, but isn't in a city and has next to no reach. Cardozo places poorly and is in the most saturated legal (or anything) market in the world. Plus Cardozo has stips on scholarships and statistically a significant portion of the class will lose them. These people are utterly fucked. Because of this of the two your better bet is likely UNC, work your ass off and gun for PI/local work. You have very little chance to get to NY or any other major city from there with a job lined up, but at least you can end up with a reasonable chance at a job at all. Do you have any loans prior to Oct 2007?

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15409
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby sublime » Wed May 15, 2013 3:48 am

..

User avatar
stuckinthemiddle
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:24 am

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby stuckinthemiddle » Wed May 15, 2013 3:51 am

OP, do you understand the following:

The chances of getting a corporate law gig out of either of these schools is low.
The chances of getting an international law gig out of either of these schools is next to impossible.
The chances of working in government out of either of these schools is low.
The chances of getting a quality PI gig out of either of these schools is low.
The chances of finding work in a big city (even NY) out of either of these schools is low.
Most importantly, if you're not sure what you want to do, you need to go to a higher ranked school so that you have more options after graduation. Your current options will restrict you IMMENSELY.

That's literally everything you mentioned about your goals, unless you'd like to add something else. If you go to UNC you should expect nothing except lower-paying work within the state. If you attend Cardozo, you will most likely find yourself in document review.

No one is making any assumptions. You stated your interests and people are pointing out that they are unlikely from either school. Please retake, OP.
Last edited by stuckinthemiddle on Wed May 15, 2013 4:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
sublime
Posts: 15409
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby sublime » Wed May 15, 2013 3:59 am

..

User avatar
buddyt
Posts: 773
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:59 pm

Re: I'm split. Advice greatly appreciated

Postby buddyt » Wed May 15, 2013 2:21 pm

red52 wrote:Where would I like to practice? A big city for sure. LA, NY, DC, all options I consider extremely viable

red52 wrote:As far as where I want to practice, for me it's big city or government or bust. I want DC, NYC, LA, Chi, Boston... etc, something like that.

Everyone ITT is right. If you want to work in a big city, and your options are Cardozo and UNC, then obviously only one of those satisfies that goal. However, only half of Cardozo graduates are able to get any kind of legal job at all, and at that point you will have $200k in debt and no way of paying it back. That is life-ruining.

UNC graduates have a 2 in 3 chance of getting a job, which isn't bad, and they place well in NC. This isn't a bad choice if you are OK with working in NC and you can keep your debt manageable. Looks like 3-year COA for UNC (assuming one year OOS and two years in-state) will be around $130k, which means you will not be able to keep your debt manageable if you pay sticker (and you probably will since they just took you off the waitlist).

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cardozo
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=unc

/thread




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 0LawSchool and 5 guests