Advice please? T14 or T50?

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Hoosier574
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Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby Hoosier574 » Sat May 11, 2013 6:35 pm

Hello everyone! I hope to make this post as brief as possible, but I have a lot of questions to be answered (so thank you in advance for your time). I suppose my main question, which is quite broad, is regarding how logical it would be for me to get into a decent law school. I've browsed the forums for a few months, but I figured posting would be the most effective method at this point. Basically, I was a mediocre college student and it took me 5.5 years to get my degree. I had an undiagnosed medical condition that kept me from reaching my potential and I held at least one part time job throughout college. I was medicated for the last two years and my GPA substantially increased. I just graduated and ended up with a 3.35 for my Jr./Sr. terms (which were nearly all upper level core classes at 16 cr./semester). However, my overall GPA ended up just above 2.9. I never really considered continuing my education until I turned things around, so I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to this field of study. I've taken a few practice LSAT exams and scored around 164-169 (timed). I've heard that 1st generation college graduates receive more leniency and I'm also hoping my strong references work well.

So I guess my questions were...
Is a top tier school possible at this point?
Should I take time off to get work experience and then apply to distance myself from my GPA?

Okay, so 2 questions weren’t really that many, but I'm sure I'm forgetting some.
Last edited by Hoosier574 on Sat May 11, 2013 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ded Precedent
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby Ded Precedent » Sat May 11, 2013 6:39 pm

Law schools could give a fuck about your story or your letters of recommendation. Those things only matter if you're right on the verge numbers wise. Check out lawschoolnumbers.com to get an idea of where you have a chance and study like a raging aspie for the LSAT.

Good luck.

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Bronck
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby Bronck » Sat May 11, 2013 6:40 pm

Get a score in the 170s, apply to NU/UVA (and any other extreme splitter schools I'm missing) and profit. Just know that you'll likely be paying close to sticker or sticker.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby Micdiddy » Sat May 11, 2013 6:50 pm

URM?

Agree with above. Study A LOT from now until October. Do not be lazy about this, the only way you can make up for that gpa is with a stellar LSAT score. NU and UVA are great choices, and maybe some lower ranked schools that might give you $$.

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hephaestus
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby hephaestus » Sat May 11, 2013 7:00 pm

Micdiddy wrote:URM?

Agree with above. Study A LOT from now until October. Do not be lazy about this, the only way you can make up for that gpa is with a stellar LSAT score. NU and UVA are great choices, and maybe some lower ranked schools that might give you $$.

Agreed. Your GPA will hurt you. The only thing that can save you is the LSAT, not recommendations or anything else

Hoosier574
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby Hoosier574 » Sat May 11, 2013 7:25 pm

Thank you for your replies. I will independently prep for the LSAT or enroll in a prep course soon. I always thought URM students were given a slight bit of leeway in order to improve their diversity statistics.

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hephaestus
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby hephaestus » Sat May 11, 2013 7:32 pm

Hoosier574 wrote:Thank you for your replies. I will independently prep for the LSAT or enroll in a prep course soon. I always thought URM students were given a slight bit of leeway in order to improve their diversity statistics.

Definitely. What kind of URM are you?

Hoosier574
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby Hoosier574 » Sat May 11, 2013 7:51 pm

First generation college...

ImNoScar wrote:
Hoosier574 wrote:Thank you for your replies. I will independently prep for the LSAT or enroll in a prep course soon. I always thought URM students were given a slight bit of leeway in order to improve their diversity statistics.

Definitely. What kind of URM are you?

bananapeanutbutter
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby bananapeanutbutter » Sat May 11, 2013 8:04 pm

Hoosier574 wrote:First generation college...

ImNoScar wrote:
Hoosier574 wrote:Thank you for your replies. I will independently prep for the LSAT or enroll in a prep course soon. I always thought URM students were given a slight bit of leeway in order to improve their diversity statistics.

Definitely. What kind of URM are you?

This should factor in, but does not. I think a first generation graduate with the same numbers as somebody from an Ivy League family is a better bet to perform well, which should be all that matters. However just study for the LSAT, and stop telling your story as it's not that exciting.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby Micdiddy » Sat May 11, 2013 8:05 pm

Hoosier574 wrote:First generation college...

ImNoScar wrote:
Hoosier574 wrote:Thank you for your replies. I will independently prep for the LSAT or enroll in a prep course soon. I always thought URM students were given a slight bit of leeway in order to improve their diversity statistics.

Definitely. What kind of URM are you?


Ok, but African American, Mexican American? Etc.?

Hoosier574
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby Hoosier574 » Sat May 11, 2013 9:03 pm

bananapeanutbutter wrote:
Hoosier574 wrote:First generation college...

ImNoScar wrote:
Hoosier574 wrote:Thank you for your replies. I will independently prep for the LSAT or enroll in a prep course soon. I always thought URM students were given a slight bit of leeway in order to improve their diversity statistics.

Definitely. What kind of URM are you?

This should factor in, but does not. I think a first generation graduate with the same numbers as somebody from an Ivy League family is a better bet to perform well, which should be all that matters. However just study for the LSAT, and stop telling your story as it's not that exciting.


Sorry for the lack of excitement. I should have teamed up with Tarantino for that post. Maybe I should include the deaths of my family members or how I was in the hospital and missed weeks of classes.

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laotze
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby laotze » Sat May 11, 2013 9:13 pm

Ded Precedent wrote:Law schools could give a fuck about your story or your letters of recommendation. Those things only matter if you're right on the verge numbers wise. Check out lawschoolnumbers.com to get an idea of where you have a chance and study like a raging aspie for the LSAT.

Good luck.


In at several T14s with 160-165/3.7-4.0, non-URM, so apparently law schools *could* give a fuck about stories and letters of recommendation.
Every strong soft helps.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby Micdiddy » Sat May 11, 2013 9:16 pm

laotze wrote:
Ded Precedent wrote:Law schools could give a fuck about your story or your letters of recommendation. Those things only matter if you're right on the verge numbers wise. Check out lawschoolnumbers.com to get an idea of where you have a chance and study like a raging aspie for the LSAT.

Good luck.


In at several T14s with 165/3.9, non-URM, so apparently law schools *could* give a fuck about stories and letters of recommendation.
Every strong soft helps.


So, I think you're supporting his point?

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laotze
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby laotze » Sat May 11, 2013 9:23 pm

Micdiddy wrote:
laotze wrote:
Ded Precedent wrote:Law schools could give a fuck about your story or your letters of recommendation. Those things only matter if you're right on the verge numbers wise. Check out lawschoolnumbers.com to get an idea of where you have a chance and study like a raging aspie for the LSAT.

Good luck.


In at several T14s with 165/3.9, non-URM, so apparently law schools *could* give a fuck about stories and letters of recommendation.
Every strong soft helps.


So, I think you're supporting his point?


Possibly, now that I re-read it. Though OP sounds like he'll be more than "verge" with those practice scores. Not disagreeing that LSAT score should be his primary concern, but just saying he should take softs seriously regardless.

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Micdiddy
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Re: Advice please? T1 or T2?

Postby Micdiddy » Sat May 11, 2013 9:34 pm

laotze wrote:
Micdiddy wrote:
laotze wrote:
In at several T14s with 165/3.9, non-URM, so apparently law schools *could* give a fuck about stories and letters of recommendation.
Every strong soft helps.


So, I think you're supporting his point?


Possibly, now that I re-read it. Though OP sounds like he'll be more than "verge" with those practice scores. Not disagreeing that LSAT score should be his primary concern, but just saying he should take softs seriously regardless.


100% agree. It's his life story, he can't change it and he should DEFINITELY write about it in his ps. But yes, since your softs will not change in the next few months, make them all about the LSAT.

Hoosier574
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Re: Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby Hoosier574 » Sat May 11, 2013 9:41 pm

I'll take them into consideration for sure. The pre-law advisors I spoke with at my university all said it would help, even if its just a little. So, one other question. Would you say that deciding to double major hurt my chances (in regards to a lower GPA/more work vs higher GPA/easy electives)?

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Micdiddy
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Re: Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby Micdiddy » Sat May 11, 2013 9:49 pm

Hoosier574 wrote:I'll take them into consideration for sure. The pre-law advisors I spoke with at my university all said it would help, even if its just a little. So, one other question. Would you say that deciding to double major hurt my chances (in regards to a lower GPA/more work vs higher GPA/easy electives)?


Probably yes. Unless that second major was hard science schools won't care.
Did you answer if you we're AA, MA, or just plain old white/Asian?

Hoosier574
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Re: Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby Hoosier574 » Sat May 11, 2013 9:58 pm

Micdiddy wrote:
Hoosier574 wrote:I'll take them into consideration for sure. The pre-law advisors I spoke with at my university all said it would help, even if its just a little. So, one other question. Would you say that deciding to double major hurt my chances (in regards to a lower GPA/more work vs higher GPA/easy electives)?


Probably yes. Unless that second major was hard science schools won't care.
Did you answer if you we're AA, MA, or just plain old white/Asian?


Ah, well bummer. To answer your earlier question, run of the mill white male.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun May 12, 2013 8:25 am

So there isn't any confusion, a 165/3.9 non-URM getting into multiple T-14s is not surprising at all. That can be accomplished with zero soft factors in your favor.

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TheBiggerMediocre
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Re: Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby TheBiggerMediocre » Sun May 12, 2013 10:14 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:So there isn't any confusion, a 165/3.9 non-URM getting into multiple T-14s is not surprising at all. That can be accomplished with zero soft factors in your favor.


not true. the .3 GPA difference is not going get to get you from T30 to t14, Anybody could have just planned well from the beginning and gotten a 3.9 maybe even a 4.1 if from the right school

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laotze
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Re: Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby laotze » Sun May 12, 2013 11:22 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:So there isn't any confusion, a 165/3.9 non-URM getting into multiple T-14s is not surprising at all. That can be accomplished with zero soft factors in your favor.


Well, again, those numbers are fudged in a range (160-165, 3.7-4.0), and I was admitted to schools that had 25th percentiles of 167, for instance (in some cases admittedly after interviews). Obviously I have no way of knowing what ultimately got me in in each case, but I think the lower number of applicants getting in annually at this range probably indicates that softs are important here.

Anyway, OP is wisely focusing on improving his LSAT score regardless, so assuming he's working on a killer essay it sounds like he's doing everything he can. All I was saying is that yes, he has a shot.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun May 12, 2013 11:30 am

laotze wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:So there isn't any confusion, a 165/3.9 non-URM getting into multiple T-14s is not surprising at all. That can be accomplished with zero soft factors in your favor.


Well, again, those numbers are fudged in a range (160-165, 3.7-4.0), and I was admitted to schools that had 25th percentiles of 167, for instance (in some cases admittedly after interviews). Obviously I have no way of knowing what ultimately got me in in each case, but I think the lower number of applicants getting in annually at this range probably indicates that softs are important here.

Anyway, OP is wisely focusing on improving his LSAT score regardless, so assuming he's working on a killer essay it sounds like he's doing everything he can. All I was saying is that yes, he has a shot.

Yes, the lower end of the range you added in your edit would not likely make the T14. My point is that the numbers I listed, which I believe are close to yours and include a GPA above the median of almost every school, should land an applicant in at multiple T-14s with even an average application. Obviously a retake is in order for anyone with those numbers, but even without a retake the T14 is well within reach. Just want to make sure that future applicants aren't misled here.

Of course for this OP the GPA ship has long since sailed, so it's 170 or bust.

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Hat.trick
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Re: Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby Hat.trick » Thu May 23, 2013 11:57 am

My favorite comment is always "what kind of URM are you" because people have no idea what it means. URM mean ONLY mexican, african american, native america, or puerto rican. not first generation college student, not that your mom died, not that you have an extra toe on your left foot. With a 2.9 you have almost no shot on at T14, strong recommendations wont do shit. just study for the LSAT and score in the 170s and then maybe explore your options.

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Cobretti
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Re: Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby Cobretti » Thu May 23, 2013 12:07 pm

Hat.trick wrote:My favorite comment is always "what kind of URM are you" because people have no idea what it means. URM mean ONLY mexican, african american, native america, or puerto rican. not first generation college student, not that your mom died, not that you have an extra toe on your left foot. With a 2.9 you have almost no shot on at T14, strong recommendations wont do shit. just study for the LSAT and score in the 170s and then maybe explore your options.

Necro'd his thread just to compare his dead parents to having an extra toe, you're a cool guy.

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Yukos
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Re: Advice please? T14 or T50?

Postby Yukos » Thu May 23, 2013 12:16 pm

Hat.trick wrote:My favorite comment is always "what kind of URM are you" because people have no idea what it means. URM mean ONLY mexican, african american, native america, or puerto rican. not first generation college student, not that your mom died, not that you have an extra toe on your left foot. With a 2.9 you have almost no shot on at T14, strong recommendations wont do shit. just study for the LSAT and score in the 170s and then maybe explore your options.


People on this board ask "what kind of URM are you" for two reasons: 1) because often OP will answer something like "Egyptian-American" and then we have to break the news to them that they aren't a URM and 2) because there's some speculation that the "boosts" differ between types of URM (e.g. AA gets a bigger boost than MA).




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