ATL's Law School Rankings

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JamesDean1955
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby JamesDean1955 » Wed May 01, 2013 5:29 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:Do these rankings competitors that always bash the library inclusion in USNWR not understand that looking library size/collection is just a proxy for determining overall quality --and not a direct support that having more books is better?

And likewise, higher cost probably signals being better, not worse.


I think the more alcohol the average student drinks at a given law school should weigh heavily on rank.

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TheThriller
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby TheThriller » Wed May 01, 2013 5:34 pm

U of New Mexico cracking that T26

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romothesavior
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby romothesavior » Wed May 01, 2013 5:34 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:Do these rankings competitors that always bash the library inclusion in USNWR not understand that looking library size/collection is just a proxy for determining overall quality --and not a direct support that having more books is better?

And likewise, higher cost probably signals being better, not worse.

wat

AllTheLawz
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby AllTheLawz » Wed May 01, 2013 5:34 pm

Shocked at the bashing of the inclusion of SCOTUS clerks. It says clearly that they are measuring "outcomes" and SCOTUS clerk is clearly a desirable outcome. Further the inclusion will only have a meaningful effect in fine distinctions between elite schools. It isn't really going to effect anything outside the top 10 or so schools and within the top 10 or so it is just another data point to add to data that is similar in most other ways.

I am having trouble understanding the downside or distortion caused by inclusion of SCOTUS clerks.

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laxbrah420
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed May 01, 2013 5:46 pm

romothesavior wrote:
laxbrah420 wrote:Do these rankings competitors that always bash the library inclusion in USNWR not understand that looking library size/collection is just a proxy for determining overall quality --and not a direct support that having more books is better?

And likewise, higher cost probably signals being better, not worse.

wat

If you were ranking wine, and you'd already evaluated based on vintage, region, bottler rep, and you still weren't sure which bottle was better...you'd probably conclude that the higher priced bottle is the better bottle. I think that's pretty easy to see.

Certain attributes don't intrinsically make something better, but they may signal it

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romothesavior
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby romothesavior » Wed May 01, 2013 5:50 pm

That's a horrible analogy.

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nickb285
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby nickb285 » Wed May 01, 2013 5:51 pm

That must be why TJSL is a better school than UW.

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sinfiery
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby sinfiery » Wed May 01, 2013 5:51 pm

Signaling indicators are for consumers not experts.

Myself
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.

Postby Myself » Wed May 01, 2013 5:52 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Sun Nov 24, 2013 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sheffield
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby Sheffield » Wed May 01, 2013 6:04 pm

Perhaps when TLS updates their top-law-schools page TLS will dump the obsolete and obscure Gourman and EQR (whatever that is) rankings and replace them with the Above the Law list.

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laxbrah420
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed May 01, 2013 6:08 pm

romothesavior wrote:That's a horrible analogy.

If you say so

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sublime
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby sublime » Wed May 01, 2013 6:16 pm

..

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laxbrah420
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed May 01, 2013 6:19 pm

sinfiery wrote:Signaling indicators are for consumers not experts.

Maybe... but I'm not sure you can be an expert at ranking schools the same way you can be at rating wine. In the latter, you can try the whole lot.

Anyways then the question becomes, do we want to rank shit based on a school's ability to achieve the same good outcomes with less resources, or do we prefer to rank a school higher because they might have more resources?

If you're deciding between two schools with exactly identical outcomes, a public and private one, both cost YOU $50k total, but that's sticker at the public one and that's a $150k scholarship at the private, I think you go private. The private school's gonna have more resources and might actually be better off in the future even if they're currently not putting them to good use.

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sinfiery
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby sinfiery » Wed May 01, 2013 7:12 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Signaling indicators are for consumers not experts.

Maybe... but I'm not sure you can be an expert at ranking schools the same way you can be at rating wine. In the latter, you can try the whole lot.

Anyways then the question becomes, do we want to rank shit based on a school's ability to achieve the same good outcomes with less resources, or do we prefer to rank a school higher because they might have more resources?

If you're deciding between two schools with exactly identical outcomes, a public and private one, both cost YOU $50k total, but that's sticker at the public one and that's a $150k scholarship at the private, I think you go private. The private school's gonna have more resources and might actually be better off in the future even if they're currently not putting them to good use.

Agreed, but instead of using the price, one could take out much of the uncertainty and quantify the actual resources. From library size to journal reach or whatever it is law school resources entail.

Using cost is a huge shortcut for this step. And this is especially harmful given what we know about how law schools abuse what you alluded to. The perceived value of going to a school that costs 50k but I am getting a 30k scholarship so Cooley for me really has some value versus UT instate.

At the very least, they should have used the data already available as Mylsn.info does to calculate what the actual cost/revenue generated.by the schools are. Can't think of any reason they why they didn't other than laziness.


As for your broader point, I actually agree but because price is so individualized, rank the schools without taking.cost into account and then let the individuals use their specific cost to decide where to attend.

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laxbrah420
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed May 01, 2013 7:17 pm

Totally agreed. Library size I think is outdated and can be improved, but definitely preferable to what ATL did here, even though ATL explicitly ripped on the library.

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northwood
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby northwood » Wed May 01, 2013 7:28 pm

laxbrah420 wrote:Totally agreed. Library size I think is outdated and can be improved, but definitely preferable to what ATL did here, even though ATL explicitly ripped on the library.



cooley has a big library. In this age, a lot of schools and researchers are going online, so why does library size matter?? I realize that its nice and has a purpose, but size of library does not equate to quality of the school.

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Kronk
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby Kronk » Wed May 01, 2013 7:34 pm

Someone up me on what CP means?

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scruffy556
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby scruffy556 » Wed May 01, 2013 7:42 pm

Kronk wrote:Someone up me on what CP means?


Captain Picard?

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby WokeUpInACar » Wed May 01, 2013 7:44 pm

I'm going to a t14, hurray!

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northwood
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby northwood » Wed May 01, 2013 7:48 pm

WokeUpInACar wrote:I'm going to a t14, hurray!

retake/ remake poll until its a T6

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Kronk
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby Kronk » Wed May 01, 2013 7:51 pm

Does this methodology correct for UVa employing like 20% it's own graduates?

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sinfiery
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby sinfiery » Wed May 01, 2013 7:56 pm

Kronk wrote:Does this methodology correct for UVa employing like 20% it's own graduates?


And given the cost of obtaining legal education, we want to know which law schools put you in jobs that pay you money, instead of jobs the law school pays for.

Probably

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Kronk
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby Kronk » Wed May 01, 2013 8:07 pm

To make this methodology better, I would take out the Education Cost aspect entirely. It's a huge consideration, but it should be one that the applicant makes independently. You can look at a list of schools, see which is the "best" for employment and satisfaction purposes, and then analyze the cost difference. Cost is such an individual thing from student to student, it just seems dumb to put Columbia so low when it's clear the school is great for employment.

Someone can look at the two schools, realize Columbia is 60k more than, say, Virginia, and decide from there. I don't need them to do it for me and incorporate it into the ranking. I'd rather have the 15% be student QOL and/or peer evaluations from the legal community.

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DorianGray89
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby DorianGray89 » Wed May 01, 2013 9:32 pm

Y'all are just mad cause your school went down compared to the USNWR rankings... get over it and accept the facts.

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Kronk
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Re: ATL's Law School Rankings

Postby Kronk » Wed May 01, 2013 9:33 pm

I don't go to CLS. I'm just saying putting CLS behind Duke is hilarious when the main aspect of the methodology is supposedly employment stats, biglawl placement, and clerkships.




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