New Assured Outcomes for Law School

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M458
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby M458 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:21 am

Sheffield wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:
Sheffield wrote:
2Ls and 3Ls:

You will receive access to BARBRI’s Upper Level Program free of charge, which includes:
•Subject outlines
•Video lectures
•Practice multiple choice questions
•Access to BARBRI’s comprehensive MPRE Review Course, which includes a four-hour lecture, an outline, and hundreds of multiple choice questions.


Is this the full Barbri program - for free? Am I missing something in the fine print here?

No, I don't think that you're missing anything; I believe that it is true that they will pay for the program for free. However, based on this, it is actually not as big of a benefit as most people think. That is to say, after graduating, your future employer will usually cover the cost of bar prep as well as living expenses, so what this school is almost admitting to with this program is that their graduates will not have jobs because the school has to step in and do what employers usually cover. Passing the bar is great and all, but if you don't have a job lined up by that point in time, you are probably not in a good spot. :(


While I agree with your analysis, wouldn’t it be great if all schools offered this benefit? No matter the school, if you are a 3L somewhere stuck in a bad place, this (a Barbri with a satisfactory living stipend) could certainly be a welcomed lifesaver.


They would just increase tuition to cover this "benefit."

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Sheffield
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby Sheffield » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:51 am

Perhaps, but maybe not. Take Florida C, they have one of the lower tuitions yet they are the ones that originated this policy. If I wanted to go to LS, but did not have the grades for a T14 or even a tier-1, I would give Florida C a second look before moving ahead to a LS with less than an impressive employment outcome.

If this “concept” works like I suspect Florida C hopes it does, the outcome could be that they will attract students who would have otherwise opted for a higher ranked school (also with mediocre 50/50 employment stats). In time, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Florida C breaking into the top 100.

Maybe all schools with unimpressive employment records should step up with a policy identical to this. Don't you wish your school offered this benefit?

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North
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby North » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:43 am

Sheffield wrote:Perhaps, but maybe not. Take Florida C, they have one of the lower tuitions yet they are the ones that originated this policy. If I wanted to go to LS, but did not have the grades for a T14 or even a tier-1, I would give Florida C a second look before moving ahead to a LS with less than an impressive employment outcome.

If this “concept” works like I suspect Florida C hopes it does, the outcome could be that they will attract students who would have otherwise opted for a higher ranked school (also with mediocre 50/50 employment stats). In time, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Florida C breaking into the top 100.

Maybe all schools with unimpressive employment records should step up with a policy identical to this. Don't you wish your school offered this benefit?

Are you being serious? I can't tell.

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Sheffield
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby Sheffield » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:11 am

North wrote:Are you being serious? I can't tell.

When I first heard of this idea I thought it was a gimmick/scam to induce students to a failing school. But I am starting to warm up to the concept. For whatever reason, one I cannot grasp, people are unexplainably entering schools with highly questionable employment possibilities — so why not select a school that offers a backup plan that [nearly] assures a JD, free bar exam material and a living stipend. Personally, I would like to see this breakthrough concept embraced by all schools. If Florida C can afford it, they all can.

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dirtrida2
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby dirtrida2 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:16 am

Sheffield wrote:
North wrote:Are you being serious? I can't tell.

When I first heard of this idea I thought it was a gimmick/scam to induce students to a failing school. But I am starting to warm up to the concept. For whatever reason, one I cannot grasp, people are unexplainably entering schools with highly questionable employment possibilities — so why not select a school that offers a backup plan that [nearly] assures a JD, free bar exam material and a living stipend. Personally, I would like to see this breakthrough concept embraced by all schools. If Florida C can afford it, they all can.


If they CARED so much for their students, they wouldn't seat 580 applicants.

I'm sorry, but any TTTT with a large class size only cares about the $$ - just look at American.

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Sheffield
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby Sheffield » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:19 am

dirtrida2 wrote:
Sheffield wrote:
North wrote:Are you being serious? I can't tell.

When I first heard of this idea I thought it was a gimmick/scam to induce students to a failing school. But I am starting to warm up to the concept. For whatever reason, one I cannot grasp, people are unexplainably entering schools with highly questionable employment possibilities — so why not select a school that offers a backup plan that [nearly] assures a JD, free bar exam material and a living stipend. Personally, I would like to see this breakthrough concept embraced by all schools. If Florida C can afford it, they all can.


If they CARED so much for their students, they wouldn't seat 580 applicants.

I'm sorry, but any TTTT with a large class size only cares about the $$ - just look at American.

I did not realize that. Nevertheless, it is the concept I embrace. Given the lingering ITC, I like it a lot.

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justonemoregame
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby justonemoregame » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:27 am

Sheffield wrote:
dirtrida2 wrote:
Sheffield wrote:
North wrote:Are you being serious? I can't tell.

When I first heard of this idea I thought it was a gimmick/scam to induce students to a failing school. But I am starting to warm up to the concept. For whatever reason, one I cannot grasp, people are unexplainably entering schools with highly questionable employment possibilities — so why not select a school that offers a backup plan that [nearly] assures a JD, free bar exam material and a living stipend. Personally, I would like to see this breakthrough concept embraced by all schools. If Florida C can afford it, they all can.


If they CARED so much for their students, they wouldn't seat 580 applicants.

I'm sorry, but any TTTT with a large class size only cares about the $$ - just look at American.

I did not know that. It is the concept I embrace. Given the lingering ITC, I like it a lot.


Just stick with your first impression. Coastal knows it's a sinking shitboat. And the only way to entice people to leave their homemade-but-sturdy raft and swim to the sinking shitboat is to give them some kind of incentive. The incentive doesn't change the fact that you're going to die a horrible, stinking death.

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Sheffield
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby Sheffield » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:36 am

justonemoregame wrote:Just stick with your first impression. Coastal knows it's a sinking shitboat. And the only way to entice people to leave their homemade-but-sturdy raft and swim to the sinking shitboat is to give them some kind of incentive. The incentive doesn't change the fact that you're going to die a horrible, stinking death.

Not arguing that point. But, Florida C is doing what all schools should be doing in regards to offering the best prep bar program(s) as part of their high tuition. Yes/No?

As an afterthought. If FC is attracting a huge class size, their plan could be working to the extent of hurting the recruiting efforts of similarly ranked schools. At some point FC’s competitors will fight back, then perhaps the concept will spread. Maybe?

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justonemoregame
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby justonemoregame » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:46 am

Yeah, I agree, bar-prep should be taken during 3L at no additional cost. And yeah, this should probably be seen as a good sign in general.

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Sheffield
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby Sheffield » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:54 am

As an afterthought. If FC is attracting a huge class size, their plan could be working to the extent of hurting the recruiting efforts of similarly ranked schools. At some point one of FC’s competitors will fight back, then perhaps the concept will spread.

Will this concept work its way up to a struggling tier 2 (or tier 1) school? I would not be surprised if some ranked LS (stressed by attendance decreases) crunched the numbers and gave it a go.

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Danger Zone
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby Danger Zone » Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:59 am

Dude, FC's competitors aren't fighting against FC for students any more than in years past. Law schools are in a collective fight against declining applicants and enrollment nationwide. As noted earlier in this thread, just two years ago FC had an entering class size of 800. In 2013, they were down to 580. I assure you FC's competitors aren't worried about this "Assured Outcomes" program at all.

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romothesavior
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby romothesavior » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:05 am

Danger Zone wrote:Dude, FC's competitors aren't fighting against FC for students any more than in years past. Law schools are in a collective fight against declining applicants and enrollment nationwide. As noted earlier in this thread, just two years ago FC had an entering class size of 800. In 2013, they were down to 580. I assure you FC's competitors aren't worried about this "Assured Outcomes" program at all.

Some of these schools won't exist in a few years if the trends continue, and FC knows it.

And honestly, with students heading to Nova in droves for their new JD/masters in international birdlaw policy dual degree, one can hardly blame them.

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justonemoregame
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby justonemoregame » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:24 am

Don't forget about Barry's dual-degree program in Cartoon Law - classes held Saturday morning on the Magic Kingdom campus.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:34 pm

Sheffield wrote:As an afterthought. If FC is attracting a huge class size, their plan could be working to the extent of hurting the recruiting efforts of similarly ranked schools. At some point one of FC’s competitors will fight back, then perhaps the concept will spread.

Will this concept work its way up to a struggling tier 2 (or tier 1) school? I would not be surprised if some ranked LS (stressed by attendance decreases) crunched the numbers and gave it a go.

They have. They're called school funded jobs.

akasabian
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby akasabian » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:23 pm

justonemoregame wrote:Don't forget about Barry's dual-degree program in Cartoon Law - classes held Saturday morning on the Magic Kingdom campus.


+1

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Sheffield
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby Sheffield » Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:59 pm

justonemoregame wrote:Don't forget about Barry's dual-degree program in Cartoon Law - classes held Saturday morning on the Magic Kingdom campus.

I love humor… that response was cool. +1

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Sheffield wrote: Will this concept work its way up to a struggling tier 2 (or tier 1) school? I would not be surprised if some ranked LS (stressed by attendance decreases) crunched the numbers and gave it a go.

They have. They're called school funded jobs.

I am not very familiar with school funded jobs, but if they help, I am a supporter — are School Funded jobs as beneficial as the Assured Outcome idea?

For a moment get TTT schools out of the conversation and focus on helping those facing an employment dilemma. What if a respected Tier-1 school like Emory or W&L were to institute an AO, does anyone see that as something less than beneficial? Wouldn’t AO viewed as a good step in the right direction? And…. if you were having a toss-up moment choosing between Emory or W&L, would AO sway you?

20141023
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby 20141023 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:34 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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magp90
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby magp90 » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:57 pm

I'm a little shocked at how much debate has arisen from a total scam.

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justonemoregame
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby justonemoregame » Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:07 pm

The good thing is that a super shitty law school now finds it necessary to do something like this. They're probably trying to fight off breaking the sub-140 barrier for their 25th LSAT.

By the way, does anyone have the link for 2012 entering class sizes / metrics?

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Danger Zone
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby Danger Zone » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:07 pm

justonemoregame wrote:The good thing is that a super shitty law school now finds it necessary to do something like this. They're probably trying to fight off breaking the sub-140 barrier for their 25th LSAT.

By the way, does anyone have the link for 2012 entering class sizes / metrics?

I posted a link to it on the first page, right before your post asking for the exact same information.

eric922
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby eric922 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:05 am

I wish "Inside the Law School Scam" was still up. I bet Campos could have a field day with this.

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justonemoregame
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby justonemoregame » Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:55 am

Danger Zone wrote:
justonemoregame wrote:The good thing is that a super shitty law school now finds it necessary to do something like this. They're probably trying to fight off breaking the sub-140 barrier for their 25th LSAT.

By the way, does anyone have the link for 2012 entering class sizes / metrics?

I posted a link to it on the first page, right before your post asking for the exact same information.



I meant to ask for enrollment figures for all law schools, but nevermind, I found the thread.

By the way, watch out Coastal, Barry law is coming straight to your inbox with a litte bit o' this:

Looking for a law school with a track record of success? At Barry University School of Law, we let our accomplishments – and those of our students – speak for themselves.

Barry Law’s first-time Florida Bar Exam test-takers in February posted a 92.7 percent passage rate. This exceptional showing is a testament to both the top-quality educational experience you'll receive at Barry Law and our extensive Bar Prep program, which begins during your first year at Barry Law and continues until the day you take the Bar Exam.

Our championship-caliber Trial Team consistently places at or near the top in national competitions. In 2012, our student advocates defeated Harvard University in the finals to win the ABA National Criminal Justice Trial Advocacy Competition in Chicago.

Barry Law’s accomplished alumni can be found throughout Florida and the nation in private practice, business, and government.
Our unique mission, which emphasizes compassion and ethics in the practice of law, has helped us build a reputation for excellence in the legal community. Barry Law has attracted world-renowned speakers and lecturers to our campus, including prominent public leaders and attorneys who are recognized as among the best in their field.

As you weigh your choices for a legal education, demand a record of accomplishment. Then see how that record stacks up against Barry Law’s.

Call or email today to learn more about the Barry Law experience. We are accepting applications for Fall 2013 and look forward to welcoming you into the Barry Law family.


Sincerely,

Bethany A. Pierpont, Esq.
Director of Admissions
Barry University School of law
6441 E. Colonial Dr. Orlando FL 32807
321.206.569

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scruffy556
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby scruffy556 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:16 pm

I got that email too.

It's just funny to me that these schools tout their apparent intimate concern for the success of their students, when in reality the best thing they could do for law students is nail their doors shut.

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Sheffield
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Re: New Assured Outcomes for Law School

Postby Sheffield » Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:27 pm

justonemoregame wrote:Call or email today to learn more about the Barry Law experience. We are accepting applications for Fall 2013 and look forward to welcoming you into the Barry Law family.

Sincerely,

Bethany A. Pierpont, Esq.
Director of Admissions
Barry University School of law


Okay. She induced me to grab the suntan lotion and enthusiastically check out Barry. Using Barry’s very own COA/COL stats and how much the average grad earns. After loans and taxes, net monthly bring home is ….. wait… 4… it….. $1,699.00. $9.80 an hour. To be fair Barry touts an upper end grad compensation figure, increasing the hourly rate to $15.57. Stunning. This is the golden parachute that Barry is offering up. More astounding is that anyone would buy into it. But they do.

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