Advised to retake/reapply? - success stories

[TheThriller]

Spent 4 months studying for June 2012 - 167
Spent 3 months studying for Feb 2013, PTd high 170s (about 25+ PTs) - 166

Now I'm graduating w/o a job and only 1/2 scholarships from T20s. Pretty meh for TLS. Sorry if this wasn't the success story you were looking for.

I truly am sorry that you didn't have the outcome you were/are looking for.

I feel really shitty using someone as a negative example, because its a shitty thing to do. But this goes to show that a year "wasted" doing a retake, especially if you know you can do better can result in either a) a higher ranked school, b) significantly less debt.

Better to waste a year between UG and law school, being reckless and carefree, then after LS worried about the shelf life of your JD.


Sorry again, Thriller, and I am sure you are sick of hearing this, but its not over yet. A friend of mine who is a graduating 3L just landed a job last week in house with a tech company. Its not market, but its a good outcome.

To clarify, graduating UG without a job. I'm a 0L. But I will take this advice to heart if I end up unemployed as a 3L

[romothesavior]

Spent 4 months studying for June 2012 - 167
Spent 3 months studying for Feb 2013, PTd high 170s (about 25+ PTs) - 166

Now I'm graduating w/o a job and only 1/2 scholarships from T20s. Pretty meh for TLS. Sorry if this wasn't the success story you were looking for.

Um, you need to seriously retake again if your score dropped that much from the PTs.

I am:

A) Afraid that if I don't improve again I wont get this type of money again (I am a splitter)
B) Unemployed, with an unemployable major. Which means that come August when my paid-for lease ends, I will be living off my own savings

If I can a job within the next 2 weeks I will study and retake in Oct. But right now I don't know what to do. I was all set to attend Emory.

I'm very sorry to hear that, but getting a job, any job, is better than jumping into law school now and selling yourself short. There are people who have waited tables for a year to study for a retake. I understand the short term predicament you are in sucks, but going to law school because you can't figure out anything else to do is about the worst reason on the planet to go to law school.

As can be pretty easily seen from this thread (it is, after all, the purpose of this thread), taking time off and being patient is almost always the credited move when you're on the fence.

[Tekrul]

Spent 4 months studying for June 2012 - 167
Spent 3 months studying for Feb 2013, PTd high 170s (about 25+ PTs) - 166

Now I'm graduating w/o a job and only 1/2 scholarships from T20s. Pretty meh for TLS. Sorry if this wasn't the success story you were looking for.

You owe yourself that second retake. Take a look at this thread. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=208046

Last year I faced a tough decision. Attend a T6 school with a very small scholarship, or sit out a year, retake the LSAT, and shoot for better outcomes. This is what resulted:

2011-2012 Cycle: 163 LSAT
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/mishap

2012-2013 Cycle: 163/165/176 LSAT
lawschoolnumbers.com/try%20again

I hope this can help someone who is struggling with the same situation that I faced last year. Retaking the LSAT was one of the best decision I ever made.

This should be an extremely relatable story. darkgreycloud's first retake was around the same score as the first but then he/she hit the high 170's, like you were accomplishing yourself, and had one of the most enviable cycles out of everyone on this board.

Seriously, wait some tables with your head in the books and a smug smile on your face. And then go get the cycle you know you can have.

Edit: so many grammatical errors.

[Tiago Splitter]

I was all set to go to a TT when I found TLS and saw the light. Cognitive dissonance and optimism bias had a pretty good hold on me for a few months thereafter but eventually the message got through. I re-took, improved 12 points, and re-applied.

And I decided to retake when I was 27, so I don't want to hear any of this "I'm 24, life is passing me by, I can't retake" crap.

[romothesavior]

I don't want to hear any of this "I'm 24, life is passing me by, I can't retake" crap.

Seriously.

[sinfiery]

I fit the bill of having my retake stopping me from being a k-jd. I was pting roughly 171-174 and got a 167 after 3-4 months of decent studying.

Now, my background is a TTT undergrad and basically everyone I've ever known was beyond themselves that I scored as high as I did. If I ever mentioned retaking, everyone jumped at me and always mentioned what if you score lower.

Add to it that I was set on k-jd before entering UG so I made absolutely no effort to make connections (quite important from my UG) so my job options were terrible.

After getting my score, I really started to doubt my PTs as an actual indicator. It wasn't until I read so many successful retake stories on TLS (tiago included) that led me to take the year off. Took a job at a gas station, faced my friends and families objections, lived at home, and put in a really strenuous 1-2 months. 176 in October. Everything changed, from likely locked out of the T14 to a numerical chance at every school.

After I got my score, I've also gotten to really enjoy this year off and work on a project I've had in my mind for a few years but never thought I could actually do. I was in such a hurry to get into LS (woulda been 21 lol) I never realized how much having that mountain of debt was going to constrain what one can do. Taking a year off and getting some experience in life as a young and relatively unburdened person is something you should look as an absolute positive experience. I know I didn't going in and I now know how foolish I was.

[che3055]

158 --> 166 (applied everywhere with this) --> 172 (off a June retake)

After snagging a couple of T14 acceptances with no moeny (and plenty of waitlists) with my 166, I decided to go to a T20 with about a 10% scholarship. Less than 24 hours after I got my June score back, my T20 bumped me up to a full ride, and two more T14s reach out to me off the waitlist (not outright acceptances, but they wanted to talk).

I studied for about 150 hours between my second and third tests. Those 150 hours yielded me nearly $150,000. Best decision I ever made.

[RetakeFrenzy]

All these stories are really inspiring!

[nugnoy]

Not exactly advised to retake/reapply by TLS but sort of relevant:

Started Prep in August 2012 & signed up for Oct 2012. 1st Diag 153. The week before the test, I knew I wasn't ready. I was tempted to postpone but I didn't because I had committed to this Oct and postponing felt cowardly - I would lose respect for myself because it felt like running away from a problem/challenge. Took the test, got 168. I knew I underperformed - I told myself to retake (for others this is where others would have been advised/convinced to retake - I just decided to retake a week before the test because I knew I didn't perform up to my potential).

Self-studied for 6 months, took June 2013, got 176, lower end of my performance and lowest score I told myself I'd be satisfied with. But it's still a good score - I don't think reprepping and retaking it for 1+2 points is worth the time commitment & opportunity cost.

My advice
1. If I had been a reverse splitter/normal applicant with 3.8+ / 168, I would've been a weak candidate at T14 and UCLA would've been a reach. Now, I feel I have a reachable shot at Columbia/NYU etc, schools that have accepted splitters and a much better shot at UCLA. If you're a reverse splitter/normal/splitter who hasn't gotten a justifiable representation of your potential, taking time off and retaking can make you a MUCH stronger candidate. At the same time, you can strengthen your application - work experience, volunteer, letter of rec etc. Or you can just do whatever you want and make achievements in it, which strengthens your application again.

2. I regret not cancelling/postponing. I knew I wasn't ready but I took it to keep respect for myself. Looking back, it's all silly - for a piece of intangible value I've reduced my chances at some admissions by showing them a lower score. If you know you're not ready/feel iffy before the postpone/cancel deadline, postpone/cancel. If you're 70%+ certain you haven't performed justly, I recommend you to strongly CONSIDER cancelling as a viable option.

3. I studied 9~10 hours almost daily for ~4 months. "Retake & profit" sounds easy but know that it takes dedication if you do decide to get into it. But it's still easier than dealing with real life so keep that in mind too.

[romothesavior]

3. I studied 9~10 hours almost daily for ~4 months. "Retake & profit" sounds easy but know that it takes dedication if you do decide to get into it. But it's still easier than dealing with real life so keep that in mind too.

One thing to keep in mind is that "retake and profit" is infinitely easier and far more within your control than "just kill it in law school and get good grades." So that's part of the reason why people throw it out there so much.

Also, maybe a retake for 1-2 points isn't worth it if it means taking a year off, but 1) retaking for 1-2 points mid-cycle is absolutely worth it because it can mean literally tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money, and 2) I genuinely believe that the vast majority of people are capable of increasing by more than 1-2 points, because the vast majority of people don't study properly and don't take it as seriously as they should.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said because I thought it was a great post, I'm just clarifying why you see the advice parroted by TLS so often.

[thewaves]

I applied with a 164 and was set on MVPB (sweet $270K sticker; got into a couple other t-14s as well). Turned it down, got a job, retook, scored a 172. Now, with 2 more years off, ~$80k saved up, I'll be applying this cycle and reporting back! However, I'm not set on going to law school anymore--work has opened other doors to me.

My advice: always keep your options open. Law school doesn't have to be your only choice. With the way the legal industry is headed, you should think hard before committing (especially with mediocre scores).

[nugnoy]

One thing to keep in mind is that "retake and profit" is infinitely easier and far more within your control than "just kill it in law school and get good grades." So that's part of the reason why people throw it out there so much.

Also, maybe a retake for 1-2 points isn't worth it if it means taking a year off, but 1) retaking for 1-2 points mid-cycle is absolutely worth it because it can mean literally tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money, and 2) I genuinely believe that the vast majority of people are capable of increasing by more than 1-2 points, because the vast majority of people don't study properly and don't take it as seriously as they should.

That's a really good point, one that I didn't think about.

I don't know anything about the benefits of retake for 1-2 points mid-cycle, so I won't comment on it in general.

I think I'd recommend doing other things for people like me: can improve lsat score, but current lsat score is over relevant schools' 75% medians anyway. Have GPA (expecting 3.28) that would prevent me from getting into HYS even if I got 180. Have other weaknesses in application (work experience). You wouldn't waste the 2~3 months you'd spend studying for the retake (which...technically I'm spending in TLS... maybe I should retake lol).

[che3055]

Also, maybe a retake for 1-2 points isn't worth it if it means taking a year off, but 1) retaking for 1-2 points mid-cycle is absolutely worth it because it can mean literally tens of thousands of dollars in scholarship money, and 2) I genuinely believe that the vast majority of people are capable of increasing by more than 1-2 points, because the vast majority of people don't study properly and don't take it as seriously as they should.

This was my experience. For personal reasons, I was pretty against sitting out and reapplying, but my increase in June (barely even "mid-cycle") netted me a lot of cash. Not to mention, I can't think of a more surefire way to get off a waitlist.

[nugnoy]

This was my experience. For personal reasons, I was pretty against sitting out and reapplying, but my increase in June (barely even "mid-cycle") netted me a lot of cash. Not to mention, I can't think of a more surefire way to get off a waitlist.

Were your numbers similar to mine (3.28, 168/176)? Was the increase 1~2 points? If so maybe I will consider retake in Feb or June.

And how'd you go about bringing it up in July? Send them a letter saying that you got a xxx lsat score?

[che3055]

Were your numbers similar to mine (3.28, 168/176)? Was the increase 1~2 points? If so maybe I will consider retake in Feb or June.

And how'd you go about bringing it up in July? Send them a letter saying that you got a xxx lsat score?

158 --> 166 (applied with) --> 172 (June), GPA was above the 75th of everywhere I applied to. It was pretty easy to bring up in July, actually. Pretty much as simple as you outlined.

Also if you're debating a retake with those numbers:

http://www.mylsn.info/93l4ji - you now
http://www.mylsn.info/qawf3e - you with a few points increase

[nugnoy]

Cool, thanks for the info!

I changed the years to 2010-2013 because I've heard that the previous 3 years are not representative of cycle today

175-177 http://www.mylsn.info/7n043l
177-180 http://www.mylsn.info/79h2eg

I was surprised that columbia is green w/ 175-177 and red with 177-180 lol. But I'm guessing it had more to do with the small sample sizes making the %s vulnerable to skewing.

From these data, it seems to me that a higher score may have a somewhat significant (not much) impact in schools in I have some chance - while it won't open up a new door (which I never expected haha).

I will definitely take it into consideration after my applications are in and my plans for next 1 year unfolds.

Congratulations on your score increase!

[LardoftheFries]

Applied everywhere with a 161 (taken June 2012) and was waitlisted at my reach school, WUSTL. I was really averse to the idea of retaking, but eventually TLS got to me. Took the PowerScore full-length course and scored a 166. Within days I was in off the waitlist with full tuition.

I like to think that I essentially made $150,000 in two months.

[drive4showLSAT4dough]

156 -> 164 -> 169

TLS convinced me to retake the LSAT a 3rd time. First take, I was unfamiliar with the LSAT and used Kaplan. Fail. Second time, I studied pretty hard but still didn't hit my target. Underperform fail. I took to TLS to try to justify attending what would likely be full tuition at a lower T1. I got plenty of very useful advice that I did not want to hear, including this from Paul Campos:

"Your plan doesn't make any sense. It adds up to planning to finish in the top 5% of your class instead of trying to get into a better law school, even though the latter is vastly easier to accomplish than the former. The reason the former is tempting is that it requires doing the necessary work in the vague future later instead of the concrete present."

I finally gave in, studied my ass off, and retook for a 169. I'm headed to Duke this fall with a nice chunk of scholarship money. Huge thanks to TLS. I hope others will find this thread on their way to the decision to retake.

[ralph]

..

[CyanIdes Of March]

Edit, misread the post. Take the year off, retest so that you either don't end up at a T20 or you have no debt. Its worth wasting a year now to save a post-LS wasted year.

As for paying the bills, look for the shittest (retail or day labor) job you can find and take solace in the fact its only for a year. Even living on credit card debt, is arguably worthwhile if it means that you can save 10's of K a year on tuition payments

I'd agree with this. Your major may not get you a high paying job, but you can get a low paying job and just coast on it for a year. You'll get some real world experience, won't have to stress about work because the work doesn't come home with you, and you get the chance to go to law school for free or to a better law school.

[I Used to Be a Spy]

-

[bizzybone1313]

Cool thread.

[CyanIdes Of March]

All of these stories are inspiring, but I blame TLS for making my relatively good LSAT score slightly disappointing. Retaking now, probably won't be truly happy with it if I score anything under absolute perfection. Thanks guys .

[Clearly]

All of these stories are inspiring, but I blame TLS for making my relatively good LSAT score slightly disappointing. Retaking now, probably won't be truly happy with it if I score anything under absolute perfection. Thanks guys .

TLS; the tiger-mom you always wished you had.

Lol well said

[sl5uw13]

Before TLS, I thought that 1) softs mattered more than they do and 2) I had good ones that would help me overcome my numbers. I took June 2012 after a Kaplan class and only a few extra PTs from the proctored ones and scored a 168. My PT average was around a 166, with a 171 being the highest. So I felt good about a 168, but I wanted to go to U.Va and it wasn't good enough. TLS convinced me retaking would be the best. I got Manhattan and the bibles and started drilling and my PT average before October 2012 was a 172, and I got another 168. I knew I had underperformed and knew I should retake June 2013. I applied to law schools Fall 2012 just to see where it would get me. I had scholarships to W&M, Richmond, and a full scholarship to W&L, but a waitlist at U.Va.

This is where I had to get my family and everyone off of my back. They didn't understand why I would turn down a full ride to a Top 30 school. I started my prep in January and by the time April and seat deposits being due rolled around I was PTing around 177. I knew it would be foolish to leave points on the table when they represents money and admission to better schools. I disappointed everyone who thought I was making a huge mistake turning down W&L, but got a 173 on June's LSAT and I'm now going to U.Va with 90k next august!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=203433