The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

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Ben Franklin
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The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby Ben Franklin » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:11 pm

Here is my theory on why there is a high amount of unemployment amongst law grads. We all know that there are not enough jobs out there to support the amount of students graduating every year. This is 50% the fault of law schools, but also 50% the fault of the applicants.

I theorize that roughly 40-50% of applicants are of the variety that have no business attending law school in the first place. Just because you may be "smart" and can "do well on a standardized test" does not mean that you can, or should, be an attorney. You are better served being a math major, engineer, or something of that nature. Being an attorney requires a blend of social acumen, street smarts, book smarts, and business sense. Again, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO WELL ON THE LSAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD BE APPLYING TO LAW SCHOOL. Unfortunately, law schools will continue to accept and graduate these individuals at a high rate, so long as they have "the numbers".

Yes, there aren't enough jobs to go around, we are all well aware of this fact. But the problem is that too many of you think law is for you, when it isn't. The culture of this country breeds young individuals that carry a grandiose sense of self-perception and entitlement. The result is an influx of kids who think law is for them, because they "were destined to be somebody".

Law might not be for you if:

1. You chose law for lack of something better to do with your life. Having a JD doesn't mean you've made it. Like anything else, it takes years of practice and dedication to be successful. Many young people today do not realize this.

2. You have no friends, rarely get out, and are socially inept. The legal profession, no matter what type of law you choose to practice, requires individuals to have a certain level of social skills. And yes, this includes people that have 10,000+ posts on message boards. This does not, by any stretch of the imagination, make you cool. You might have finally found a way to fit in by becoming a "regular", but many of you are the epitome of the type of person that has no business being an attorney.

3. You think that because you are "smart", that you should be an attorney. I know plenty of attorneys that are dumb as a box of rocks, but are great attorneys.

4. You think that your ability to learn the methods and techniques of a standardized test means that you will be, or should be, an attorney. Again, this is certainly not the case.

5. You think that being a lawyer will make you rich. This sort of ties into reason #1, but has its own number because many people falsely assume that all lawyers make a ton of money. Plenty do, but only those that were dedicated and worked hard. Law is not a get rich quick business.

This rant is mainly directed at those on this forum who discourage people from going to law school, when they themselves should not be going to law school either. I say everyone should follow their dreams, but unless people stop having a blind sense of self-perception, they will keep applying, attending, and graduating in masses. And before some of you on here discourage someone from going to law school, look in the mirror.

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RELIC
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby RELIC » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:12 pm

quit trolling bro

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jrsbaseball5
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby jrsbaseball5 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:14 pm

I'm sure this will get interesting soon. In before that happens

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Ben Franklin
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby Ben Franklin » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:17 pm

I'm sure it will get interesting, But nobody can debate that fact that many young people today have a false sense of self-perception, and that too many people apply to law school because of a lack of anything else to do. THIS is why we have too many grads

whereskyle
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby whereskyle » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:18 pm

hear, hear.

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elterrible78
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby elterrible78 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:20 pm

Ben Franklin wrote:I'm sure it will get interesting, But nobody can debate that fact that many young people today have a false sense of self-perception, and that too many people apply to law school because of a lack of anything else to do. THIS is why we have too many grads


What do you even mean by "false sense of self-perception"? Like...I think I have a sense of self-perception but really I don't?

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jrsbaseball5
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby jrsbaseball5 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:23 pm

Ben Franklin wrote:I'm sure it will get interesting, But nobody can debate that fact that many young people today have a false sense of self-perception, and that too many people apply to law school because of a lack of anything else to do. THIS is why we have too many grads


I agree with you that there is a false sense of self-perception and that too many people apply because they have nothing else to do and think they can get rich. But why not eliminate the bottom 100 law schools and help to quickly eliminate the glut?

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Ben Franklin
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby Ben Franklin » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:24 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
Ben Franklin wrote:I'm sure it will get interesting, But nobody can debate that fact that many young people today have a false sense of self-perception, and that too many people apply to law school because of a lack of anything else to do. THIS is why we have too many grads


What do you even mean by "false sense of self-perception"? Like...I think I have a sense of self-perception but really I don't?


I could analogize it by saying I think I should be an astronaut. I'm physically fit, I am interested in space, and I've been raised that I can do whatever I want. I might perceive myself to have the ability to be an astronaut, but the reality is no, I have no business being an astronaut. But some who have this sense of self-perception that they can do whatever, be whatever, etc might actually convince themselves they are going to the moon.

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Ben Franklin
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby Ben Franklin » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:25 pm

jrsbaseball5 wrote:
Ben Franklin wrote:I'm sure it will get interesting, But nobody can debate that fact that many young people today have a false sense of self-perception, and that too many people apply to law school because of a lack of anything else to do. THIS is why we have too many grads


I agree with you that there is a false sense of self-perception and that too many people apply because they have nothing else to do and think they can get rich. But why not eliminate the bottom 100 law schools and help to quickly eliminate the glut?


Because in a capitalist society, they are making a good business decision by staying open. As long as there is a demand for legal education, they know that people will continue to apply, and they will happily take their tuition.

eric922
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby eric922 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:44 pm

Ben Franklin wrote:
jrsbaseball5 wrote:
Ben Franklin wrote:I'm sure it will get interesting, But nobody can debate that fact that many young people today have a false sense of self-perception, and that too many people apply to law school because of a lack of anything else to do. THIS is why we have too many grads


I agree with you that there is a false sense of self-perception and that too many people apply because they have nothing else to do and think they can get rich. But why not eliminate the bottom 100 law schools and help to quickly eliminate the glut?


Because in a capitalist society, they are making a good business decision by staying open. As long as there is a demand for legal education, they know that people will continue to apply, and they will happily take their tuition.

Or the government could step in and tell these schools that they have to bring their employment numbers up or they lose qualification for federal loans. That would solve the problem pretty quickly.

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dood
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby dood » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:44 pm

Ben Franklin wrote:I'm sure it will get interesting, But nobody can debate that fact that many young people today have a false sense of self-perception, and that too many people apply to law school because of a lack of anything else to do. THIS is why we have too many grads



no shit sherlock. news flash, ur revelation is common knowledge.

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dood
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby dood » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:46 pm

what we really need is a good ol' WAR or terrible DISEASE to get rid of a large portion of the population. and jesus christ we just need to let old people die so we can have their jerbs.

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Ben Franklin
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby Ben Franklin » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:47 pm

eric922 wrote:Or the government could step in and tell these schools that they have to bring their employment numbers up or they lose qualification for federal loans. That would solve the problem pretty quickly.


This is a great idea, but might be somewhat unfair and difficult for schools because they cannot control outside factors like the strength of the economy. It isn't the schools' fault that there aren't enough spots for their graduates.

071816
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby 071816 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:48 pm

Here we go...

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Ben Franklin
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby Ben Franklin » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:57 pm

Blaming the schools isn't the way to go. You can't blame them for seeing a chance to cash in. It's a pretty lucrative racket. It still begins with Johnny DragonballZ applying to law school because he has been a brain child all his life but can't figure out what to do. Johnny DragonballZ applies, gets accetped because of his grades and LSAT, but probably wouldn't get a job even if there wasn't a shortage. Johnny DragonballZ lacks the social acumen to be a successful lawyer anyways, hands in his pockets all the time, gets nervous talking to more than 2 people at once, and would hate working biglaw hours because it would interfere with his Warcraft time

walkingpanda
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby walkingpanda » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:59 pm

Ben Franklin wrote:Blaming the schools isn't the way to go. You can't blame them for seeing a chance to cash in. It's a pretty lucrative racket. It still begins with Johnny DragonballZ applying to law school because he has been a brain child all his life but can't figure out what to do. Johnny DragonballZ applies, gets accetped because of his grades and LSAT, but probably wouldn't get a job even if there wasn't a shortage. Johnny DragonballZ lacks the social acumen to be a successful lawyer anyways, hands in his pockets all the time, gets nervous talking to more than 2 people at once, and would hate working biglaw hours because it would interfere with his Warcraft time



I choose to blame Johnny DragonballZ, the schools, and Elle Woods.

eric922
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby eric922 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:03 pm

Ben Franklin wrote:
eric922 wrote:Or the government could step in and tell these schools that they have to bring their employment numbers up or they lose qualification for federal loans. That would solve the problem pretty quickly.


This is a great idea, but might be somewhat unfair and difficult for schools because they cannot control outside factors like the strength of the economy. It isn't the schools' fault that there aren't enough spots for their graduates.

Those schools are being funded by taxpayer backed loans. If the students they let in don't get jobs to pay back those loans then the taxpayers suffer. It is perfectly reasonable for the government to tell schools that aren't meeting employment numbers that they won't be eligible for federal backed loans. Or here is another solution. You may like this one better since, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, you seem like the type who is opposed to government interfering in the marketplace. How about the ABA steps in and removes accreditation from these schools? The AMA did something similar with medical schools back in the 70s when there was a danger of training too many doctors.

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Ben Franklin
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby Ben Franklin » Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:09 pm

eric922 wrote:Those schools are being funded by taxpayer backed loans. If the students they let in don't get jobs to pay back those loans then the taxpayers suffer. It is perfectly reasonable for the government to tell schools that aren't meeting employment numbers that they won't be eligible for federal backed loans. Or here is another solution. You may like this one better since, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, you seem like the type who is opposed to government interfering in the marketplace. How about the ABA steps in and removes accreditation from these schools? The AMA did something similar with medical schools back in the 70s when there was a danger of training too many doctors.


I think you are on the right path there, but there would have to be more tweaking to the idea to make it feasible. Look at it from a business standpoint, and let's say you own the school. You are simply providing the services requested by your customer, in this case the student. You cannot help the fact that firms in your area aren't hiring. A good solution might be to cap enrollment at schools that do not meet certain employment standards. This way they are prevented from admitting too many students in the first place. So for example, a school that only employs say 60% of graduates in a JD required position, would have their next years enrollment reduced by 40%

And yes, to keep government from meddling you could task that responsibility to the ABA and have the consequences be adverse to the accreditation rather than the federal loans.

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Tom Joad
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby Tom Joad » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:33 pm

OP what school do you go to?

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justonemoregame
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby justonemoregame » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:37 pm

The real reason there aren't enough jobs to go around: Because there aren't enough jobs to go around!!

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smaug_
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby smaug_ » Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:46 pm

Someone did poorly on the LSAT.

canarykb
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby canarykb » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:03 pm

Ben Franklin wrote:Here is my theory on why there is a high amount of unemployment amongst law grads. We all know that there are not enough jobs out there to support the amount of students graduating every year. This is 50% the fault of law schools, but also 50% the fault of the applicants.

I theorize that roughly 40-50% of applicants are of the variety that have no business attending law school in the first place. Just because you may be "smart" and can "do well on a standardized test" does not mean that you can, or should, be an attorney. You are better served being a math major, engineer, or something of that nature. Being an attorney requires a blend of social acumen, street smarts, book smarts, and business sense. Again, JUST BECAUSE YOU CAN DO WELL ON THE LSAT DOES NOT MEAN YOU SHOULD BE APPLYING TO LAW SCHOOL. Unfortunately, law schools will continue to accept and graduate these individuals at a high rate, so long as they have "the numbers".

Yes, there aren't enough jobs to go around, we are all well aware of this fact. But the problem is that too many of you think law is for you, when it isn't. The culture of this country breeds young individuals that carry a grandiose sense of self-perception and entitlement. The result is an influx of kids who think law is for them, because they "were destined to be somebody".

Law might not be for you if:

1. You chose law for lack of something better to do with your life. Having a JD doesn't mean you've made it. Like anything else, it takes years of practice and dedication to be successful. Many young people today do not realize this.

2. You have no friends, rarely get out, and are socially inept. The legal profession, no matter what type of law you choose to practice, requires individuals to have a certain level of social skills. And yes, this includes people that have 10,000+ posts on message boards. This does not, by any stretch of the imagination, make you cool. You might have finally found a way to fit in by becoming a "regular", but many of you are the epitome of the type of person that has no business being an attorney.

3. You think that because you are "smart", that you should be an attorney. I know plenty of attorneys that are dumb as a box of rocks, but are great attorneys.

4. You think that your ability to learn the methods and techniques of a standardized test means that you will be, or should be, an attorney. Again, this is certainly not the case.

5. You think that being a lawyer will make you rich. This sort of ties into reason #1, but has its own number because many people falsely assume that all lawyers make a ton of money. Plenty do, but only those that were dedicated and worked hard. Law is not a get rich quick business.

This rant is mainly directed at those on this forum who discourage people from going to law school, when they themselves should not be going to law school either. I say everyone should follow their dreams, but unless people stop having a blind sense of self-perception, they will keep applying, attending, and graduating in masses. And before some of you on here discourage someone from going to law school, look in the mirror.


What a fucking obnoxious OP, seriously. No one knows for sure what career they'll be good at until they do it. All we can do is make our best guess on what draws us and putting in the research. The legal field is broad and the skills required by different positions vary. If you talk to anyone with a successful & interesting career/life they will tell you the mixture of haphazard decisions, luck, mistakes & hard work that got them there.

I'm not saying that to advocate that everyone should go to law school or that there is nothing wrong with the legal market. I'm just saying that OP's assertion that the problem with law school is that there's too many dumbass 20 somethings who don't know exactly what career they are right for is obnoxious and I might say reeks of "a grandiose sense of self-perception and entitlement."

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Tom Joad
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby Tom Joad » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:09 pm

OP's post history is gold.

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Elston Gunn
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby Elston Gunn » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:13 pm

What are the legal job prospects like these days for condescending assholes?

eric922
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Re: The real reason why there aren't enough jobs to go around

Postby eric922 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:27 pm

Tom Joad wrote:OP's post history is gold.

I just looked at some of the OP's posts. You're right. And now I'll freely admit, I got trolled.




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