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(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
leo2013
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:05 am

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Postby leo2013 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:17 am

[edit]~ [/edit]

I apologize to everybody here. That was some serious bashing, but I deserved it.

I am working with LSAC to send in my transcript and I am going to disclose it to all the schools I am applying.

twentypercentmore, I understand your concern. however,
1) It was more of a stupid oversight/wishful thinking of me rather than knowingly break the codes.
2) I fully expect that they will be taking away my acceptions. I would have done much better if I diclose it in the first place. I wish I were as wise as banjo.
Last edited by leo2013 on Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:19 am, edited 10 times in total.

Redfactor
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby Redfactor » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:05 am

wow

Makes me warm inside to know one day you're going to help add to the stellar reputation of lawyers as being ethical practitioners.

Besides that, you know that those acceptances and scholarships you got happened while you were in direct competition with many people on these boards. The same people you're now asking "HELP" from on how best to keep what you've been awarded. Slimy move, pal. I seriously have very, very little respect for you.

So, let's work this out so you can keep those deserved funds, eh?

Do not do #2. It will be found out. But if you think you're capable of out lawyering an elite law school and proving that you didn't somehow defraud them of the scholarship funds, then by all means, do #2. Otherwise, enjoy failing your ethics board and having to repay that money with no law job.

wrote:Wisconsin Supreme Court Rules state “[a]n applicant for bar admission shall establish good moral character and fitness to practice law.” Such an applicant must establish, to the satisfaction of the Board of Bar Examiners (BBE), that the applicant possesses the requisite character and fitness. (See SCR 40.06) Note that the burden is on the applicant to establish all necessary qualifications (SCR 40.07) and that the BBE “shall decline to certify the character and fitness of an applicant who knowingly makes a materially false statement of a material fact or who fails to disclose a fact necessary to correct a misapprehension known by the applicant to have arisen in connection with his or her application.” (SCR 40.06(3))


http://www.law.wisc.edu/current/rtf/04.0.html

That's from Wisconsin. I'm sure all states have basically the same thing.


For advice on what you should do, I am not lifting another finger to help you. Read the quote and figure it out, smart guy.

NYstate
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby NYstate » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:21 am

[Redacted]
Thanks for your time in advance.



Your best option is to disclose to the schools. I am not sure that withdrawing makes the information on the application disappear. The previous app will be in record.

Personally, I don't think it will hurt you. If it does, there is nothing you can do about it, because you have to disclose this information. Maybe you can ask if you can withdraw if it becomes an issue.

Spend some time figuring out how you are going to explain this. I would go with something like I made a mistake and didnt disclose this program because I didn't complete my degree.
Last edited by NYstate on Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Danteshek
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby Danteshek » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:22 am

Disclose and offer to withdraw and/or offer to give up all scholarship funds as the result of your (serious) omission.

NYstate
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby NYstate » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:33 am

Danteshek wrote:Disclose and offer to withdraw and/or offer to give up all scholarship funds as the result of your (serious) omission.

Eh, I wouldn't offer to withdraw until the school tells you how they are reacting. If OP has good scores and a completed masters degree and discloses now, they may not care. They may not have cared if OP had just been truthful in the first place. Let them tell you the best way to proceed. If they are going to rescind, ask if you can withdraw and reapplying next year.

OP: you need to explain this as an error. That you would consider brazening it out with the school shows terrible judgment. From your post it is apparent that you did this intentionally to game your chances of admission, I hope you aren't identifiable to schools from that post. Don't try to justify by claming TLS says only undergrad GPA counts. That wisdom is based on how GPAs are calculated by LSDAS and reported by schools. No one on TLS has ever advised not disclosing a transcript. Those are two different things and you know that.
Last edited by NYstate on Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

Redfactor
Posts: 374
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby Redfactor » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:52 am

NYstate wrote:
leo2013 wrote:Several years ago, I attended a PHD program of Biochem at a top25 graduate school A. I was not doing too well on first year(GPA around 3.3), and I realized to become a scientist was probably not what I wanted. So I withdraw from the school A, and attend another graduate school B and graduated with M.S on computer science.(GPA 3.7)

So this cycle when I applied LS, I didnot choose to disclose this part of my education because I think it would seemed like a PHD fail to Adcomm . Besides, I think, why does it even matter since the TLS wisdom says only uGPA counts when applying LS? Also, when I applied to school B, they told me they don't need transcript from school A; they only wanted to see my undergraduate transcript. Now, after several years of WE as a software engineer, I think it's really irrelevant that I had that short failed attempt with a biochem PHD.

Anyways, now I have offers from several decent LS(one T20 with full ride, and another T14 with some $). But today when a friend with similar situation talked with me , she pointed out that such omission would count as academic dishonesty and would get me expelled.

After doing some research, I think she is right and I am very scared :cry: . I am contemplating with several options:
1) I would immediately contact with Schools which admitted me and confess to them and send the omitted transcript to the school or LSAC.
2) I would stay on the dark side and try to do a ferpa-block on school A and hope it may work. :evil:
3) I am even thinking of withdraw all my applications out right and try apply next cycle with all my transcripts complete to start with. I mean, if I tell those schools I omitted a transcript now, wouldn't they put me on a black list besides rescind my admission if they think I cheated on them deliberately? :oops: In the mean time, I can retake my LSAT in June to improve my chances.

Thoughts/Advices plz. Basically, I want to know the typical reaction of adcomms under this situation. Would they rescind my admission out right? or would they give me a chance and look at my PHD transcript and realize it's nothing major and would keep my acceptance package?

Thanks for your time in advance.



Your best option is to disclose to the schools. I am not sure that withdrawing makes the information on the application disappear. The previous app will be in record.

Personally, I don't think it will hurt you. If it does, there is nothing you can do about it, because you have to disclose this information. Maybe you can ask if you can withdraw if it becomes an issue.

Spend some time figuring out how you are going to explain this. I would go with something like I made a mistake and didnt disclose this program because I didn't complete my degree.



But it was on purpose. S/he obviously attempted to maneuver the system.

NYstate
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby NYstate » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:57 am

Redacted.

Whatever. People fuck up. It happens. OP has to explain it the best way she can now. Let the schools decide what they are going to do.
Last edited by NYstate on Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Redfactor
Posts: 374
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby Redfactor » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:58 am

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Last edited by Redfactor on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Redfactor
Posts: 374
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby Redfactor » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:11 am

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Last edited by Redfactor on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

leo2013
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:05 am

Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby leo2013 » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:15 am

Thanks. I am already decided to disclose---I am just trying to figure out if withdraw All applications --admissions & those on WLs, send my omitted transcript to LSAC, and start anew next cycle is a sensible thing to do.


Redfactor wrote:
Okay, so I am lifting another finger.

The BEST thing you can do is to openly air it out to the law schools. NYState was exactly right when he mentioned the possiblity of adcomms reading this thread. And your post can't be totally edited when it's quoted already, so the cat is out of the bag.

HONESTY is the best policy here, imo. In any event, you can't hide if forever and if you try, it will just result in financial ruin. So you may as well just bite the bullet and fess up, like today. If I were you, I would write a very official email to them disclosing the inaccuracy within your application and they will either work with you or not.

I haven't sat for a bar, but it seems like things can be overlooked if you're honest. Especially since you haven't been to law school so you don't quite understand the legalities of what you did.

katjust
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby katjust » Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:25 am

Just disclose and see what happens. Back when I applied to law school I briefly considered not sending transcripts for a withdrawn Ph.D. program. I realized I wasn't allowed to do this. Honestly, I don't think it made a difference to schools. They don't care about that. Just disclose now, and I don't think many if any of the schools will care even now.

Brixton
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby Brixton » Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:42 pm

While I wonder just how often "omitted" transcripts are really caught or found either by schools or the bar, the right thing to do is to just tell the school about it. Even if the bar or school would never find out, an individual's personal code of ethics demands it be brought to light.

WaltWhite
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:17 am

Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby WaltWhite » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:22 pm

leo2013 wrote:Several years ago, I attended a PHD program which I withdrawed , and attended another graduate school and finished with a M.S on another subject . When I applied LS this cycle, I didnot disclose this part of my education. (Part of me was thinking wishfully that education w/o a degree earned doesn't count. ) Anyways, now I have offers from several decent LS. But today when a friend with similar situation talked with me , she pointed out that such omission would count as academical dishonesty and would get me expelled. After doing some research, I think she is right and I am very scared :cry: .

Thoughts/Advices plz. Basically, I want to know the typical reaction of adcomms under this situation. Would they rescind my admission out right? or would they give me a chance and look at my PHD transcript and realize it's nothing major and would keep my admission as it is?

Thanks for your time in advance.

[edit] I admit what I did was wrong . I just want to know how to fix it or even if it's fixable at all. Even if the LS adcomm forgive me, would it come back haunt me when Bar C&F finds out that I didnot disclose that transcript initially? Or it's not too late to confess? Part of me want to call it quits and stay with my current uninspiring job to avoid further humiliation. Sigh.



Agreed, you're current uninspiring grammatical skills (or lack thereof) are humiliation enough.

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Emma.
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby Emma. » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:26 pm

WaltWhite wrote:
leo2013 wrote:Several years ago, I attended a PHD program which I withdrawed , and attended another graduate school and finished with a M.S on another subject . When I applied LS this cycle, I didnot disclose this part of my education. (Part of me was thinking wishfully that education w/o a degree earned doesn't count. ) Anyways, now I have offers from several decent LS. But today when a friend with similar situation talked with me , she pointed out that such omission would count as academical dishonesty and would get me expelled. After doing some research, I think she is right and I am very scared :cry: .

Thoughts/Advices plz. Basically, I want to know the typical reaction of adcomms under this situation. Would they rescind my admission out right? or would they give me a chance and look at my PHD transcript and realize it's nothing major and would keep my admission as it is?

Thanks for your time in advance.

[edit] I admit what I did was wrong . I just want to know how to fix it or even if it's fixable at all. Even if the LS adcomm forgive me, would it come back haunt me when Bar C&F finds out that I didnot disclose that transcript initially? Or it's not too late to confess? Part of me want to call it quits and stay with my current uninspiring job to avoid further humiliation. Sigh.



Agreed, you're current uninspiring grammatical skills (or lack thereof) are humiliation enough.


Lol.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:31 pm

Do NOT do this. This is dishonest and idiotic.

Big Dog
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby Big Dog » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:33 pm

.deleted
Last edited by Big Dog on Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mephistopheles
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby mephistopheles » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:35 pm

leo2013 wrote:withdrawed



some MS, huh

toothbrush
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby toothbrush » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:39 pm

academical

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:50 pm

To be fair, it sounds kinda like English isn't the OP's first language.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:56 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:To be fair, it sounds kinda like English isn't the OP's first language.


Fluent in CheatingAsshole though.

toothbrush
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby toothbrush » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:56 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:To be fair, it sounds kinda like English isn't the OP's first language.


Fluent in CheatingAsshole though.

being unethical transcends language

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:57 pm

toothbrush wrote:
John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:To be fair, it sounds kinda like English isn't the OP's first language.


Fluent in CheatingAsshole though.

being unethical transcends language

:lol: :lol: :lol:

(Just saying there's plenty of reason for scorn without resorting to attacks on the grammar. :wink: )

WaltWhite
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby WaltWhite » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:58 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:To be fair, it sounds kinda like English isn't the OP's first language.


Regardless. Various law schools explicitly explained on their applications how much they value clear, concise writing. What was posted above is neither clear nor concise, and I think we can safely assume no firm will let such an apparent lack of grammatical foresight slide by.

This shall sound harsh, but whatever. One can be a lawyer anywhere. It seems kind of silly to pursue a legal career in a country whose language you consistently butcher.

toothbrush
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby toothbrush » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:59 pm

WaltWhite wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:To be fair, it sounds kinda like English isn't the OP's first language.


Regardless. Various law schools explicitly explained on their applications how much they value clear, concise writing. What was posted above is neither clear nor concise, and I think we can safely assume no firm will let such an apparent lack of grammatical foresight slide by.

This shall sound harsh, but whatever. One can be a lawyer anywhere. It seems kind of silly to pursue a legal career in a country whose language you consistently butcher.

to be fair there are people who pursue legal degrees here and take them overseas to their respective countries. that or an LLM.

WaltWhite
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Re: Help -- Omitting a transcript from a withdrawn PHD program

Postby WaltWhite » Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:00 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
(Just saying there's plenty of reason for scorn without resorting to attacks on the grammar. :wink: )



Attacks on grammar? What about the attack my eyes, mind, and education just sustained from reading that garbage?
A lawyer must write and speak rather decently to be successful. You can't go shitting all over yourself with your poor grammar and expect to do relatively well.

Unless of course, OP would like to write all legal briefs in crayon, backwards.




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