Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

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Undergrad Choices

Princeton at sticker
37
45%
USC with a full ride
32
39%
Wash U with guaranteed acceptance to Med School; 1/2 tuition scholarship
14
17%
 
Total votes: 83

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AreJay711
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:11 pm

I think I'll enjoy being a lawyer knowing what it is really like but it is really hard to decide that until you have worked a legal job. Go to Princeton, work for a few years to figure out what it is you like, and then decide whether to pursue that career or another.

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Gunnar Stahl
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby Gunnar Stahl » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:11 pm

ImNoScar wrote: Major in something useful that'll get you recruited straight out of UG.

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Mike12188
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby Mike12188 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:13 pm

bananasplitz wrote:
gronkisgronk wrote:sinfiery, i'm talking about undergrad.

My parents are willing to pay 240k for my education. In other words, if i go to princeton, i have to pay my own way through law school. If i go to USC, where i won't have to pay a dime, they will pay for law school. Wash U will cost 120k, which means i will have 120k left over for law school.

I am in a very fortunate financial position, and i recognize this, but i also want to make the right decision for law school. (I know that interests can change, but as of right now i want to go into law.)


If you go to USC, you'll likely graduate with a better GPA and benefit from the strong alumni network on the west coast.

A friend of mine chose USC over Princeton and he was happy with his decision


+1
Princeton is great but usc isn't bad especially if you major in something useful. Plus have you ever seen Princeton chicks? Woof.

NYstate
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby NYstate » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:37 pm

My last post in this thread- Don't be afraid of a lower GPA from
Princeton. That Ivy League grade inflation is true as rumoured. Unlike law school, getting accepted to the school is the challenge. Once you are in, you can do the work. Law school grading is an entirely different animal. Getting into law school just gives you a chance to compete in a zero sum game with your classmates.
Last edited by NYstate on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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domino
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby domino » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:40 pm

From law school perspective USC is probably better. I do think the quality of your school matters somewhat at the most selective law schools, but grades matter a lot more. USC is a well-known place where I'd guess that adcomms know that you can take a rigorous writing-intensive program, so the school quality bump might not even be high. Meanwhile, Princeton actually has a pretty brutal curve given the tippity top students you would be competing against there (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/31/educa ... ceton.html). (ETA: so I strongly disagree with poster above, not necessarily generally but just w/Princeton because they deflate grades more than peer schools.)

However, as everybody else is saying Princeton might offer you awesome opportunities besides LS that USC might not. There are employers who will recruit on-campus at a school like Princeton that I had never heard of before college--consulting firms like Bain, BCG, McKinsey, Deloitte, Accenture, banks like Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, other financey places like Lazard. Not to mention brand names like Google and other tech companies. (I'm listing these places so you can look them up if you want. In high school I owuld have been totally clueless about these things.) For companies like this, having a blue chip undergrad degree and the opportunities to make connections are a big leg up. And many careers going through that path pay just as well as law school once you factor in the price of going to law school (or even if you don't for some of them actually).

USC might well have some of these places come recruit with them as well, but perhaps not all of them and possibly not with as much success in placement. If you are interested in looking into this more I would ask to speak with their career office.

ETA 2: FWIW in your shoes I would definitely go to Princeton--but more because it's the dream than for any reasons that make sense haha. You are obviously awesome and have it in you to get a lot out of wherever you go!
Last edited by domino on Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby franklyscarlet » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:41 pm

Since it's getting the shaft here: Was a WashU undergrad, best 4 years of my life, got an amazing education, but hey, Princeton.

NYstate
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby NYstate » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:50 pm

Lol. I lied. OP start a poll. My east coast prestige bias is showing. I know nothing about USC or Wash U, but I know what opportunities Princeton can bring. I don't think you should go to law school anyway, or even be planning on it at this point. And i think you can get a good GPA.

Law is going through a major shake up right now and the decline in applicants may continue. Who knows where it will be by the time you graduate?

sapien
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby sapien » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:56 pm

NYstate wrote:My last post in this thread- Don't be afraid of a lower GPA from
Princeton. That Ivy League grade inflation is true as rumoured. Unlike law school, getting accepted to the school is the challenge. Once you are in, you can do the work. Law school grading is an entirely different animal. Getting into law school just gives you a chance to compete in a zero sum game with your classmates.


Umm... Princeton is notorious for bucking the trend of grade inflation and instituting harsh grading restrictions. But grad schools' admissions officers know this and it generally doesn't hurt Princeton grads.

OP, if your family is willing to pay for Princeton please do yourself a huge favor and go! It's a much better education than USC (smarter peers, smaller classes, etc.) and it really does have a tangible impact on post-college employment. Whether you decide to go to law school is an open question. As for Wash U, it's kind of a milquetoast alternative to either of the other two options.

chillipepper
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby chillipepper » Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:57 pm

It's a pretty well known fact that Princeton deflates grades. So if you are dead set on law school, I'd go with USC. If you want to get a PhD in economics or math (along those lines) Princeton will give you a hefty advantage for grad school choices.

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stillwater
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby stillwater » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:01 am

USC has no name value or pull on the East Coast.

MapsMapsMaps
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby MapsMapsMaps » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:04 am

TheThriller wrote:Whats up with this flood of highschoolers asking law students where they should attend undergrad.

I feel like the OP's question is legit. This is a tough decision. Even TLS is super divided. I wish I had some sort of advice when I was choosing my undergrad. I went in entirely blind and not knowing wtf was going on. I think high schoolers these days are a different generation with access to unique sources of info (but Im 27 years old), and I for one applaud them for seeking out information as long as they dont put the cart too far in front of the horse.

Also, how many of you wish you could do undergrad again? Whether it's a change in majors or not fucking off the first 2 years and thus automatically eliminating yourself from the T-14?

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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby MapsMapsMaps » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:05 am

stillwater wrote:USC has no name value or pull on the East Coast.

I grew up on the east coast but lived in socal for 5ish years. I'd say that USC has the same prestige as UCLA, Arizona, Texas, and the other schools that sound like state/regional schools. Good school, but it's not going to make anyone pause when they see it on you resume.

FWIW, I'd go to Princeton for the same reason that people almost unanimously suggest HYS at sticker: it sticks with you forever. If it were between USC and Penn/Brown/Dartmouth, it'd be USC in a heartbeat.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:12 am

MapsMapsMaps wrote:
stillwater wrote:USC has no name value or pull on the East Coast.

I grew up on the east coast but lived in socal for 5ish years. I'd say that USC has the same prestige as UCLA, Arizona, Texas, and the other schools that sound like state/regional schools. Good school, but it's not going to make anyone pause when they see it on you resume.

FWIW, I'd go to Princeton for the same reason that people almost unanimously suggest HYS at sticker: it sticks with you forever. If it were between USC and Penn/Brown/Dartmouth, it'd be USC in a heartbeat.


This is all pretty credited.

Except SC does seem to have cache, I've seen from experience, the same way UCLA/Berkeley/NYU/lesser Ivies do. That same tier below HYS where no one gasps but everyone knows you done good. Arizona and Texas aren't really here IMO but I could be totally wrong.

eric922
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby eric922 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:13 am

MapsMapsMaps wrote:
TheThriller wrote:Whats up with this flood of highschoolers asking law students where they should attend undergrad.

I feel like the OP's question is legit. This is a tough decision. Even TLS is super divided. I wish I had some sort of advice when I was choosing my undergrad. I went in entirely blind and not knowing wtf was going on. I think high schoolers these days are a different generation with access to unique sources of info (but Im 27 years old), and I for one applaud them for seeking out information as long as they dont put the cart too far in front of the horse.

Also, how many of you wish you could do undergrad again? Whether it's a change in majors or not fucking off the first 2 years and thus automatically eliminating yourself from the T-14?

That's where killing the LSAT comes in, but I get your point. It sucks knowing I'm likely going to have to pay at least close to sticker for any T-14 simply because I slacked off.

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sinfiery
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:19 am

chillipepper wrote:It's a pretty well known fact that Princeton deflates grades. So if you are dead set on law school, I'd go with USC. If you want to get a PhD in economics or math (along those lines) Princeton will give you a hefty advantage for grad school choices.

Deflates relative to Brown, yeah but relative to your local State U they inflate.

MapsMapsMaps
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby MapsMapsMaps » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:26 am

eric922 wrote:
MapsMapsMaps wrote:
TheThriller wrote:Whats up with this flood of highschoolers asking law students where they should attend undergrad.

I feel like the OP's question is legit. This is a tough decision. Even TLS is super divided. I wish I had some sort of advice when I was choosing my undergrad. I went in entirely blind and not knowing wtf was going on. I think high schoolers these days are a different generation with access to unique sources of info (but Im 27 years old), and I for one applaud them for seeking out information as long as they dont put the cart too far in front of the horse.

Also, how many of you wish you could do undergrad again? Whether it's a change in majors or not fucking off the first 2 years and thus automatically eliminating yourself from the T-14?

That's where killing the LSAT comes in, but I get your point. It sucks knowing I'm likely going to have to pay at least close to sticker for any T-14 simply because I slacked off.

Def. I honestly think it's easier to try 20% harder in undergrad and get a 3.8 rather than a 3.4 than it is to get the 174 LSAT necessary to make up for the 3.4. Let's be honest, undergrad is pretty easy. (ETA: unless engineering, etc)
Last edited by MapsMapsMaps on Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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domino
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby domino » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:30 am

MapsMapsMaps wrote:
Also, how many of you wish you could do undergrad again? Whether it's a change in majors or not fucking off the first 2 years and thus automatically eliminating yourself from the T-14?


Oh good Lord. Definitely.

Edited for being too ragey but the gist was that there tend to be cultural issues at more selective schools. Would have gone to lower-ranked school on scholarship because I personally had a hard time dealing with them, though more "elite" schools offer awesome opportunities that can make up for those problems for many students.

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AreJay711
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:41 am

Mike12188 wrote:

Princeton is great but usc isn't bad especially if you major in something useful. Plus have you ever seen Princeton chicks? Woof.


Actually, maybe this should be your primary consideration.

DELETED

I think the answer is clear: either go to USC or take a year off, get your alcohol tolerance up and come back when you are deciding between Florida, LSU, or Georgia at full scholly.

badaboom61
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby badaboom61 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:43 am

domino wrote:
MapsMapsMaps wrote:
Also, how many of you wish you could do undergrad again? Whether it's a change in majors or not fucking off the first 2 years and thus automatically eliminating yourself from the T-14?


Oh good Lord. Definitely.

TLDR rant ahead: I went to a "good" private school (not Princeton good but solid) and it was such an emotionally/socially challenging experience. I got a great education, but there was a lot I had trouble handling. The intensely personal competition between all the type A kids and the correspondingly intense awareness of failures, the misogyny, the brutality of the sexual culture, the self-segregation into class/race-based groups that matched your admissions profile. A kind of meanness in the water that had this distinctly private school feel to it. And it was hard to get away from bad stuff because the school was so small, and there was this super fishbowl effect.

The gradual realization that students didn't come in on a level playing field in terms of their educational background, nor would most of them catch up, and that almost the kids getting graduation awards were white with 0 black kids getting awards. Not a school specific problem and I'm glad that they admitted people who hadn't had the same opportunities, but still depressing.

Maybe it wouldn't have been better somewhere else, but my family was paying the premium for the experience--not the results, which probably would have been the same had I gone to a state school on scholarship. For me personally, that was definitely not worth it.

That said, for someone who has the emotional maturity to handle the pressures at an elite school, it opens a lot of doors and opportunities for intellectual development.


I went to a large party school for practically no cost. I had a great time, had a great resume and killer GPA, and got into to law schools just as my numbers predicted I would.

There's a lot of different undergrad experiences out there. Some are different and better for different things.

I seem to be going against consensus here, but when the option is between paying your life inheritance for 4 years at grade-deflated Princeton, and drinking in SoCal for 4 years for free, for exactly the same if not better outcomes (at least terms of getting into top law schools), the choice seems pretty obvious. Princeton will open different options in different fields, but if you know you want law school USC is the clear choice.

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hephaestus
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby hephaestus » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:50 am

It is true that USC is probably the better option if OP solely wants law school. However, I'm skeptical that OP could truly figure this out as an 18 year old, and flexibility out of UG should be a top consideration.

Lumieres
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby Lumieres » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:50 am

Princeton, for sure.

Just curious: which would your parents prefer?

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BlakcMajikc
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby BlakcMajikc » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:07 am

WashU. went for undergrad. wish i could repeat those years over and over for the rest of my life. all of your options are great. go for a visit and see where you feel most comfortable.

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franklyscarlet
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby franklyscarlet » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:21 am

BlakcMajikc wrote:WashU. went for undergrad. wish i could repeat those years over and over for the rest of my life. all of your options are great. go for a visit and see where you feel most comfortable.


Truth. WashU is amazing.

gronkisgronk
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby gronkisgronk » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:23 am

Thanks for all the replies!

What I have gathered from the previous posts is that if I am sure I want to go to Law School, USC is the better choice.
If I want more flexibility, Princeton is the better choice.

At this point, I want to go to law school, but as many of you have said, I'm 18 - what the hell do i know?

On that note, what majors do you guys think I should pursue that would open up the most opportunities (since I'm assuming most of you already went through undergrad and have seen which majors are more successful in the job market)?

To the poster that was wondering, my parents are putting the decision entirely in my hands.

Lumieres
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Re: Princeton or Scholarship School for undergrad?

Postby Lumieres » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:21 am

gronkisgronk wrote:Thanks for all the replies!

What I have gathered from the previous posts is that if I am sure I want to go to Law School, USC is the better choice.
If I want more flexibility, Princeton is the better choice.

At this point, I want to go to law school, but as many of you have said, I'm 18 - what the hell do i know?

On that note, what majors do you guys think I should pursue that would open up the most opportunities (since I'm assuming most of you already went through undergrad and have seen which majors are more successful in the job market)?

To the poster that was wondering, my parents are putting the decision entirely in my hands.


If you go to a school like Princeton, it doesn't really matter. I have friends who graduated with degrees in Econ, physics, English, etc., and they all took jobs that were not related to their degrees. Major in what you would enjoy most, but start showing interest in possible career paths through concentrated coursework and internships.




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