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romothesavior
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby romothesavior » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:05 pm

rad lulz wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
wannabelawstudent wrote:What does latham mean? Also, why do most people flame out of big law after a couple of years?

Latham is a pretty highly rated Vault firm that laid off a ton of people, a lot of it via stealth layoffs. Their behavior was pretty egregious, and their brand is now pretty much synonymous with deferrals and layoffs. It's become a verb now in the legal hiring vernacular.

And some people don't like it, some people aren't cut out for it, some decide to lateral elsewhere for different opportunities, some people are terminated for any variety of reasons. Same with any job really. But turnover, especially at the truly big firms, is really, really high.

It's more that they laid off first years after they had only been at work for a couple months, thereby destroying careers and destroying hopes and dreams

Right, hence the "behavior was pretty egregious." A lot of firms did some shady shit, but they were pretty much the worst of the worst.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:13 pm

romothesavior wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
wannabelawstudent wrote:What does latham mean? Also, why do most people flame out of big law after a couple of years?

Latham is a pretty highly rated Vault firm that laid off a ton of people, a lot of it via stealth layoffs. Their behavior was pretty egregious, and their brand is now pretty much synonymous with deferrals and layoffs. It's become a verb now in the legal hiring vernacular.

And some people don't like it, some people aren't cut out for it, some decide to lateral elsewhere for different opportunities, some people are terminated for any variety of reasons. Same with any job really. But turnover, especially at the truly big firms, is really, really high.

It's more that they laid off first years after they had only been at work for a couple months, thereby destroying careers and destroying hopes and dreams

Right, hence the "behavior was pretty egregious." A lot of firms did some shady shit, but they were pretty much the worst of the worst.


Classic XO monikers include "Latham Touched Me" and "United Against A Nuclear Latham"

BigZuck
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby BigZuck » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:33 pm

This thread gives me a sad. Really wish schools would stop jacking up tuition and it sucks that interest accrues in school.

jdmonkey
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby jdmonkey » Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:57 pm

Well apps are down this year, which would make one think that tuition will respond. The problem are all these tier 3 and tier 4 law schools that flood the legal market. Medical schools don't allow this to happen. These lower ranked schools have almost all their students taking out 100% loans to pay. It is sickening.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:00 pm

jdmonkey wrote:Well apps are down this year, which would make one think that tuition will respond. The problem are all these tier 3 and tier 4 law schools that flood the legal market. Medical schools don't allow this to happen. These lower ranked schools have almost all their students taking out 100% loans to pay. It is sickening.


lol at you thinking this is a rational market that isn't propped up by government guaranteed loans.

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bk1
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:06 pm

I don't think 100k is soulcrushing (it is still a lot though), but I do think it is a lot of debt to take on at WUSTL if you don't really want to work at a small firm doing small firm type work especially when there is a serious chance (1/3 or so) of not getting a legal job at all. I say that because OP (based on what little evidence we have) seems to care about biglaw.

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bk1
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:08 pm

jdmonkey wrote:Well apps are down this year, which would make one think that tuition will respond. The problem are all these tier 3 and tier 4 law schools that flood the legal market. Medical schools don't allow this to happen. These lower ranked schools have almost all their students taking out 100% loans to pay. It is sickening.

I don't think you'll ever see a school cut tuition. They are going to cut students before they do that (which they already have). You have and will see increases that are in line with inflation (e.g. 2-3%) but 2-3% of $45-50k is still in the thousands of dollars.

jdmonkey
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby jdmonkey » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:22 pm

The incentive would be to increase their rankings in us news. Alabama moved up to 21 this year prob cause their tuition is dirt cheap. If like NU cut its tuition to 35k they would prob become a top 5 school overnight. Higher yield and more apps. When a school moves up in the rankings alumni tend to donate more.

jdmonkey
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby jdmonkey » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:23 pm

Also the law schools fixed costs are much more than the variable costs, so they only hurt themselves reducing students. It hurts their bottom line.

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bk1
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby bk1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:25 pm

jdmonkey wrote:The incentive would be to increase their rankings in us news. Alabama moved up to 21 this year prob cause their tuition is dirt cheap. If like NU cut its tuition to 35k they would prob become a top 5 school overnight. Higher yield and more apps. When a school moves up in the rankings alumni tend to donate more.

They aren't going to do that. They would give out scholarships to cover the cost before they actually decreased tuition.

rad lulz
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:30 pm

Ruxin1 wrote:Classic XO monikers include "Latham Touched Me" and "United Against A Nuclear Latham"

Classic memes include Bob Dell variations

jdmonkey
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby jdmonkey » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:34 pm

Someone should run for congress and make a law saying you can't take out a student loan unless you can put down 20% of the total cost. Some of these loans are larger than mortgages. That would stop the law schools from being able to charge whatever they want in tuition.

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danitt
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby danitt » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:37 pm

jdmonkey wrote:Someone should run for congress and make a law saying you can't take out a student loan unless you can put down 20% of the total cost. Some of these loans are larger than mortgages. That would stop the law schools from being able to charge whatever they want in tuition.

Or limit law school to people who can put the money down.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby wannabelawstudent » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:40 pm

danitt wrote:
jdmonkey wrote:Someone should run for congress and make a law saying you can't take out a student loan unless you can put down 20% of the total cost. Some of these loans are larger than mortgages. That would stop the law schools from being able to charge whatever they want in tuition.

Or limit law school to people who can put the money down.

What? Both these ideas would kill people from a lower socioeconomic status from ever attending law school. Which is something they actively try to prevent.

jdmonkey
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby jdmonkey » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:43 pm

Do poor students who take out 100% loans default more or less than 50%. That needs to be studied to figure out if the poor are being helped or screwed by student loans that don't require a deposit.

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danitt
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby danitt » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:47 pm

wannabelawstudent wrote:
danitt wrote:
jdmonkey wrote:Someone should run for congress and make a law saying you can't take out a student loan unless you can put down 20% of the total cost. Some of these loans are larger than mortgages. That would stop the law schools from being able to charge whatever they want in tuition.

Or limit law school to people who can put the money down.

What? Both these ideas would kill people from a lower socioeconomic status from ever attending law school. Which is something they actively try to prevent.

That's what I was saying wannabe.

09042014
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:49 pm

jdmonkey wrote:The incentive would be to increase their rankings in us news. Alabama moved up to 21 this year prob cause their tuition is dirt cheap. If like NU cut its tuition to 35k they would prob become a top 5 school overnight. Higher yield and more apps. When a school moves up in the rankings alumni tend to donate more.


Because students turn down 60K scholarships (which is what 35k tuition is equal to) to go to CCN (or even MPVB) at sticker by the dozens and dozens.

Student quality wouldn't go up. And even if it did, student quality doesn't make up that much of the USNEWS. And USENEWs is overrated for alumni donations at legit schools.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:50 pm

danitt wrote:
wannabelawstudent wrote:
danitt wrote:
jdmonkey wrote:Someone should run for congress and make a law saying you can't take out a student loan unless you can put down 20% of the total cost. Some of these loans are larger than mortgages. That would stop the law schools from being able to charge whatever they want in tuition.

Or limit law school to people who can put the money down.

What? Both these ideas would kill people from a lower socioeconomic status from ever attending law school. Which is something they actively try to prevent.

That's what I was saying wannabe.


It's a slippery argument either way.

09042014
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:51 pm

You can't discharge student loans. You'll be the banks/uncle Sams bitch til you die, but you'll pay.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby wannabelawstudent » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:51 pm

danitt wrote:
wannabelawstudent wrote:
danitt wrote:
jdmonkey wrote:Someone should run for congress and make a law saying you can't take out a student loan unless you can put down 20% of the total cost. Some of these loans are larger than mortgages. That would stop the law schools from being able to charge whatever they want in tuition.

Or limit law school to people who can put the money down.

What? Both these ideas would kill people from a lower socioeconomic status from ever attending law school. Which is something they actively try to prevent.

That's what I was saying wannabe.

I guess it flew over my head. I thought you were saying they should limit law schools to people you can pay for it going in (meaning no loans). Is that right?

09042014
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby 09042014 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:53 pm

They should just do it school by school based on how many grads are paying their shit back.

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Ruxin1
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:54 pm

A 10% down-payment wouldn't be the worst thing in the world - you would stop people from just doing boalt @ 293k.
Last edited by Ruxin1 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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danitt
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby danitt » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:54 pm

wannabelawstudent wrote:I guess it flew over my head. I thought you were saying they should limit law schools to people you can pay for it going in (meaning no loans). Is that right?

Jdmonkey was said that his suggestion would stop law schools from being able to charge whatever they wanted. My contention was that that wouldn't necessarily happen and the adverse effect of limiting law school to those who could afford it would.

wannabelawstudent
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby wannabelawstudent » Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:56 pm

danitt wrote:
wannabelawstudent wrote:I guess it flew over my head. I thought you were saying they should limit law schools to people you can pay for it going in (meaning no loans). Is that right?

Jdmonkey was said that his suggestion would stop law schools from being able to charge whatever they wanted. My contention was that that wouldn't necessarily happen and the adverse effect of limiting law school to those who could afford it would.

Oh ok I gotcha. Thanks. Yeah sorry a downpayment is a bad idea. I mean. How much would we be talking about anyways.

jdmonkey
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Re: Wash U 130K scholarship v. NU and Gtown Full Sticker

Postby jdmonkey » Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:01 pm

20 percent just like a mortgage. Until there is research that the vast majority ofppl taking out 100% loans aren't defaulting. Or else you may be giving loans under the guise of helping the poor when they may be getting screwed.




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