How are these softs

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ZVBXRPL
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Re: How are these softs

Postby ZVBXRPL » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:09 pm

What do you mean by "better numbers"? (173 v. 168--i agree w u but in a case where they get 169 v. 167-168, it should be close).

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: How are these softs

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:10 pm

ZVBXRPL wrote:What do you mean by "better numbers"? (173 v. 168--i agree w u but in a case where they get 169 v. 167-168, it should be close).

Depends how badly they need the 169 for their medians. And depends where your GPA falls in relation to the 169's GPA. But generally, yes, better numbers trump softs. USNWR doesn't report applicants' softs.

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: How are these softs

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:12 pm

ZVBXRPL wrote:What do you mean by "better numbers"? (173 v. 168--i agree w u but in a case where they get 169 v. 167-168, it should be close).


Thats an optimistic point of view... its one I subscribe to, but not the one generally supported by TLS

It really depends on the school - number heavy schools it wouldn't help you if you're down a point, at more holistic schools, it would be taken into account along with the courses you've taken, your LORs, etc. etc.

Mind you, if you fall around the percentile breaks, shit gets different

ZVBXRPL
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Re: How are these softs

Postby ZVBXRPL » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:23 pm

What are some examples of number heavy and holistic schools?

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guano
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Re: How are these softs

Postby guano » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:29 pm

ZVBXRPL wrote:What are some examples of number heavy and holistic schools?

Holistic: Yale, Stanford
Number heavy: everyone else

That being said, some schools are very military friendly, just like others are notoriously splitter friendly.
Also, non-trads (typically, older than 30) are extremely unpredictable, especially if they have an interesting track record in the meantime

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How are these softs

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:36 am

just concentrate on #'s for now

ZVBXRPL
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Re: How are these softs

Postby ZVBXRPL » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:36 pm

I was offered to be a TA for a Court and Constitution professor. Is it worth it? Or is it soft overkill?

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dnptan
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Re: How are these softs

Postby dnptan » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:58 pm

guano wrote:
ZVBXRPL wrote:What are some examples of number heavy and holistic schools?

Holistic: Yale, Stanford
Number heavy: everyone else

That being said, some schools are very military friendly, just like others are notoriously splitter friendly.
Also, non-trads (typically, older than 30) are extremely unpredictable, especially if they have an interesting track record in the meantime


UC Berkeley is also more hollistic than most schools.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How are these softs

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:59 pm

ZVBXRPL wrote:I was offered to be a TA for a Court and Constitution professor. Is it worth it? Or is it soft overkill?


soft over kill for sure.

put that effort into the LSAT. don't be a slave to a professor.

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wert3813
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Re: How are these softs

Postby wert3813 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:11 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
ZVBXRPL wrote:I was offered to be a TA for a Court and Constitution professor. Is it worth it? Or is it soft overkill?


soft over kill for sure.

put that effort into the LSAT. don't be a slave to a professor.


Worth it only for a kick ass letter of rec. Assuming this time could not be more valuable elsewhere.

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wert3813
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Re: How are these softs

Postby wert3813 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:12 pm

guano wrote:
ZVBXRPL wrote:What are some examples of number heavy and holistic schools?

Holistic: Yale, Stanford, Cal
Number heavy: everyone else

That being said, some schools are very military friendly, just like others are notoriously splitter friendly.
Also, non-trads (typically, older than 30) are extremely unpredictable, especially if they have an interesting track record in the meantime

ZVBXRPL
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Re: How are these softs

Postby ZVBXRPL » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:14 pm

Agreed. Paired with a sub par LSAT score, extensive work experience and extra curricular work are worth their weight in paper.
Notwithstanding the TA position, what would a good letter of recommendation consist of?
Last edited by ZVBXRPL on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How are these softs

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:16 pm

a sub par LSAT will not get you anywhere worthwhile. Don't put your time on extra curricular crap (unless your applying for the Rhodes). Concentrate on that LSAT.

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wert3813
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Re: How are these softs

Postby wert3813 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:20 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:a sub par LSAT will not get you anywhere worthwhile. Don't put your time on extra curricular crap (unless your applying for the Rhodes). Concentrate on that LSAT.


Essentially this. I'm about to post something about how I think softs matter in a certain specific way that TLS sometimes misses, but if you are trying to bump softs in order to make up for an LSAT and you haven't taken it three times you are doing it wrong. Retake.

Softs matter when we are talking about a 171 3.92 and a 170 4.12 at a school with a median of 169. But this is about separating you from people who have basically the same numbers as you. The LSAT is going to put you in a whole different category.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How are these softs

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:24 pm

ZVBXRPL wrote:Notwithstanding the TA position, what would a good letter of recommendation consist of?


law schools only care about how smart you are and your work ethic. A good letter of rec would say:

"I have sent X amount of students to top 30 law schools and Bobby is in the top 3 percent of those students."

This alone would make an excellent letter of rec. But it's hard to get.

Also, "compared to Bobby's classmates, he is #2 in the physics department for the class of 2016" AND "I almost always use Bobby's work as the curve for the class, since he obtains the highest grade" AND "Bobby works hard to get those grades and does not just fly by with an A without putting the effort"

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How are these softs

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:26 pm

wert3813 wrote: The LSAT is going to put you in a whole different category.


This.

High LSAT score is so rare. It is incredibly attractive to ad coms, causing them to have boners when they see one. It's like Adriana Lima in a club with average looking gurlz. Who will the doods hit on?

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: How are these softs

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:28 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
ZVBXRPL wrote:Notwithstanding the TA position, what would a good letter of recommendation consist of?


law schools only care about how smart you are and your work ethic. A good letter of rec would say:

"I have sent X amount of students to top 30 law schools and Bobby is in the top 3 percent of those students."

This alone would make an excellent letter of rec. But it's hard to get.

Also, "compared to Bobby's classmates, he is #2 in the physics department for the class of 2016" AND "I almost always use Bobby's work as the curve for the class, since he obtains the highest grade" AND "Bobby works hard to get those grades and does not just fly by with an A without putting the effort"


Speaking of boners, whats up with you and bobby?

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How are these softs

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:29 pm

lol. Bobby was just the first name that came to my mind. You can substitute his name to whomever you want. IDC. just get the point I am trying to articulate.

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wert3813
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Re: How are these softs

Postby wert3813 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:38 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
None. No one will care. It's all about that GPA/LSAT.


I'm going to take a slightly different view here. This could help. Softs work in two ways.

1st, the way everyone talks about. I won a Rhodes, therefore I outperform my numbers.

2nd, this idea of having a thread throughout your application. Adcoms like students who know why they want to go to law school and can show legit, solid evidence that they have worked in that area. "I want to do international human rights law and I spent 2 years working in the Congo working with rape victims." I want to do immigration law and I spent three years teaching at a low income school in Texas." etc.

They are going to see through fake experience (or perhaps lacking is a better word). I volunteered two hours a week couple semesters ago at an AIDS clinic and now I want to represent HIV patients isn't gonna have the same weight. "Why'd you stop doing it? Why didn't you write your thesis on it? I bet you really just want to work in big law for the money."

Now simply having a thread isn't even a guarantee of getting a bump. You only have a thread if you prove you do. Does your resume reflect it in a way that is clear and shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that you've put in extensive time to the relevant area? Are you a compelling writer? Did you write a compelling personal statement that ties why law together with your experience in this area?

Doing this can help you out preform your numbers. Doing this can get you a second read if you are borderline. Doing this ain't going to get a 4.0 167 into Harvard with any sort of regularity, etc. If your LSAT is to low the correct answer is stop doing everything and retake. If it's still to low then retake again.

http://blogs.law.stanford.edu/admission ... threads-2/
Last edited by wert3813 on Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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wert3813
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Re: How are these softs

Postby wert3813 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:45 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:
ZVBXRPL wrote:Notwithstanding the TA position, what would a good letter of recommendation consist of?


law schools only care about how smart you are and your work ethic. A good letter of rec would say:

"I have sent X amount of students to top 30 law schools and Bobby is in the top 3 percent of those students."

This alone would make an excellent letter of rec. But it's hard to get.

Also, "compared to Bobby's classmates, he is #2 in the physics department for the class of 2016" AND "I almost always use Bobby's work as the curve for the class, since he obtains the highest grade" AND "Bobby works hard to get those grades and does not just fly by with an A without putting the effort"


http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... ation.aspx

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How are these softs

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:48 pm

true ... but still ... really anyone can form a "passion" for X , Y , Z . Partake in extensive research, volunteer work, etc. with the poor, victims, etc. Study in a diff. country. At least to me this is not very attractive. When I see that someone has a 170+ LSAT, then that's incredibly attractive.

If that 17O+ does not have a sound reason to go to law school, yeah that would be a negative, but I will overlook it. Kind of like a very attractive girl goes on a date with me and she looks like a mess that night and embarrasses me in front of my friends by her weird behavior. Sure, It'd be a negative, but something that can be overlooked because there are few women that look like her. She's a diamond in the rough. Just like the 170+ w/o WE, volunteer werk, reason 2 go to law school.

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guano
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Re: How are these softs

Postby guano » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:50 pm

Excluding Yale and Stanford, most softs work like tie breakers - they won't help if your scores are too low, and you'd already be accepted if they're really high, but if you're in the grey area, it'll boost you above another applicant without such softs.

Y andS are in a different category, where softs matter, but very few people will be realistically considered

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How are these softs

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:53 pm

guano wrote:Excluding Yale and Stanford, most softs work like tie breakers - they won't help if your scores are too low, and you'd already be accepted if they're really high, but if you're in the grey area, it'll boost you above another applicant without such softs.

Y andS are in a different category, where softs matter, but very few people will be realistically considered

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dnptan
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Re: How are these softs

Postby dnptan » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:53 pm

It is my opinion that numbers leads to questions, and softs lead to answers. To tie-in with Dr. Dre's analogy, numbers get you the first date, softs get you the first kiss.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: How are these softs

Postby Dr. Dre » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:57 pm

dnptan wrote:It is my opinion that numbers leads to questions, and softs lead to answers. To tie-in with Dr. Dre's analogy, numbers get you the first date, softs get you the first kiss.


#'s will get you the first date AND first kiss. Softs will just get you a hand job ( on first date)
Last edited by Dr. Dre on Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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