Chances of Getting into Law School

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applepiecrust
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby applepiecrust » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:16 pm


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dnptan
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby dnptan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:22 pm

Hi OP,

First off I fully support your determination - don't let other people tell you what you can or can't do. You're right in being picky about which advice to take. That being said, consider that the way people view your situation will be the way a lot of people will be viewing you in law school. Remember that most posters here are aspiring or current law students, and part of it is seeing how they see your situation. Don't take it personally, just read what you can from it.

Second, your LSAT will definitely weigh in much more than anything else you have provided. I'll try to break down each data point you've provided below:

Disclaimer: All explanations are supported by my experience at TLS, interviews and meetings with current law students and professors. However, the scores I give are all arbitrary.

1) Age. Doesn't matter. It has just as much chance of being an asset as a hindrance, it really depends on the adcom. For instance Northeastern will look at it negatively (guess) and Penn might see it positively (also guess). [Soft - 2/10]

2) Mock Trial competitions. Great experience, but very normal for law school aspirants. Remember you are competing with people who are, on average, very driven and high-achieving. [Soft - 5/10]

3) Campaign Manager. This is a lot better. I'd say it definitely sets you apart and is actually one of the few things that work well with your age to become an advantage. Potential PS topic right there [Soft - 7/10]

4) B.A. The fact that WGU is an online University with no GPA will actually hurt you. By how much, I wouldn't know. It could be a personal bias, but it could actually work very much against you as I will explain more below [Hard - ?/10]

5) Theoretical LSAT of 173+. Good score, definitely puts you in the running for most, if not all, of the T14 [Hard(ish) - 9/10]

----------

Disclaimer: Everything below is my opinion only. Nothing in my research or experience really provides concrete proof.

so I don't think the GPA can be used as an example of my academic abilities. I spent a few months at our local community college pre-WGU and received all A's except for two FW's in two courses, both of which were a college error as they lost my withdrawal form and did not inform me until the grades came out (I tried to drop the classes because of incompetent professors).


This really concerns me. First off: GPA is going to be the prime metric of your academic performance whether you like it or not. I know it sucks to hear, but coming from a double major in the hard sciences (ENG+Bio) it's probably even worse for me. Still, we play by the system's rules.

Spending a few months at a local community college: was this before or after you got your FIRST B.A.? LSAC only calculates your GPA from college courses taken PRIOR TO YOUR FIRST B.A. Everything after that will be a soft - and bad ones too if it's not a Master's or a PhD.

(I tried to drop the classes because of incompetent professors)
This attitude will get you nowhere. If you send this air of superiority in your PS you will definitely be seen as arrogant and immature. In the forums, it's fine. Just be careful to not give this impression in your application. Your age is a number, as you said. But that number can be interpreted in many ways. Use it to your advantage and break the stereotype.

Lastly, I think you should re-evaluate your purpose for going to law school. Perhaps even more important than the JD are the connections you will make getting that JD. Law is a very connection-heavy field. Evaluate if A) you are ready to make those connections and B) you are capable of being connected WITH. The reason age is such a big concern (and life experience) with schools such as NW is the candor built with people who have gone through similar experiences. Also, not being (legally) allowed to drink will make it less easy to come to meetups, which usually occur in bars.

Hopefully this helps.

tldr; listen to advice, don't necessarily take it. Good luck!

sheilalawyer
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby sheilalawyer » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:27 pm

dnptan wrote:Hi OP,

First off I fully support your determination - don't let other people tell you what you can or can't do. You're right in being picky about which advice to take. That being said, consider that the way people view your situation will be the way a lot of people will be viewing you in law school. Remember that most posters here are aspiring or current law students, and part of it is seeing how they see your situation. Don't take it personally, just read what you can from it.

Second, your LSAT will definitely weigh in much more than anything else you have provided. I'll try to break down each data point you've provided below:

Disclaimer: All explanations are supported by my experience at TLS, interviews and meetings with current law students and professors. However, the scores I give are all arbitrary.

1) Age. Doesn't matter. It has just as much chance of being an asset as a hindrance, it really depends on the adcom. For instance Northeastern will look at it negatively (guess) and Penn might see it positively (also guess). [Soft - 2/10]

2) Mock Trial competitions. Great experience, but very normal for law school aspirants. Remember you are competing with people who are, on average, very driven and high-achieving. [Soft - 5/10]

3) Campaign Manager. This is a lot better. I'd say it definitely sets you apart and is actually one of the few things that work well with your age to become an advantage. Potential PS topic right there [Soft - 7/10]

4) B.A. The fact that WGU is an online University with no GPA will actually hurt you. By how much, I wouldn't know. It could be a personal bias, but it could actually work very much against you as I will explain more below [Hard - ?/10]

5) Theoretical LSAT of 173+. Good score, definitely puts you in the running for most, if not all, of the T14 [Hard(ish) - 9/10]

----------

Disclaimer: Everything below is my opinion only. Nothing in my research or experience really provides concrete proof.

so I don't think the GPA can be used as an example of my academic abilities. I spent a few months at our local community college pre-WGU and received all A's except for two FW's in two courses, both of which were a college error as they lost my withdrawal form and did not inform me until the grades came out (I tried to drop the classes because of incompetent professors).


This really concerns me. First off: GPA is going to be the prime metric of your academic performance whether you like it or not. I know it sucks to hear, but coming from a double major in the hard sciences (ENG+Bio) it's probably even worse for me. Still, we play by the system's rules.

Spending a few months at a local community college: was this before or after you got your FIRST B.A.? LSAC only calculates your GPA from college courses taken PRIOR TO YOUR FIRST B.A. Everything after that will be a soft - and bad ones too if it's not a Master's or a PhD.

(I tried to drop the classes because of incompetent professors)
This attitude will get you nowhere. If you send this air of superiority in your PS you will definitely be seen as arrogant and immature. In the forums, it's fine. Just be careful to not give this impression in your application. Your age is a number, as you said. But that number can be interpreted in many ways. Use it to your advantage and break the stereotype.

Lastly, I think you should re-evaluate your purpose for going to law school. Perhaps even more important than the JD are the connections you will make getting that JD. Law is a very connection-heavy field. Evaluate if A) you are ready to make those connections and B) you are capable of being connected WITH. The reason age is such a big concern (and life experience) with schools such as NW is the candor built with people who have gone through similar experiences. Also, not being (legally) allowed to drink will make it less easy to come to meetups, which usually occur in bars.

Hopefully this helps.

tldr; listen to advice, don't necessarily take it. Good luck!


Thank you! I appreciate your answer. As I have said before, I came here to get some advice on how the GPA, etc. would affect my applications and you are one of the few people that have actually helped answer the question as opposed to forming opinions about me based on the info I provided here. A breakdown like this really helps. As for the community college, I did not mean to sound superior, rather that entire college is now facing accredidation issues to do the types of professors I experienced. I won't waster your time going into details, but it was never something I planned on explicitly stating on my application either.

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Ded Precedent
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby Ded Precedent » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:34 pm

This is gunning on steroids.

sheilalawyer
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby sheilalawyer » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:37 pm

I don't mean to big-brother you, but this is the kind of attitude that is going to hold you back. Look, if you want to be a lawyer, that's fine and I wish you the best of luck. However, adults know how to take criticism, children do not. Maybe that guy is an idiot asshole, maybe he's not, but your response is demonstrative of your youth.

If you ask people their opinion, you absolutely cannot get angry with their responses. Doing so does nothing to advance your position. And this is precisely why someone so young should not go into law so early.

You're used to being the smartest person in the room, I get that. Meet like half the people on this forum. The thing is, they have the experiential understanding that there is always a bigger fish and to not act like a petulant child when they aren't treated like a MacArthur Genius.

If you have any specific questions at all, fire away. I, and I'm sure many others, will answer them honestly.

As an added note, if you are planning on running your family business, an MBA would probably be more prudent than a law degree. Or maybe consider going for the MBA/JD, but think this through.[/quote]

I have stated in many of my reponses that everyone is entitles to their opinion and they may think what they will, but I also did not ask anyone on this forum if they thought I should go to law school, or if it was worth it my age, etc. Had I done so, than many of this responses would be absolutely warranted and I would take them in stride. Rather, I asked about the effect my GPA would have on admissions given my current circumstances. Very few people actually answered that part of the question, but to those who did I did not get "angry" regardless of what they said. I don't know you or your opinions, but I don't think asking people to answer a question rather than give me life advice when they do not know anything about me other than a few things posted on this forum is considered being a petulant child.

rad lulz
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby rad lulz » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:40 pm

lol you can't control what people say to you over the internet

look if you want to know what your gpa is send that crap in to the LSAC and come back with a number (or lack thereof)

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francesfarmer
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby francesfarmer » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:43 pm

sheilalawyer wrote:I have stated in many of my reponses that everyone is entitles to their opinion and they may think what they will, but I also did not ask anyone on this forum if they thought I should go to law school, or if it was worth it my age, etc. Had I done so, than many of this responses would be absolutely warranted and I would take them in stride. Rather, I asked about the effect my GPA would have on admissions given my current circumstances. Very few people actually answered that part of the question, but to those who did I did not get "angry" regardless of what they said. I don't know you or your opinions, but I don't think asking people to answer a question rather than give me life advice when they do not know anything about me other than a few things posted on this forum is considered being a petulant child.

Arguing with strangers on the internet who have very understandable reservations about a 17 year old kid going to law school is making you look like a petulant child. Nobody here thinks you're special.

If your GPA sucks, that's gonna look bad. If your GPA is good (even if it is based on like 5 community college classes), that's gonna look good. See if you can get the community college to turn your FWs into Ws. Or, better yet, if the school loses its accreditation, see what LSAC has to say about the validity of those grades.

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cahwc12
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby cahwc12 » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:52 pm

sheilalawyer wrote:I have stated in many of my reponses that everyone is entitles to their opinion and they may think what they will, but I also did not ask anyone on this forum if they thought I should go to law school, or if it was worth it my age, etc. Had I done so, than many of this responses would be absolutely warranted and I would take them in stride. Rather, I asked about the effect my GPA would have on admissions given my current circumstances. Very few people actually answered that part of the question, but to those who did I did not get "angry" regardless of what they said. I don't know you or your opinions, but I don't think asking people to answer a question rather than give me life advice when they do not know anything about me other than a few things posted on this forum is considered being a petulant child.


I read the first part of the post thinking it was you who wrote it and thought "wow, this person is actually very articulate in asking for advice, and not like most of the people who come on here pissing on the people who give them good advice. Then I realized that you are inept at hitting the quote button without mangling the copied text. And you're pissing on people who are giving you good advice.

You sound like a fool and you should feel bad.

Someone posted this article a while back on TLS, but it should probably be stickied in this forum (or more specifically, the WAMC forum, since you can't navigate the forum topics either).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... study.html

This is you, or at least how you come off on this forum--over-entitled, under-educated, and willfully ignorant. Even three years ago, I would have said this kind of behavior is at least somewhat excusable because of the absence of verifiable employment data about law schools, but now there is no excuse at all. If you're stupid enough to believe you should go to law school in your position, you will reap the consequences of a lifetime of crippling non-dischargeable debt and perennial unemployment.

The fact that you even refer to it as "getting into law school" shows how very little you understand about law school admissions. Spend some time here and you'll learn a lot, and you'll also realize how foolish you've been.

Bobnoxious
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby Bobnoxious » Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:52 pm

Too late to do anything with the gpa. A first bachelors degree has already been earned.

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dnptan
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby dnptan » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:13 pm



Great article. Definitely ringing true. As a person who recently went through a humbling experience (searching for a job after graduating) I totally agree with what the article says. Humility goes a long way since it allows you to address your weaknesses. Shame a lot of people can't stand to hear that they're average, or even below average. True fact: 50% of people are below average, believe it or not.

Anyway didn't mean to thread-jack. Just thought that OP and a lot of others should give that article a read. In the end, it's OP's decision whether to apply to law school or not. She will learn to error of her ways on her own (should she fail), or we will learn the error of ours (should she succeed). Either way no need to get personal. Please keep us posted OP, I'm curious to see how your cycle will play out.

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sublime
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby sublime » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:27 pm

..

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Samara
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby Samara » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:50 pm

I just want to know why you would go through all the trouble of graduating that early from high school just to "attend" a TTTT online school like Western Governors.

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guano
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby guano » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:52 pm

sheilalawyer wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Dude go try to have sex w some girls or something bro


I'm a girl, bro.

rad lulz wrote:Dude go try to have sex w some girls or something bro

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Ded Precedent
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby Ded Precedent » Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:55 pm

guano wrote:
sheilalawyer wrote:
rad lulz wrote:Dude go try to have sex w some girls or something bro


I'm a girl, bro.

rad lulz wrote:Dude go try to have sex w some girls or something bro

If she really is 17, you're crossing into a strange area with that post.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:00 pm

Samara wrote:I just want to know why you would go through all the trouble of graduating that early from high school just to "attend" a TTTT online school like Western Governors.


I think "TTTT" is quite generous. Seriously. What. The. F@#$.

Early isn't always better. In this case, given OP's aspirations, it has been quite detrimental. Imagine if she went through high school, became valedictorian, went to an Ivy League undergrad, and then applied to law school and graduated with a good GPA? I'm making a lot of assumptions, but think of the possibilities. Western Governors is TTtttTTTTTTttttTTTTTTTTTTTTtttttttTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTttttteeeeeeteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeteateateateateateaaaaaaaaa

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BerkeleyBear
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby BerkeleyBear » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:42 pm

sheilalawyer wrote:Hi all! Just thought I would get some of the opinions and expertise on my own situation.

I'm aiming to go to Law School in Fall of 2014, but my situation is a little unique, so I'm looking for advice on where I should be applying and expecting possible admission from.

I am currently 17, will be 17 during application process, will turn 18 before officially starting law school. I graduated high school at 15 with over 27 awards in Mock Trial competitions amongst other extracurriculars. Finished Bachelor's degree a few months ago (at 17). Last year, I worked as a campaign manager on a grassroots congressional campaign. I have also been interning at the same malpractice firm for multiple summers since the age of 14. I currently have a job as a Legal Assistant at a large healthcare company. The only issue is that I received my Bachelor's degree from Western Governors University. It is competency based with all classes being pass/fail. There is no official GPA, but the minimum equivalent is a 3.0. I finished 108 units in 5 months and even went back and received a second degree, so I don't think the GPA can be used as an example of my academic abilities. I spent a few months at our local community college pre-WGU and received all A's except for two FW's in two courses, both of which were a college error as they lost my withdrawal form and did not inform me until the grades came out (I tried to drop the classes because of incompetent professors). That college is beginning to have accredidation issues anyway, so hopefully it won't be counted against me. If I score highly on the LSAT (173+), what are my chances of getting into a top law school despite the GPA issue?

Where should I realistically set my Law School goals? My first choice would be the Accelerated JD program at Northwestern or any of the top 5-6 schools. Is there anything else I can do to increase my chances of acceptance?

Thanks!

:shock:

Why in the fuck would you take over 100 units in under half a year? Haha that is so intense and unnececsary. I honestly wouldn't have thought this was humanly possible. What kind of TTTTT school would let a student register in that many units?

Secondly, if you recieved a few A's and a couple F's and those are the only grades that will be used by LSAC, you've screwed yourself. Big time. Hopefully those won't be used against you becasue if you got a couple A's and two F's, that's a 2.0 GPA.

I wish you well OP. When my sister was 17 she was watching Gilmore girls and frettin about prom and shit. Go live a normal life.

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Clearly
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby Clearly » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:41 pm

your flame is bad and you should feel bad.

Keasbey
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby Keasbey » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:53 pm

sheilalawyer wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:LOL @ a 17 year old wanting to do the Accelerated JD. What's the big rush??


It's not that I am rushing. I have always wanted to be a lawyer and working in both the legal world and jobs outside of it have not changed that in the slightest. I know it's for me. I would rather get my schooling out of my way now, when I have the opportunity, rather than later on when I have more responsibilties and obligations. Plus, we have a large family business that I will probably end up coming back to manage, so getting school done as soon as I can opens that door for me, amongst other things.

Also, while I understand where many of you are coming from regarding the "life experience", I don't think that is the case for me. I may not have as many years of life experience as most law students, but I don't think I'm entirely lacking in that department either. I've worked as a campaign manager/strategist on a Congressional Campaign, currently hold a full-time job in a large healthcare company, have both internship and volunteer experience in many areas, and have been traveling since a young age. It's not like I'm fresh out of high school without a clue as to how the real world works.


I love it when people think that this stuff sounds real. No legitimate candidate in their right mind would have a 17 year old campaign manager. Flame.

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Samara
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Re: Chances of Getting into Law School

Postby Samara » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:59 pm

Keasbey wrote:
sheilalawyer wrote:
bernaldiaz wrote:LOL @ a 17 year old wanting to do the Accelerated JD. What's the big rush??


It's not that I am rushing. I have always wanted to be a lawyer and working in both the legal world and jobs outside of it have not changed that in the slightest. I know it's for me. I would rather get my schooling out of my way now, when I have the opportunity, rather than later on when I have more responsibilties and obligations. Plus, we have a large family business that I will probably end up coming back to manage, so getting school done as soon as I can opens that door for me, amongst other things.

Also, while I understand where many of you are coming from regarding the "life experience", I don't think that is the case for me. I may not have as many years of life experience as most law students, but I don't think I'm entirely lacking in that department either. I've worked as a campaign manager/strategist on a Congressional Campaign, currently hold a full-time job in a large healthcare company, have both internship and volunteer experience in many areas, and have been traveling since a young age. It's not like I'm fresh out of high school without a clue as to how the real world works.


I love it when people think that this stuff sounds real. No legitimate candidate in their right mind would have a 17 year old campaign manager. Flame.

OP doesn't say the candidate was a major party candidate. Could be some Constitution Party weirdo who got 1% of vote. I love when people, flame or real, say they worked on a Congressional campaign like it's some huge deal. Those "jobs" (because most of the time they aren't even real jobs) are so easy to get, especially if your parents are connected.




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