Is 4th re-take worth it?

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jdadmiss
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Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby jdadmiss » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:29 pm

So, if my cycle doesn't work out like I want I may consider re-taking the LSAT and re-applying. The problem, I think, is that I am not eligible for my 4th re-take until next February, so I guess that'd put me off for two cycles since Feb. is so late in the game. Do schools look at a 4th re-take the same? For example, would 4th re-take of 175 be look at differently?

20141023
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby 20141023 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:32 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

born4law
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby born4law » Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:14 pm

For what it's worth, I took the LSAT 4 times, and each time my score went up, finally breaking 97 percentile on my fourth attempt. My 4th attempt was the hail-mary that saved my skin. I experienced a HUGE jump and wouldn't have been at contention at all the T14s without this fourth and final score. My whole life changed. Think about this.

For my experience see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=177509

Two issues with your case:
1) You're concerned about how law schools will view the 4th attempt. Don't sweat it. As long as it's your highest score, you'll be fine.
2) You'll need to wait 2 cycles. This is by far the biggest obstacle. If you've found yourself a very nice job you're happy at keeping for another 2 years, then it might not be that big of a deal. Alternatively, if you're looking forward to 2 years of self-exploration, traveling, doing independent study, a master's degree, whatever you've been dreaming about, then again: another 2 years might not kill you. But it's definitely the kicker here... 2 years...

PRgradBYU
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby PRgradBYU » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:26 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
jdadmiss wrote:So, if my cycle doesn't work out like I want I may consider re-taking the LSAT and re-applying. The problem, I think, is that I am not eligible for my 4th re-take until next February, so I guess that'd put me off for two cycles since Feb. is so late in the game. Do schools look at a 4th re-take the same? For example, would 4th re-take of 175 be look at differently?

Basically, if your retake is higher than your previous score, then yes it will be viewed differently (=favorably).

Without knowing your GPA, current LSAT (highest LSAT score), target schools, or anything else, it will be hard for us to give you any sort of worthwhile advice more detailed than this. :|


TITCR. What have your LSAT scores been like?

jdadmiss
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby jdadmiss » Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:40 am

Thanks for the responses, guys. I really feel like I'm in quite a pickle here

born4law wrote: 2 years might not kill you. But it's definitely the kicker here... 2 years...


That's the problem -_- I really want big-law, so I want to go to a T-14, and I know I can get a higher LSAT score. So basically the 1st time I took the LSAT was cold without doing any research and was a complete waste of a try. Then I did some studying got a 160 (again, another wasted attempt, as I had not yet found this site and all of the great LSAT advice). I then put in a lot of time and was PTing in the 168-172 range; I choked on test day and got a 164. Also, my GPA is not very high (slacked off in undergrad), but I'm a URM, so I know if I can get that 168+ I'd be looking at the T-14. So I'm torn about whether I should attend a decent T1 with a scholly and hope I make the top of the class, or take off 2 years and hope I can hit that score on the 4th re-take. I'm not really qualified to do much else, in terms of jobs, so I don't know what I would do for 2 years. Luckily I got fee-waivers, so I applied to a bunch of T-14s, without any luck, though. So yeah, I don't know what to do here :twisted:

tl;dr: -___-

born4law
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby born4law » Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:27 am

jdadmiss wrote:So basically the 1st time I took the LSAT was cold without doing any research and was a complete waste of a try. Then I did some studying got a 160 (again, another wasted attempt, as I had not yet found this site and all of the great LSAT advice). I then put in a lot of time and was PTing in the 168-172 range; I choked on test day and got a 164. Also, my GPA is not very high (slacked off in undergrad), but I'm a URM, so I know if I can get that 168+ I'd be looking at the T-14.

You'd be surprised how similar your story and mine are (minus the URM and low GPA, but those should cancel each other out). Almost down to a tee, my path was like yours. Again, that fourth time was the hail-mary that finally brought the high score for me, but at this point, I need to emphasize a few notable differences between us that should make your decision much easier.

1) My first attempt and my fourth were separated by an over two-year gap. Between my 3rd and 4th exams was just the usual June-October gap, and the last exam fit into my app cycle with ease. You don't have this luxury. Over two years will pass till the next attempt and I doubt you'll be consistently studying till then. That sounds like it'll drive any sane person crazy. So for you, a higher score isn't guaranteed. It's not for anyone, but consider your case carefully.

2) You already have a 164, which isn't a bad score as a URM. It should net you some T20 acceptances. That's still good and would make you feel more comfortable versus taking another two years.

jdadmiss
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby jdadmiss » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:01 pm

born4law wrote:You'd be surprised how similar your story and mine are (minus the URM and low GPA, but those should cancel each other out). Almost down to a tee, my path was like yours. Again, that fourth time was the hail-mary that finally brought the high score for me, but at this point, I need to emphasize a few notable differences between us that should make your decision much easier.

1) My first attempt and my fourth were separated by an over two-year gap. Between my 3rd and 4th exams was just the usual June-October gap, and the last exam fit into my app cycle with ease. You don't have this luxury. Over two years will pass till the next attempt and I doubt you'll be consistently studying till then. That sounds like it'll drive any sane person crazy. So for you, a higher score isn't guaranteed. It's not for anyone, but consider your case carefully.

2) You already have a 164, which isn't a bad score as a URM. It should net you some T20 acceptances. That's still good and would make you feel more comfortable versus taking another two years.


Damn, you are lucky that your two year gap was able to fit into your cycle. That's what's killing me here! I really want the T-14. I wouldn't mind T-20, but even with scholarships I'd still be looking at like 80-100 k in debt for like a 50-60% chance of a job, and like a 20% chance at biglaw.

What I thought about possibly doing was deferring my acceptance this year, then take the LSAT in February, and if I score significantly higher withdraw my acceptance and re-apply for the next cycle. First I'm wondering: are you allowed to take the LSAT if you defer? My second concern would be wtf would I do for the next 1 to possibly 2 years. -_-

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patrickd139
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby patrickd139 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:07 pm

As someone who didn't find this site until too late, and who didn't retake a 4th time even though I bumped my score more than 10 points between my second and third try, I wish every day that I'd taken a year, really studied, retaken, and gone to a better school.

It's worked out fine end the end, but I'd do it differently 10/10 times with the benefit of hindsight.

jdadmiss
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby jdadmiss » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:14 pm

patrickd139 wrote:As someone who didn't find this site until too late, and who didn't retake a 4th time even though I bumped my score more than 10 points between my second and third try, I wish every day that I'd taken a year, really studied, retaken, and gone to a better school.

It's worked out fine end the end, but I'd do it differently 10/10 times with the benefit of hindsight.


Yeah, that's also what's killing me.... I'd hate to look back and wish I would've just waited one more year to re-take & get into a better school. The kicker for me is I'm a K-JD with a stupid degree and pretty much not qualified to do anything that pays decently to fill the time gap.

Your profile says you went to NYU? That's still pretty damn good.

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patrickd139
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby patrickd139 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:20 pm

jdadmiss wrote:
patrickd139 wrote:As someone who didn't find this site until too late, and who didn't retake a 4th time even though I bumped my score more than 10 points between my second and third try, I wish every day that I'd taken a year, really studied, retaken, and gone to a better school.

It's worked out fine end the end, but I'd do it differently 10/10 times with the benefit of hindsight.


Yeah, that's also what's killing me.... I'd hate to look back and wish I would've just waited one more year to re-take & get into a better school. The kicker for me is I'm a K-JD with a stupid degree and pretty much not qualified to do anything that pays decently to fill the time gap.

Your profile says you went to NYU? That's still pretty damn good.

Profile also says "LL.M." Like I said, it worked out fine in the end. Still, if you can do better, do better.

born4law
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby born4law » Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:15 pm

jdadmiss wrote:I'd hate to look back and wish I would've just waited one more year to re-take & get into a better school


I need to be clear on this: there is absolutely no guarantee that your score will improve with any additional time spent. It's certainly possible, but don't make the mistaken assumption of "more time = better score." Not necessarily.

Imagine yourself in the future, under a scenario where you waited, took the exam a 4th time, and got the same or lower score. How would you feel then?

It's a tough call and I sympathize with you.

jdadmiss
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby jdadmiss » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:16 am

born4law wrote:
jdadmiss wrote:I'd hate to look back and wish I would've just waited one more year to re-take & get into a better school


I need to be clear on this: there is absolutely no guarantee that your score will improve with any additional time spent. It's certainly possible, but don't make the mistaken assumption of "more time = better score." Not necessarily.

Imagine yourself in the future, under a scenario where you waited, took the exam a 4th time, and got the same or lower score. How would you feel then?

It's a tough call and I sympathize with you.


Oh yea, I'm totally aware of this. That's why I'm thinking I might defer my top choice acceptance from this cycle and take the LSAT again in February and then make a decision. It kills me knowing I could score a 170 to settle for a 164. Worst case scenario I just waste one more year and make some cash in the interim. I'm kinda leaning towards this.

Do you know if there are any stipulations placed on a deferral? Like can I still take the LSAT? Or, let's say I take the LSAT and get that 168+, could I withdraw my deferred acceptance and then send in a few late apps?

Thanks! And yeah, this situation blows. I wish I would've found TLS a long time ago.

born4law
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Re: Is 4th re-take worth it?

Postby born4law » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:40 am

jdadmiss wrote:It kills me knowing I could score a 170 to settle for a 164.

I know. I was stuck right there in that low-mid 160s range and was PTing way above that. I just needed one more chance. I know how you feel. You've got the ambition. You don't want to settle. You know you can do this. I would recite these mantras on my runs, which I would take often because the stress of continuous LSAT prep would really get me worked up.

jdadmiss wrote:Worst case scenario I just waste one more year and make some cash in the interim. I'm kinda leaning towards this.

Yea, and honestly, you'll have one more year to grow a bit, to mature, to experience life, to think about law school and whether it's worth it. Things aren't the way they used to be. Law school and the legal profession are no longer in the glory days. People that are headed down this route need to be 100% sure of their decision. They need to know why they're going, what program they're most interested in, and what kind of practice area they want. That extra time might do you good down the road ;)

jdadmiss wrote:Do you know if there are any stipulations placed on a deferral? Like can I still take the LSAT? Or, let's say I take the LSAT and get that 168+, could I withdraw my deferred acceptance and then send in a few late apps?

I actually have no idea about this scenario and I'm curious to know what would happen. I'm hoping someone else can chime in here with some info.




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