When will ABA approve the first online school? And where? Forum

[oaken]

Yeah, I love making pamphlets for TTTs in my free time.

Crazy awesome. Extra points for "almost twice the educational value of Stanford."

see I wish it was a little less heavy handed. That line gives it away as a joke. If it was more subtle and you couldn't even tell if it was real or not, now that'd be sweet

[20141023]

.

[dcg2120]

Yeah, I love making pamphlets for TTTs in my free time.

Crazy awesome. Extra points for "almost twice the educational value of Stanford."

see I wish it was a little less heavy handed. That line gives it away as a joke. If it was more subtle and you couldn't even tell if it was real or not, now that'd be sweet

No man, I don't want some idiot finding that thing and mistakenly thinking that Cooley actually is a better place to go than HYS.

Like those plastic orange things that they put on the barrels of cap guns...?

[wannabelawstudent]

Dude no....it will be a long time, 20+ years. Just a few years ago the LSAC thought about making the LSAT computerized. Then they decided not to and released a study about how it would be racially discriminatory. If they cant even get the enterance test changed then I don't see how they'll change an entire school. Maybe some places will change their 3Lol year online, but as another poster said schools are closer to closing than adding more..

[haus]

Dude no....it will be a long time, 20+ years. Just a few years ago the LSAC thought about making the LSAT computerized. Then they decided not to and released a study about how it would be racially discriminatory. If they cant even get the enterance test changed then I don't see how they'll change an entire school. Maybe some places will change their 3Lol year online, but as another poster said schools are closer to closing than adding more..

The first school ABA school that will expand into online offerings, is not going to be a new law school, it will be an existing ABA program looking to find a way to increase their revenue and/or expand their reach.

[arkgawilson]

Who cares? No one except your parents would ever give you a job out of an online law school so it's silly to speculate about it.

This is not true in other fields now. While employment in the legal field is a throw back in many ways it is hard to imagine that they can continue to ignore reality indefinitely.

Firms like prestige. Online degrees are the complete opposite of prestige. hth

Similar conversations are taking place in the field that I am currently in (clinical psychology) so I can speak from that angle. Currently no clinical psychology programs that are 100% online are APA accredited, however, a certain percentage of courses can be taken online in any program--most offer some of the knowledge based courses online while leaving the skills courses for "in person". Some students choose programs that aren't accredited anyways, but accreditation if nothing else serves as a peer-review process for the field, which I am going to assume is the same with the ABA for law schools.

What I would carefully examine within your statement, though, is the idea of prestige. I guess in large part I'd like to know how you define prestige. While there is certainly anecdotal evidence that online degrees are the complete opposite of prestige (if you're referring to learning outcomes) is there actually empirical data to support that assumption, and in particular, specifically to law programs? Just in my own experiences being on a board in APA (the American Psychological Association) that is working to change accreditation standards while considering distance learning and the endemic drawbacks and advantages of such programs, I'd prefer to work off of empirical data saying that online programs produce quality students, do not produce quality students, produce the same quality students, etc.

Tangent: I personally think too many professions are gallantly behind the times in terms of incorporating technology into their respective fields, including the use of distance learning models as valid teaching tools. As such, I wouldn't be surprised to find that no purely online ABA law school will exist for quite some time.

[cinephile]

Go ahead and enroll in an online school if that's what you want. Let us know how that works out for you.

[wannabelawstudent]

Arkgawilson is right. Its not a matter of old people not wanting to adapt to new technologies. There's a lot of factors at play that make a purely online legal education unrealistic at this tome.

[haus]

It appears that there has been movement on thid front. William Mitchell has received approval from the ABA for a hybrid program, which they anticipate starting in 2015.

http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/236314681.html

[Mauve.Dino]

It appears that there has been movement on thid front. William Mitchell has received approval from the ABA for a hybrid program, which they anticipate starting in 2015.

http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/236314681.html

[rodmanhust]

It appears that there has been movement on thid front. William Mitchell has received approval from the ABA for a hybrid program, which they anticipate starting in 2015.

http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/236314681.html

i actually got into this hybrid program, but really worried that hiring partners will always look at it as an online school, thus less credible.
Although the degree would be the same, it's hard to imagine this topic not coming up during job interviews.
Legit concern?

[haus]

It appears that there has been movement on thid front. William Mitchell has received approval from the ABA for a hybrid program, which they anticipate starting in 2015.

http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/236314681.html

i actually got into this hybrid program, but really worried that hiring partners will always look at it as an online school, thus less credible.
Although the degree would be the same, it's hard to imagine this topic not coming up during job interviews.
Legit concern?

Yes, it is a legitimate concern, as many in law are resistant to change.

This being said, I have applied to this program, been accepted and plan to attend. Although I am a non-grad student, who has a family, and a job with an employer I do not attend to leave (although I suspect the nature of my job will change a bit over the years). With a combination of scholarships and support from my employer overall cost will be low and the nature of the hybrid program should provide greater flexibility, hopefully lessening the impact of my return to school upon my family.

All told, I consider this to be a win.

[PDaddy]

i think for the next decade or so the trend is going to be closing currently open schools, not opening new experimental ones

I hope that several will be on the brink of insolvency within short order. However, I do wish more prestigious schools would open...maybe a three-for-one deal, where three bad ones close and a really good one opens.

M.I.T., Brown, Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth, Cal-Tech, Rice, Davidson, Purdue, Miami-Ohio, Oberlin, Georgia Tech, Wellesley, Carnegie Mellon, Rochester, Spelman, Tufts, Brandeis, UC-San Diego, UC Santa Barbara, Rensselaer, Lehigh...

When Cali opened UCI the ABA should have simultaneously forced the closure(s) of schools like Thomas Jefferson, Golden Gate and Cal Western! If we could close the 60 bottom-feeders we have - and open the above-listed law schools - things would be much better.

Dare to dream...

[twenty]

The problem isn't a lack of "prestigious" law schools -- the problem is a lack of legal jobs. It's a zero-sum game. Even if Princeton opened up a law school with 400 seats, that wouldn't mean there are suddenly 400 new biglaw jobs.

[PDaddy]

The problem isn't a lack of "prestigious" law schools -- the problem is a lack of legal jobs. It's a zero-sum game. Even if Princeton opened up a law school with 400 seats, that wouldn't mean there are suddenly 400 new biglaw jobs.

I get that, but you mistakenly presume (without warrant) that the quantity, quality and nature of the law schools has no bearing on the availability of legal jobs and sustainable careers. To the contrary, the number and quality of schools can influence the job market. For one, fewer graduates means less competition. Better-trained graduates means wider breadth of alternative career paths for new graduates - including simply hanging up shingles.

Replacing every three "bad" schools with a single "better" one would kill two birds with one stone: (1) it would effectively relieve marketplace pressure by slowing the flood of new graduates into the marketplace (addressing the job shortage we all agree exists), and (2) it would "un-dilute" the profession and add more prestige, especially if legal education is simultaneously reformed to educate lawyers to hit the ground running as entrepreneurs and corporate businessmen. Schools like Northwestern and Penn are already on that page, and have been for years.

The law profession was once considered to be as noble a calling as was medicine. That's all gone now. Improving the candidate pool and their pedigrees, reforming legal education, and even reforming the courts will go a long ways towards changing that.

Again, the recession forced law firms to learn to function with fewer new lawyers. The way to change that is to reform legal education so that new graduates bring tangible, immediately measurable skills to the table. This will drive law firms to renew their old hiring patterns. In essence, law schools can drive demand by changing the way they train law students.

Some law grads would be brave enough to hang shingles right out of law school if the appropriate supervision was available, a minimum number of cases and clients could be guaranteed, and they could earn guaranteed minimum revenues for a period of 5-10 years. That should be an option for those who desire it.

More entrepreneurial training, fewer schools, more prestigious schools, and fewer but better trained graduates...a holistic approach! That's the solution.

[rodmanhust]

It appears that there has been movement on thid front. William Mitchell has received approval from the ABA for a hybrid program, which they anticipate starting in 2015.

http://www.startribune.com/local/stpaul/236314681.html

i actually got into this hybrid program, but really worried that hiring partners will always look at it as an online school, thus less credible.
Although the degree would be the same, it's hard to imagine this topic not coming up during job interviews.
Legit concern?

Yes, it is a legitimate concern, as many in law are resistant to change.

This being said, I have applied to this program, been accepted and plan to attend. Although I am a non-grad student, who has a family, and a job with an employer I do not attend to leave (although I suspect the nature of my job will change a bit over the years). With a combination of scholarships and support from my employer overall cost will be low and the nature of the hybrid program should provide greater flexibility, hopefully lessening the impact of my return to school upon my family.

All told, I consider this to be a win.

but it's a win only if you stay with your current employer right?
what if you wanna work for someone else?

[haus]

but it's a win only if you stay with your current employer right?
what if you wanna work for someone else?

No.

I am quite confident that I will have multiple options beyond my current employer, but then again, I am indeed a special snowflake.

[Caesar Salad]

i think for the next decade or so the trend is going to be closing currently open schools, not opening new experimental ones

I hope that several will be on the brink of insolvency within short order. However, I do wish more prestigious schools would open...maybe a three-for-one deal, where three bad ones close and a really good one opens.

M.I.T., Brown, Johns Hopkins, Dartmouth, Cal-Tech, Rice, Davidson, Purdue, Miami-Ohio, Oberlin, Georgia Tech, Wellesley, Carnegie Mellon, Rochester, Spelman, Tufts, Brandeis, UC-San Diego, UC Santa Barbara, Rensselaer, Lehigh...

When Cali opened UCI the ABA should have simultaneously forced the closure(s) of schools like Thomas Jefferson, Golden Gate and Cal Western! If we could close the 60 bottom-feeders we have - and open the above-listed law schools - things would be much better.

Dare to dream...

QFE. Go lehigh.

[PDaddy]

QFE. Go lehigh.

Why Lehigh has no law school is beyond me.

[Nonconsecutive]

Yeah, I love making pamphlets for TTTs in my free time.

Wait, did you really make that? I thought it was real. Why you trollin so much lately?

yeah. I just want to help Cooley share their strengths with others!!

EDIT: And although I did make that pamphlet, it is pretty much just a restatement of the logic behind the methodology of Cooley's rankings.

Best thing I've seen today.

[Caesar Salad]

[*]

QFE. Go lehigh.

Why Lehigh has no law school is beyond me.

Stupid engineers

[crazycanuck]

Call me crazy but I think online is a great option if it's dirt cheap, which it should be since the costs are super low. There is nothing wrong with having the best students from the best schools compete for the best jobs. It's not a bad thing to have lots of people educated in the laws of your country. An oversupply of lawyers isn't the problem. It's the massive debt that's the problem and online will solve it.

[twenty]

All of the inevitable "but unaccredited California TTTT!" aside, if you needed a really cheap online program, you're not going to get much better than Oak Brook College of Law at <5k a year. Bar passage rate usually ranges at around 33%, which is far and away the best bar passage rate for a California TTTT.

[TheSpanishMain]

An oversupply of lawyers isn't the problem. It's the massive debt that's the problem and online will solve it.

This would be fine if the people getting cheap online degrees just wanted them as side jobs, not a primary source of income. If they just want to do wills and stuff for their friends and family, sure, why not?

You could almost just have two separate degrees: a JD and some kind of JD-Lite.