Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:40 am

NYstate wrote:Didn't read the thread but my firm has one associate who is blind. Pretty sure he got accommodated on the LSAT, though I haven't asked him. I'm fairly sure there must be others as well.


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20141023
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:43 am

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stillwater
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby stillwater » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:48 am

LOL at a partner giving you "extra-time"

jreeve12
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:38 pm

I was AMAZED at how quickly I received a response from Mike Spivey, but I now have my answer. As promised, I have copied it below. Basically, Dean Spivey would not commit one way or the other to the proposition that an accommodated LSAT would be treated differently than a non-accommodated score. HOWEVER, one can deduce from his statements that, whatever slight disadvantage it MIGHT confer would not even be worth a year's wait to see how the Justice Department's thumping of the LSAC plays out. Anyways, without further adieu, here it is!

"jreeve, thanks for trusting in me with your question. You have thought this through very thoroughly and with a great deal of sophistication.

To answer your first question: Yes, UVA is bound by this. The can not say "we will take his 175 but ignore someone's 162 who took under accommodation" So your score will not go to the ABA, and thus will not be in the US News Rankings.

That said, they will see your score and if you score above their median it certainly should still help you. For that reason, I am not sure iof you would want to delay (only you can decide that, of course)."

20141023
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:12 pm

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North
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby North » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:33 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:jreeve12 = Alt of Feigngrav3

Wow, looks like this guy actually exists. I was hoping this was just a troll account. Good thing UVA won't want his 3.5.

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oaken
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby oaken » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:36 pm

kappycaft1 i feel like you're too smart of a guy to keep wasting time on this dude

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stillwater
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby stillwater » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:37 pm

stillwater wrote:LOL at a partner SCOTUS justice giving you "extra-time"

20141023
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:40 pm

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:42 pm

You can't be a splitter if you're accommodated. Whatever ED advantage you would have at UVA or elsewhere by being a sure thing for their LSAT median wouldn't exist, and LSAC will tell schools to treat your score as something flexible at best:

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soontobelawschooler
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby soontobelawschooler » Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:53 pm

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jreeve12
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:41 pm

Just by the way, while I have been shocked by the level of vitriol directed against me on this forum for no other apparent reason than you don't like my attitude, I am confounded that you guys are actually now ignoring EXPERT ADVICE from a former law school dean based on ZIP besides your own arrogant presumptions about accommodated scores (which may not even be flagged by the time I apply almost a year from now anyway!!). It never ceases to amaze me how petty some of you guys can be. What do you care if I am (wrongly) convinced that I'm going to be at the top at whatever school I go to?? That doesn't give you guys an excuse to be unkind or rude to someone.

Just by the way, here is what three admissions deans at Boalt Hall, UVA, and Michigan said about accommodated test scores. Take it with a grain of salt, of course, but when a former admissions Dean is giving me a MUCH more optimistic appraisal than a bunch of dudes who apparently have no idea what they're talking about, I'm now inclined to believe them unless significant evidence to the contrary is presented. Got that evidence? Great! PLEASE share it. That's why I'm here, not to engage in a referendum on my character or perceived hubris.

"I always encourage disabled applicants to do their best to get the necessary accomodations for their disability. I have never encountered a case in which getting an accommodation hurt a person's chances. We are interested in judging applicants on the basis of their ability, not on the basis of their disability. The accommodated score provides a more accurate description of their ability" - Edward Tom, Boalt Hall (Berkeley)

"We believe that if you think you might qualify for an accommodation you should request it from LSAC. We don't evaluate an accommodated score any differently from one achieved under regular conditions"- Monica Ingram, Texas

"If you think you might qualify for an accommodation, I strongly urge you to apply for it. I treat accommodated scores just like regular scores"- Sarah Zearfoss, Michigan

"I always urge people to seek an accommodation on the LSAT if they think they have a condition warranting one"- Susan Palmer, UVA

All of these interview excerpts may be found on page 166 of Richard Montauk's "How to Get into the Top Law Schools." Montauk's happens to agree with these Admissions Deans, btw.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby BerkeleyBear » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:01 am

jreeve12 wrote:Just by the way, while I have been shocked by the level of vitriol directed against me on this forum for no other apparent reason than you don't like my attitude, I am confounded that you guys are actually now ignoring EXPERT ADVICE from a former law school dean based on ZIP besides your own arrogant presumptions about accommodated scores (which may not even be flagged by the time I apply almost a year from now anyway!!). It never ceases to amaze me how petty some of you guys can be. What do you care if I am (wrongly) convinced that I'm going to be at the top at whatever school I go to?? That doesn't give you guys an excuse to be unkind or rude to someone.

Just by the way, here is what three admissions deans at Boalt Hall, UVA, and Michigan said about accommodated test scores. Take it with a grain of salt, of course, but when a former admissions Dean is giving me a MUCH more optimistic appraisal than a bunch of dudes who apparently have no idea what they're talking about, I'm now inclined to believe them unless significant evidence to the contrary is presented. Got that evidence? Great! PLEASE share it. That's why I'm here, not to engage in a referendum on my character or perceived hubris.

"I always encourage disabled applicants to do their best to get the necessary accomodations for their disability. I have never encountered a case in which getting an accommodation hurt a person's chances. We are interested in judging applicants on the basis of their ability, not on the basis of their disability. The accommodated score provides a more accurate description of their ability" - Edward Tom, Boalt Hall (Berkeley)

"We believe that if you think you might qualify for an accommodation you should request it from LSAC. We don't evaluate an accommodated score any differently from one achieved under regular conditions"- Monica Ingram, Texas

"If you think you might qualify for an accommodation, I strongly urge you to apply for it. I treat accommodated scores just like regular scores"- Sarah Zearfoss, Michigan

"I always urge people to seek an accommodation on the LSAT if they think they have a condition warranting one"- Susan Palmer, UVA

All of these interview excerpts may be found on page 166 of Richard Montauk's "How to Get into the Top Law Schools." Montauk's happens to agree with these Admissions Deans, btw.


OP, if you want to enter the legal field you might want to get thicker skin. Especially if you want to go to the "top". It sounds like you know what you want to do. So do it. No one on the forum is going to hold you back. By all means, use the extra time and do the best you can.

The majority of posters on here are pretty reasonable and obviously intelligent. It's common sense. At the end of the day, schools are going to be ranked by numbers. A GPA and LSAT isn't much to go on anyways. Not being able to report the LSAT if it's in the 170+ range is obviously not going to be beneficial for the school or the applicant. Duh. IF schools can't report your LSAT, your GPA had better be above median. That's for sure.


This is life. Life isn't always fair. You'll be okay.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:05 am

jreeve12 wrote:Just by the way, while I have been shocked by the level of vitriol directed against me on this forum for no other apparent reason than you don't like my attitude, I am confounded that you guys are actually now ignoring EXPERT ADVICE from a former law school dean based on ZIP besides your own arrogant presumptions about accommodated scores (which may not even be flagged by the time I apply almost a year from now anyway!!). It never ceases to amaze me how petty some of you guys can be. What do you care if I am (wrongly) convinced that I'm going to be at the top at whatever school I go to?? That doesn't give you guys an excuse to be unkind or rude to someone.

Just by the way, here is what three admissions deans at Boalt Hall, UVA, and Michigan said about accommodated test scores. Take it with a grain of salt, of course, but when a former admissions Dean is giving me a MUCH more optimistic appraisal than a bunch of dudes who apparently have no idea what they're talking about, I'm now inclined to believe them unless significant evidence to the contrary is presented. Got that evidence? Great! PLEASE share it. That's why I'm here, not to engage in a referendum on my character or perceived hubris.

"I always encourage disabled applicants to do their best to get the necessary accomodations for their disability. I have never encountered a case in which getting an accommodation hurt a person's chances. We are interested in judging applicants on the basis of their ability, not on the basis of their disability. The accommodated score provides a more accurate description of their ability" - Edward Tom, Boalt Hall (Berkeley)

"We believe that if you think you might qualify for an accommodation you should request it from LSAC. We don't evaluate an accommodated score any differently from one achieved under regular conditions"- Monica Ingram, Texas

"If you think you might qualify for an accommodation, I strongly urge you to apply for it. I treat accommodated scores just like regular scores"- Sarah Zearfoss, Michigan

"I always urge people to seek an accommodation on the LSAT if they think they have a condition warranting one"- Susan Palmer, UVA

All of these interview excerpts may be found on page 166 of Richard Montauk's "How to Get into the Top Law Schools." Montauk's happens to agree with these Admissions Deans, btw.


It's really impressive how determined you are to convince yourself of what you want to hear. If you get accommodated, your number(s) will hurt the schools you want to go to because they will have to report your low GPA and can't use your LSAT. Maybe they can consider all LSATs the same, but the rankings can't.

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North
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby North » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:07 am

Doesn't matter, dude. They also say they average multiple LSAT scores. Here's the deal: your accommodated LSAT won't count for their medians. Your GPA will. Your GPA is below median at all of the T14 so, barring some charity, you're going to have a bad time. Especially if you let that personality bleed through your applications.

ETA: Scooped.

jreeve12
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:09 am

That all sounds well and good. I'll even admit that all of those deans might be lying through their teeth, that it could be 2 years before the Obama Justice Department defeats LSAC, and that Mike Spivey didn't know what he was talking about (and you do).

Fine. Where's your evidence outside of "common sense?" Anything. Just give something.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:15 am

jreeve12 wrote:That all sounds well and good. I'll even admit that all of those deans might be lying through their teeth, that it could be 2 years before the Obama Justice Department defeats LSAC, and that Mike Spivey didn't know what he was talking about (and you do).

Fine. Where's your evidence outside of "common sense?" Anything. Just give something.


http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/articles/2012/03/12/methodology-law-school-rankings

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby BerkeleyBear » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:21 am

jreeve12 wrote:That all sounds well and good. I'll even admit that all of those deans might be lying through their teeth, that it could be 2 years before the Obama Justice Department defeats LSAC, and that Mike Spivey didn't know what he was talking about (and you do).

Fine. Where's your evidence outside of "common sense?" Anything. Just give something.


The people have spoken OP. Use your brain and think from an unbiased perspective. We can agree to disagree but you're not going to change my mind unless you come back next year and post your cycle. Get into some T14 schools and you'll be in business.

20141023
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby 20141023 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:22 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby A → B ⊨ ¬B → ¬A » Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:35 am

I just noticed that you have already been granted an accommodation for June. Even if you retake the LSAT later without an accommodation, the retake score cannot be reported either. Enjoy TTT.

Accommodated test scores: If a matriculant took the LSAT under nonstandard conditions you must exclude this matriculant from your calculation of 75th, 50th and 25th percentile calculations. This exclusion applies whether the matriculant took the LSAT one time or multiple times, so long as at least one test was taken under nonstandard conditions. You can tell whether an LSAT exam was administered to an applicant under nonstandard conditions because the applicants’ CAS report will not include a score band, percentile rank, or an index calculation associated with the test score.


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jreeve12
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:04 am

kappycaft1, I could ask Mike Spivey to verify that comment for posterity if you doubt it's authenticity.
Would you like me to do that?

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stillwater
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby stillwater » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:05 am

jreeve12 wrote:kappycaft1, I could ask Mike Spivey to verify that comment for posterity if you doubt it's authenticity.
Would you like me to do that?


I don't think anyone cares.

20141023
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby 20141023 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:18 am

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:44 am

jreeve12 wrote:That all sounds well and good. I'll even admit that all of those deans might be lying through their teeth, that it could be 2 years before the Obama Justice Department defeats LSAC, and that Mike Spivey didn't know what he was talking about (and you do).

Fine. Where's your evidence outside of "common sense?" Anything. Just give something.

Um, but Mike Spivey said that schools couldn't report your LSAT to the ABA. So I don't get how Spivey's comment supports your position.

To answer your first question: Yes, UVA is bound by this. The can not say "we will take his 175 but ignore someone's 162 who took under accommodation" So your score will not go to the ABA, and thus will not be in the US News Rankings.

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suralin
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby suralin » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:21 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
jreeve12 wrote:That all sounds well and good. I'll even admit that all of those deans might be lying through their teeth, that it could be 2 years before the Obama Justice Department defeats LSAC, and that Mike Spivey didn't know what he was talking about (and you do).

Fine. Where's your evidence outside of "common sense?" Anything. Just give something.

Um, but Mike Spivey said that schools couldn't report your LSAT to the ABA. So I don't get how Spivey's comment supports your position.

To answer your first question: Yes, UVA is bound by this. The can not say "we will take his 175 but ignore someone's 162 who took under accommodation" So your score will not go to the ABA, and thus will not be in the US News Rankings.


OP is a prime example of confirmation bias at work.




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