Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

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20141023
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:44 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jreeve12
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:47 am

Just in case you guys don't know what I'm talking about

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6qrND2lcpY

Typos happen... to the best of us. Glad you were able to understand what I meant.

20141023
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby 20141023 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:12 am

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Last edited by 20141023 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Crowing
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby Crowing » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:14 am

Shaving mustaches is such an aspie bet/dare. We need something more risqué.

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oaken
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby oaken » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:21 am

jreeve12 wrote:I never said that I would ultimately be a SCOTUS clerk, but I DO have a good basis to say that I would be in at least the top 2-5% at whatever program I am accepted into. Will that translate into a clerkship with Jeffrey Sutton? Maybe, maybe not, but I like my odds!

Let's look at it this way. I have an overall IQ of 153 and a verbal reasoning sub-score of 160 (more highly correlated with success in law school than the LSAT). There are only 30,000 people in the entire United States. Assuming an average class size of 600, then if EVERY person with an IQ that high went to Harvard Law since 1962, then Harvard Law could BARELY fill its class with people with those scores. Of course, far from 100% of people with those IQ scores, I'd be SHOCKED if Harvard Law got even 10% of people with those scores. What do you think it's going to be at UVA? 1%? MAYBE? I have actually had a 4.0 for the last 3 semesters of college. I told you that we lived in the age of the genius slacker, and in addition to some poor grades from my undergrad, I made some poor choices from my freshman year that are dragging down my grades. I rushed and became too involved in my fraternity, became too caught up in college life, and paid the consequences. I am REALLY good at leveraging my intellectual talents towards compensating for a very mild cognitive deficit, and I will continue to kick ass at whatever law school I attend. You think I'm just going to slack off after making up my mind to pursue a clerkship wit a feeder-judge? Please. As I've said, my disability actually gives me an advantage: I have to work hard from day 1, and, when I've made the decision to succeed, I don't let up until it's over. I will import that same intensity wherever I go in life. I am no longer some impressionable young freshman chump.

By the way, am I the only one here who recognizes the irony of some entitled "top tier" student labeling truly accomplished lawyers like Jeffrey Sutton (who went to Ohio State and clerked formLewis Powell) and Hugo Black (need I say more?) as "Third Tier Toilet" and then proceeds to label ME as arrogant? Look in the mirror, "pals."


literally lol'd

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suralin
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby suralin » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:45 am

oaken wrote:
jreeve12 wrote:I never said that I would ultimately be a SCOTUS clerk, but I DO have a good basis to say that I would be in at least the top 2-5% at whatever program I am accepted into. Will that translate into a clerkship with Jeffrey Sutton? Maybe, maybe not, but I like my odds!

Let's look at it this way. I have an overall IQ of 153 and a verbal reasoning sub-score of 160 (more highly correlated with success in law school than the LSAT). There are only 30,000 people in the entire United States. Assuming an average class size of 600, then if EVERY person with an IQ that high went to Harvard Law since 1962, then Harvard Law could BARELY fill its class with people with those scores. Of course, far from 100% of people with those IQ scores, I'd be SHOCKED if Harvard Law got even 10% of people with those scores. What do you think it's going to be at UVA? 1%? MAYBE? I have actually had a 4.0 for the last 3 semesters of college. I told you that we lived in the age of the genius slacker, and in addition to some poor grades from my undergrad, I made some poor choices from my freshman year that are dragging down my grades. I rushed and became too involved in my fraternity, became too caught up in college life, and paid the consequences. I am REALLY good at leveraging my intellectual talents towards compensating for a very mild cognitive deficit, and I will continue to kick ass at whatever law school I attend. You think I'm just going to slack off after making up my mind to pursue a clerkship wit a feeder-judge? Please. As I've said, my disability actually gives me an advantage: I have to work hard from day 1, and, when I've made the decision to succeed, I don't let up until it's over. I will import that same intensity wherever I go in life. I am no longer some impressionable young freshman chump.

By the way, am I the only one here who recognizes the irony of some entitled "top tier" student labeling truly accomplished lawyers like Jeffrey Sutton (who went to Ohio State and clerked formLewis Powell) and Hugo Black (need I say more?) as "Third Tier Toilet" and then proceeds to label ME as arrogant? Look in the mirror, "pals."


literally lol'd


+1

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BerkeleyBear
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby BerkeleyBear » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:48 am

jreeve12 wrote:I am excited to be taking the LSAT on June 10, and have just yesterday been granted time-and-half accommodations on this test. However, I was horrified to discover this excerpt from the American Bar Association's 2012 Annual Admissions and Enrollment Questionnaire, a guide intended (among other things) to instruct adcoms in their reporting of percentile data to US News and World Report:

"In calculating the 25th, 50th and 75th percentile LSAT scores and UGPAs for Question 1.e., use all first year matriculants’ highest LSAT scores ( excluding
scores earned by matriculants who took the LSAT under non-standard test conditions
) and all matriculants’ cumulative UGPAs as reflected on their
Candidate Assembly Service (CAS)"

If this guide is binding and rigorously enforced, even if I ended up matching my 175 PT avereage this June on the real test, t-14 schools would essentially be deprived of any crude, rankings-based motivation to admit me, as my 3.5 GPA doesn't even cross the 25th percentile threshold at UVA (my target school). My questions to you are two-fold.

1) Is this questionnaire a BINDING set of instructions from the ABA?
2) If so, what are the chances that this would be a rule that a school like UVA, Chicago, or Harvard would be prone to "forget" or "misinterpret while padding their 50th/75th percentiles with my LSAT score anyway? After all, accommodated or not, 175+ scores are hard to come by these days.

Any other general comments about my situation not directly related to these two questions are welcome

In any event, it hardly seems fair to put a candidate at a SEVERE disadvantage due to the impact of a processing disability. The LSAT doesn't even claim to be a test of speed of information processing, simply one of "acquired verbal reasoning" and critical reading ability


OP is going to get denied at UVA and and be crushed.

jreeve12
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:52 am

"I like how this thread has devolved into an IQ stroking contest so now I get to swing my e-dick around too. Since my school made me take the WISC IV as a kid and scored a 160 IQ (which I think is the WISC IV cap) and I got a 99th percentile LSAT without time accommodations clearly I am going to slaughter the OP in LS with my natural born intellectual awesomeness."

No, because I had a 160-161 verbal reasoning subscore in verbal reasoning. Sounds like we'd be an even match. Congratulations, btw!

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:57 am

"OP is going to get denied at UVA and and be crushed."

Nope. I am SO confident in my abilities that, even I have to go to a school like Ohio State or Georgia that you consider "Third Tier Toilet," that I will come out on top eventually. Just like Hugo Black, Robert Jackson, Jeffrey Sutton, Diane Sykes, Benjamin Cardozo, Pierce Butler, and other 'TTT.' A part of me even hopes that I get denied just so I can show arrogant elitist a-holes like yourself up.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:07 am

This thread had 100% made my night.

Btw, OP fwiw if you think the following are all useless: historical data regarding admissions and law school class rank, speed and accuracy as equally important factors in assessing ability, and decent advice that doesn't necessarily blow smoke up your behind - then really you may as well just go buy a parrot and stop asking smart people for their opinion.

You're being unnecessarily frustrating to people trying to just give you the most honest advice possible.

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BerkeleyBear
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby BerkeleyBear » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:13 am

jreeve12 wrote:"OP is going to get denied at UVA and and be crushed."

Nope. I am SO confident in my abilities that, even I have to go to a school like Ohio State or Georgia that you consider "Third Tier Toilet," that I will come out on top eventually. Just like Hugo Black, Robert Jackson, Jeffrey Sutton, Diane Sykes, Benjamin Cardozo, Pierce Butler, and other 'TTT.' A part of me even hopes that I get denied just so I can show arrogant elitist a-holes like yourself up.


Implying mostly everyone in law school doesn't go in believing in their abilities and that they'll "come out on the top.." I'm basing my prediction on the way you present yourself to others. Your PS's are going to be golden, no doubt. Also, are you implying you're not arrogant? And you honestly sound pretty elitist. OP, get your shit together and stop coming off as a douche bag. I use to work at the DRD (Disability Resource Department) at my school and honestly looked up to some of the students. I'm assuming you're one of those rare cases of kids who don't even need the extra time for tests or resources but use it anyways to get the advantage. You act as though you can score on standardized tests at the very top of levels. Then put your money where your mouth is and don't use the extra time. It's that simple.

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Icculus
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby Icculus » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:33 am

This thread delivers.

Though if OP is so fucking smart why can't he just use the quote feature like everyone else?

jreeve12
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:38 am

Gosh, my own will is failing me here.... whatever


BerkelyBear, for someone who worked in a Disability Resources Agency, you don't seem to understand the very reason why we have the ADA and give accommodations to persons with processing disabilities in the first place: to level the playing field so that applicants can be judged on the basis of their ability, not their disability. What I would make on the LSAT without extra time would NOT be reflective of my abilities, which even LSAC has tacitly acknowledged. I have demonstrated an ability to not only survive, but thrive in a demanding Honors thesis program, winning the thesis writing competition in history MY JUNIOR YEAR. I also was given accommodated testing after my freshmen year, which led to a consistent 4.0 average. I have had three different clinical psychologists tell me that my abilities will NOT be reflected without extended time. Who are you to say differently?

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:42 am

jreeve12 wrote:Gosh, my own will is failing me here.... whatever


BerkelyBear, for someone who worked in a Disability Resources Agency, you don't seem to understand the very reason why we have the ADA and give accommodations to persons with processing disabilities in the first place: to level the playing field so that applicants can be judged on the basis of their ability, not their disability. What I would make on the LSAT without extra time would NOT be reflective of my abilities, which even LSAC has tacitly acknowledged. I have demonstrated an ability to not only survive, but thrive in a demanding Honors thesis program, winning the thesis writing competition in history MY JUNIOR YEAR. I also was given accommodated testing after my freshmen year, which led to a consistent 4.0 average. I have had three different clinical psychologists tell me that my abilities will NOT be reflected without extended time. Who are you to say differently?


You are screaming at brick walls here. The absolute truth of the matter is that despite all of your sophist ramblings to attempt to persuade to the contrary, schools count accommodated time much much differently than not.

Again, either take the good advice here regarding LSAC policy and your numbers (chances) or stop yelling at folks on the internet and go about your genius business.

Go do whatever you want, apply to schools and if you're right come back and brag about it. Whatever, no one cares.

/thread

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:59 am

"schools count accommodated time much much differently than not."

That's my whole point. I haven't seen a single SHRED of evidence of that on here as I originally asked for, and the only information regarding my "chances" (which I didn't even ask for) came from biased self-reported data compiled by LSN. If that information can accurately gauge my chances, then Alfred Langdon should have beaten Franklin Roosevelt for re-election in 1936 as the self-reported magazine straw polls showed. Roosevelt went on to win one of the biggest landslides in US history that sent the Republican party into exile until the New Deal coalition inevitably collapsed in the 1970s. Again, trust LSN if you want (or don't). I don't care. Personally, I take those numbers with a particularly large grain of salt. Their predictive powers are EXTREMELY limited, especially at the high end.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:07 am

jreeve12 wrote:"schools count accommodated time much much differently than not."

That's my whole point. I haven't seen a single SHRED of evidence of that on here as I originally asked for, and the only information regarding my "chances" (which I didn't even ask for) came from biased self-reported data compiled by LSN. If that information can accurately gauge my chances, then Alfred Langdon should have beaten Franklin Roosevelt for re-election in 1936 as the self-reported magazine straw polls showed. Roosevelt went on to win one of the biggest landslides in US history that sent the Republican party into exile until the New Deal coalition inevitably collapsed in the 1970s. Again, trust LSN if you want (or don't). I don't care. Personally, I take those numbers with a particularly large grain of salt. Their predictive powers are EXTREMELY limited, especially at the high end.


Then call the admissions offices of a few T14s and ask - not rocket surgery smart guy.

Better yet, ask Mike Spivey (former adcomm) or Dean Perez (current Dean of Admissions at Texas Tech Law). Both of them have threads on TLS, just use the search function.

Or whatever, do what you feel is right. You're not impressing anyone, certainly not on this site riddled with incredibly intelligent and accomplished people, with your IQ or knowledge of history.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:11 am

"Then call the admissions office of a few T14s and ask - not rocket surgery smart guy."

I have. I e-mailed UVA this morning just to leave not stone unturned, as it were, but it would be a remarkable display of candor for them to say anything other than "we treat accommodated scores equally." If they said anything differently, I could sue them for a WHOLE lot of money. I was hoping that someone here might have some inside information... guess not.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:16 am

Both Mr. Spivey and Dean Perez have been extremely open about many things you wouldn't expect them to be on this site. Particularly the former because he is no longer an adcomm.

Search function, find, ask.

jreeve12
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:18 am

Thank you! I sincerely appreciate it.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:20 am

Whatever they reply with (if they do), I will post here so that others in my situation will have an answer to this issue if they should stumble across this thread.

jreeve12
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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:41 am

Unless, of course, he prefers to keep his response confidential when I ask him.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby bbsg » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:54 am

jreeve12 wrote:Whatever they reply with (if they do), I will post here so that others in my situation will have an answer to this issue if they should stumble across this thread.


Despite the insufferable tone and nature of your posts in this thread before this, I'll give you credit for being a good person on this count. More people should be sure to post answers to their own questions in threads when they figure them out.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby jreeve12 » Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:57 am

Nothing enrages me more than someone telling me I can't do something (especially when I didn't even ask for their opinion). Is that a character flaw? Don't know. But I feel my tone was warranted (and was DEFINITELY matched by everyone else).

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:02 am

You're just trying to find answers that will affect your immediate future in very significant ways. It's cool. One of the downsides of intelligence is how it makes us all snarky insufferable insomniac assholes who need to chill out.

Hope you find the answers man, and thanks in advance for coming back to share the information.

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Re: Do accommodated LSAT scores count towards law school ranks?

Postby NYstate » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:54 am

Didn't read the thread but my firm has one associate who is blind. Pretty sure he got accommodated on the LSAT, though I haven't asked him. I'm fairly sure there must be others as well.




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