In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

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megagnarley
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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby megagnarley » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:23 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
megagnarley wrote:Why two years?

Retake in December, break 170 and apply next cycle.

A Jan 170+ is better than an early 167 and if you can't break 170 after studying for 11 months on a fourth take then you're never going to anyway.


Well, that's a question for post-December 2013 LSAT. I have major issues with stress. In October's test, I had to guess on ~10 questions and presumably missed them all. If the same thing happens in December 2013 it wouldn't be true if I walked away saying "I can't do better".

Your point is noted though.


What do you mean by major issues with stress? An anxiety disorder? If so, you seriously might want to consider some kind of treatment and anti-anxiety medication. I hate to promote anything for the pharmaceutical industry, but I assure you that preparing for and taking non-YHS law school exams will be far more stressful than the LSAT.

If you're going to retake the LSAT in December, you need to address this stress/anxiety issue first.


Food for thought, but my increase in score is also explained by more and better prep and enhanced reading comprehension skills.


I think the underlying issue is that in school you're not going to have 5 cracks at an exam. You will have one, and it will be stressful, and if you fuck it up that will suck.

Back on topic: talk to people from Cornell. If you can survive Ithaca cold and want NY, it seems like a good option if your adverse to waiting another year.

If not, and you are confident you can improve in Dec apply next cycle. If you're not confident, take the best offer you get and don't look back.

edit: spellz

WhatOurBodiesAreFor
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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:55 pm

megagnarley wrote:I think the underlying issue is that in school you're not going to have 5 cracks at an exam. You will have one, and it will be stressful, and if you fuck it up that will suck.

Back on topic: talk to people from Cornell. If you can survive Ithaca cold and want NY, it seems like a good option if your adverse to waiting another year.

If not, and you are confident you can improve in Dec apply next cycle. If you're not confident, take the best offer you get and don't look back.

edit: spellz


Understood. I just exaggerated a bit when I said I have major issues with stress, so I wanted to clarify that.

And yeah, it is that simple really. I'm just hoping to continue to hear from more people with similar dilemmas and people who can speak to the lower T-14 and T-6 distinction. I've already heard from some people who have helped me a lot.

LRGhost
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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby LRGhost » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:07 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:And yeah, it is that simple really. I'm just hoping to continue to hear from more people with similar dilemmas and people who can speak to the lower T-14 and T-6 distinction. I've already heard from some people who have helped me a lot.


I'm no expert but the difference is 60%+ getting Big Law and ~35% getting it from Cornell. If you have PI desires, NYU is going to be better.

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Crowing
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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby Crowing » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:13 pm

LRGhost wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:And yeah, it is that simple really. I'm just hoping to continue to hear from more people with similar dilemmas and people who can speak to the lower T-14 and T-6 distinction. I've already heard from some people who have helped me a lot.


I'm no expert but the difference is 60%+ getting Big Law and ~35% getting it from Cornell. If you have PI desires, NYU is going to be better.


Image

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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby LRGhost » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:30 pm

Crowing wrote:
LRGhost wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:And yeah, it is that simple really. I'm just hoping to continue to hear from more people with similar dilemmas and people who can speak to the lower T-14 and T-6 distinction. I've already heard from some people who have helped me a lot.


I'm no expert but the difference is 60%+ getting Big Law and ~35% getting it from Cornell. If you have PI desires, NYU is going to be better.


Image


Just going by LST. Obviously anyone from Yale could get it if they wanted so using that is a bit irrelevant.

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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:56 pm

LRGhost wrote:
Just going by LST. Obviously anyone from Yale could get it if they wanted so using that is a bit irrelevant.


Well, it's not irrelevant but it's certainly worth keeping in mind those who work in biglaw is a self-selecting group. You can see this most clearly when looking at Yale's rank here but it'd also be useful to keep it in mind when looking at Cornell's.

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Crowing
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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby Crowing » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:07 pm

LRGhost wrote:
Crowing wrote:
LRGhost wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:And yeah, it is that simple really. I'm just hoping to continue to hear from more people with similar dilemmas and people who can speak to the lower T-14 and T-6 distinction. I've already heard from some people who have helped me a lot.


I'm no expert but the difference is 60%+ getting Big Law and ~35% getting it from Cornell. If you have PI desires, NYU is going to be better.


Image


Just going by LST. Obviously anyone from Yale could get it if they wanted so using that is a bit irrelevant.


dunno what you mean - lst has the same data except only the 2011 data as far as large firms are concerned. hys is obv different because there is a lot of self selection going on there. common belief is that nyu has a lot of self selection into pi but i dont buy that making nyu significantly better than cornell except perhaps at v5/10 outcomes.

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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby LRGhost » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:14 pm

Crowing wrote:dunno what you mean - lst has the same data except only the 2011 data as far as large firms are concerned. hys is obv different because there is a lot of self selection going on there. common belief is that nyu has a lot of self selection into pi but i dont buy that making nyu significantly better than cornell except perhaps at v5/10 outcomes.


Could have sworn some of the numbers on LST was different?

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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:17 pm

Crowing wrote: ....but i dont buy that making nyu significantly better than cornell except perhaps at v5/10 outcomes.


This is getting directly to my concern. If I'm taking on more risk by going to a lower T-14, that's fine. I'd rather take one of my acceptances and go in August. What I have a problem with is substantially lowering my ceiling by going to a lower T-14. I'm OK with forking over a lot of cash and OK with assuming a little more risk, but not OK with killing my prospects at the outset.

Can anyone out there speak to this?

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Lincoln
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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby Lincoln » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:19 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
Crowing wrote: ....but i dont buy that making nyu significantly better than cornell except perhaps at v5/10 outcomes.


This is getting directly to my concern. If I'm taking on more risk by going to a lower T-14, that's fine. I'd rather take one of my acceptances and go in August. What I have a problem with is substantially lowering my ceiling by going to a lower T-14. I'm OK with forking over a lot of cash and OK with assuming a little more risk, but not OK with killing my prospects at the outset.

Can anyone out there speak to this?


Is your concern that by going to Cornell you won't have a shot at V5 firms? If so, it's unfounded. Wachtell is the only firm that comes to mind that doesn't do Cornell OCI.

LRGhost
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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby LRGhost » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:21 pm

Lincoln wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
Crowing wrote: ....but i dont buy that making nyu significantly better than cornell except perhaps at v5/10 outcomes.


This is getting directly to my concern. If I'm taking on more risk by going to a lower T-14, that's fine. I'd rather take one of my acceptances and go in August. What I have a problem with is substantially lowering my ceiling by going to a lower T-14. I'm OK with forking over a lot of cash and OK with assuming a little more risk, but not OK with killing my prospects at the outset.

Can anyone out there speak to this?


Is your concern that by going to Cornell you won't have a shot at V5 firms? If so, it's unfounded. Wachtell is the only firm that comes to mind that doesn't do Cornell OCI.


His chances will be impacted regardless of who does OCI, but his ceiling is really no different until you start talking about being a star at any school.

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Lincoln
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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby Lincoln » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:30 pm

LRGhost wrote:
Lincoln wrote:
WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
Crowing wrote: ....but i dont buy that making nyu significantly better than cornell except perhaps at v5/10 outcomes.


This is getting directly to my concern. If I'm taking on more risk by going to a lower T-14, that's fine. I'd rather take one of my acceptances and go in August. What I have a problem with is substantially lowering my ceiling by going to a lower T-14. I'm OK with forking over a lot of cash and OK with assuming a little more risk, but not OK with killing my prospects at the outset.

Can anyone out there speak to this?


Is your concern that by going to Cornell you won't have a shot at V5 firms? If so, it's unfounded. Wachtell is the only firm that comes to mind that doesn't do Cornell OCI.


His chances will be impacted regardless of who does OCI, but his ceiling is really no different until you start talking about being a star at any school.


Right, I was more saying that attending Cornell doesn't amount to the bolded.

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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby WhatOurBodiesAreFor » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:31 pm

LRGhost wrote:His chances will be impacted regardless of who does OCI, but his ceiling is really no different until you start talking about being a star at any school.


What exactly do you mean by this?


Lincoln wrote:Is your concern that by going to Cornell you won't have a shot at V5 firms? If so, it's unfounded. Wachtell is the only firm that comes to mind that doesn't do Cornell OCI.


Lincoln, I got your PM and it is absolute quality. In fact, it really helped me a lot. I can tell you are speaking truths when you say in NYC coming from Cornell isn't that different from NYU or Columbia.

But I also want to keep all other options open. Because of this I made that comment above. If you can only get "x-quality" clerkships and government jobs coming from T-6 then I maybe should retake. However, if I'm only lowering my ceiling ever so slightly by attending a lower T-14 this year, I should just go in August.

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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby LRGhost » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:32 pm

100% agreed. It doesn't seem like OP thinks the difference in opportunities is worth it. I wouldn't wait a year either.

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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby LRGhost » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:37 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
LRGhost wrote:His chances will be impacted regardless of who does OCI, but his ceiling is really no different until you start talking about being a star at any school.


What exactly do you mean by this?


Your 'ceiling' realistically speaking is working at a V10 for a few years (three or four) and trying to find something after that pays you enough money, gives you a decent enough QOL, and puts you somewhere you'd like to be in your 30s and on. If you're a star at a school and can get a prestigious clerkship or stake out a claim in PI, then your ceiling is necessarily different because your career trajectory is different.

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Lincoln
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Re: In at a few T-14s, is T-6 worth sitting out for?

Postby Lincoln » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:42 pm

WhatOurBodiesAreFor wrote:
But I also want to keep all other options open. Because of this I made that comment above. If you can only get "x-quality" clerkships and government jobs coming from T-6 then I maybe should retake. However, if I'm only lowering my ceiling ever so slightly by attending a lower T-14 this year, I should just go in August.


I know several people with clerkships in the most competitive districts and circuits (SDNY, 2d Cir., D.C. Cir., etc.), but it's definitely true that T6 schools (plus UVA) are better at navigating the insanity that is the clerkship application process. If picking schools based on clerkship numbers, however, keep in mind that the number of people getting clerkships straight out of school are small and decreasing, so even a 100% difference between schools still only amounts to a few dozen people.

I can't speak to BigFed with any great authority as I was BigLaw or bust, but as far as I understand those jobs are so scarce they are incredibly hard to get from any school.




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