Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

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scifiguy
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Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby scifiguy » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:38 pm

If a person takes the LSAT 2...maybe 3 times, does each retake look bad/worse for admissions?

Do they just take the highest?

Also, if you get a really bad score like a 135 and then later do well, do you need to explain at all? What would it look like to admissions if you get 135, then 177? ...What do they do with both?

And what if it's like 135/148/177?

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:44 pm

As long as you're improving, it's usually not an issue. I believe ~1/3 of test takers take it at least twice.

Something like 152 -> 164 -> 156 is going to look terrible. 158 -> 169 -> 176 is just fine.

*EDIT: One awful score followed by a huge improvement probably isn't a big deal. Even if you don't have a real excuse, I'm sure you can make up a decent one. Awful -> Bad -> Amazing is a little trickier, but it isn't like you jump 30 points just because you got lucky. HYSCCN may not like it, but it shouldn't be a huge deal outside of that.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:58 pm

I know a dude who rocked a 139 on the first of his three attempts. He now attends NYU.

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:31 pm

Yeah, I probably should have left the "N" off of that. It's a bit easier to get in to.

nmr321268
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby nmr321268 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:37 pm

I've got 164-cancel-165-169 (first 3 in 2009, 169 in 2011). Not sure how it'll end up looking.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:42 pm

Relevant to my interests.

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gaud
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby gaud » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:43 pm

Schools didn't seem to care about mine. Not even when it came to scholly $$$

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scifiguy
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby scifiguy » Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:13 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:I know a dude who rocked a 139 on the first of his three attempts. He now attends NYU.


Wow. Any idea what his full stats were?

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:52 am

scifiguy wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:I know a dude who rocked a 139 on the first of his three attempts. He now attends NYU.


Wow. Any idea what his full stats were?

He ended up with a 171. 139 was an attempted cancel that the admins screwed up, but he also scored in the 160s.

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poichi
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby poichi » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:36 pm

Random personal anecdote: attorney I work with told me that she went to school with a girl who did something similar to the guy Tiago knows, but unfortunately it was in the age of reporting the average score to LSAC/USNWR. Scored something like a 139 and a 175. LSAC threatened to investigate as they suspected cheating, but they eventually accepted her explanation that she just didn't study the first time and she ended up at one of the unranked Minnesota schools.

I suspect that random stories like this are one of the reasons that schools can now just report the highest score, so multiple scores are much less of a problem.

bbsg
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby bbsg » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:47 pm

My cycle has thus far progressed as one would have expected if my top score were my only score. It has not gone as one would expect if schools avg'ed scores.

But I mean, yeah:

One solid score > Solid retake score > One Poor Score > Multiple Poor Scores, I imagine.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:06 pm

someone who has taken 4 times or more...plz explain.

I've taken 3 times (one cancel) and am thinking about a 4th time. My highest score is 169. I feel confident that I can at least score a 169 again and probably higher. By the time I apply I will have distanced myself from the 169 by 3 years. Stanford is the dream, NU ED is the goal. 3.93 GPA.

Is this a waste of time? Would a, say 171, be helpful or redundant to the 169? Obviously there is a risk I have a shitty day and end up with a sub 169, to which schools may view the 169 as an anomaly.

bbsg
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby bbsg » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:11 pm

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:someone who has taken 4 times or more...plz explain.

I've taken 3 times (one cancel) and am thinking about a 4th time. My highest score is 169. I feel confident that I can at least score a 169 again and probably higher. By the time I apply I will have distanced myself from the 169 by 3 years. Stanford is the dream, NU ED is the goal. 3.93 GPA.

Is this a waste of time? Would a, say 171, be helpful or redundant to the 169? Obviously there is a risk I have a shitty day and end up with a sub 169, to which schools may view the 169 as an anomaly.


If you score below a 169, schools will almost certainly just take the 169 into consideration.

If you score above a 170, schools will almost certainly just take the 170 into consideration. Stanford and Yale are a bit more of a black box, but even then retaking the 169 is 100% the right thing to do. With a 3.93 GPA, 4 points on your LSAT score can make you a strong candidate literally everywhere. With a 169, you're a reach for tons of schools. Your "GPA zone" lands you quite comfortably in HYS territory, so go get that LSAT to match it!

Edit - In other words -- retaking carries a risk of approximately 0 and the prospect of great gains. Just financially speaking, you're talking big money potential at CCN even if Stanford decides to turn their nose up at your retake history (which I find unlikely to happen, frankly, but I'm no expert on Stanford admissions).

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suralin
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby suralin » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:31 pm

bbsg wrote:
FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:someone who has taken 4 times or more...plz explain.

I've taken 3 times (one cancel) and am thinking about a 4th time. My highest score is 169. I feel confident that I can at least score a 169 again and probably higher. By the time I apply I will have distanced myself from the 169 by 3 years. Stanford is the dream, NU ED is the goal. 3.93 GPA.

Is this a waste of time? Would a, say 171, be helpful or redundant to the 169? Obviously there is a risk I have a shitty day and end up with a sub 169, to which schools may view the 169 as an anomaly.


If you score below a 169, schools will almost certainly just take the 169 into consideration.

If you score above a 170, schools will almost certainly just take the 170 into consideration. Stanford and Yale are a bit more of a black box, but even then retaking the 169 is 100% the right thing to do. With a 3.93 GPA, 4 points on your LSAT score can make you a strong candidate literally everywhere. With a 169, you're a reach for tons of schools. Your "GPA zone" lands you quite comfortably in HYS territory, so go get that LSAT to match it!

Edit - In other words -- retaking carries a risk of approximately 0 and the prospect of great gains. Just financially speaking, you're talking big money potential at CCN even if Stanford decides to turn their nose up at your retake history (which I find unlikely to happen, frankly, but I'm no expert on Stanford admissions).


+1 Retake!

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scifiguy
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby scifiguy » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:24 am

So really ONLYYYY Stanford Yale....Harvard...the most elite of the elite will look down on retakes?

Pretty much everyone is OK with them. Any idea of a cut-off for which schools kind of thumb their nose and where it becomes acceptable?

bbsg
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby bbsg » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:32 am

scifiguy wrote:So really ONLYYYY Stanford Yale....Harvard...the most elite of the elite will look down on retakes?

Pretty much everyone is OK with them. Any idea of a cut-off for which schools kind of thumb their nose and where it becomes acceptable?


Think of a retake as a "negative soft." The same way that a positive soft almost never makes a difference (a 3.7/170 with decent softs is rarely going to be admitted over a 3.8/170 with weak softs), a negative soft is unlikely to ACTUALLY affect you.

All schools, including Yale/Stanford, will prefer a retake with a high score to a single take with a lower score. In that sense there's no cut-off. Someone who takes a 169, a 170, and a 168 (in that order) will be less well off than someone who ONLY took a 170, but generally better off than someone who ONLY took a 169 (even though the last retake was lower). That seems to be the consensus among everyone who pays close attention to admissions, anyway.

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sinfiery
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby sinfiery » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:34 am

HYS thumb their nose. Rest consider it acceptable. Except NYU, they specifically say they average. 139 +165+171= 158 average. He was probably an Olympic gold medalist PHD astrophysicst to get into NYU with that average.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:36 am

sinfiery wrote:HYS thumb their nose. Rest consider it acceptable. Except NYU, they specifically say they average. 139 +165+171= 158 average. He was probably an Olympic gold medalist PHD astrophysicst to get into NYU with that average.

Trust me he wasn't. NYU doesn't average.

bbsg
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Re: Do Multiple LSAT takes Look Bad?

Postby bbsg » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:43 am

I got in within 10 days of applying at NYU. My 'average' LSAT put me below median. My retake put me above 75th. I'm pretty confident they don't actually average.




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