GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

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zbenson
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GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby zbenson » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:28 pm

I am in a position where I have a huge gap between my degree GPA which is all classes I have taken the last 18 months (4.03) and my cumulative across (2.19) from some troubles I had in my life when attending from ages 18-21. Is this trend and straight A's since I restarted something that will allow me maybe get into some schools that I would obviously be predicted to be denied at?

Any comments or thoughts are welcome. Thanks!

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:35 pm

zbenson wrote:I am in a position where I have a huge gap between my degree GPA which is all classes I have taken the last 18 months (4.03) and my cumulative across (2.19) from some troubles I had in my life when attending from ages 18-21. Is this trend and straight A's since I restarted something that will allow me maybe get into some schools that I would obviously be predicted to be denied at?

Any comments or thoughts are welcome. Thanks!


If you are able to make it past the auto-ding bots, you should do much better than predictions, assuming you are able to write a good addendum about your earlier academic performance and how that shaped who you are as a person today. Also, kicking ass on the LSAT would be a big plus and would help justify your recent grades. I am in a slightly similar position, although my poor grades only lasted my first semester and were due to a medical condition and me not responding to it maturely, so I definitely HOPE that they will look in depth. Also, since your LSAC report has degree GPA and cumulative GPA on it, it's likely that huge difference will catch readers' eye and they will look to your addendum to an explanation.

That being said, schools often report the high/low for GPA and LSAT, but I'm not sure if schools would like to have a super low GPA as their minimum or not...

zbenson
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby zbenson » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:45 pm

ManOfTheMinute wrote:
zbenson wrote:I am in a position where I have a huge gap between my degree GPA which is all classes I have taken the last 18 months (4.03) and my cumulative across (2.19) from some troubles I had in my life when attending from ages 18-21. Is this trend and straight A's since I restarted something that will allow me maybe get into some schools that I would obviously be predicted to be denied at?

Any comments or thoughts are welcome. Thanks!


If you are able to make it past the auto-ding bots, you should do much better than predictions, assuming you are able to write a good addendum about your earlier academic performance and how that shaped who you are as a person today. Also, kicking ass on the LSAT would be a big plus and would help justify your recent grades. I am in a slightly similar position, although my poor grades only lasted my first semester and were due to a medical condition and me not responding to it maturely, so I definitely HOPE that they will look in depth. Also, since your LSAC report has degree GPA and cumulative GPA on it, it's likely that huge difference will catch readers' eye and they will look to your addendum to an explanation.

That being said, schools often report the high/low for GPA and LSAT, but I'm not sure if schools would like to have a super low GPA as their minimum or not...


Thank you for the reply. I feel as if addressed what happened in terms of an addendum and it is part of my background I briefly touch on in my essays. I think I have stated a clear case as to why it happened and why I am achieving straight A's since going back to school. I know I will get in somewhere but I applied at 20 schools from the best to the unranked and am very curious as to what schools will take a full look at the application and give me a chance in what is turning out to be a wild cycle this year.

Ti Malice
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:49 pm

Unfortunately, a cumulative GPA that low is going to be almost impossible to overcome, as far as gaining admission to a law school that will be worth the price you're required to pay.

zbenson
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby zbenson » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:55 pm

Ti Malice wrote:Unfortunately, a cumulative GPA that low is going to be almost impossible to overcome, as far as gaining admission to a law school that will be worth the price you're required to pay.


Challenge Accepted :)

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:58 pm

Ti Malice wrote:Unfortunately, a cumulative GPA that low is going to be almost impossible to overcome, as far as gaining admission to a law school that will be worth the price you're required to pay.


What do you consider worth the price? T14?

USNWR doesn't ask about average or lowest, so a 2.0 is the same as a a one point below the 25th percentile... But I don't know, I could see Berkeley doing something crazy if OP pulls 175+

Ti Malice
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:18 pm

ManOfTheMinute wrote:What do you consider worth the price? T14?


My comment is not restricted to attending at sticker or to a particular tier of schools. I'm saying that the OP is unlikely to be admitted to any school that will be worth attending at the price he/she will be required to pay.

USNWR doesn't ask about average or lowest, so a 2.0 is the same as a a one point below the 25th percentile...


This has become received wisdom on TLS for some reason, but it's just terribly wrong. One look at LSN or myLSN would be enough to disabuse you of this idea.

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slawww
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby slawww » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:32 pm

http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/publi ... chives.asp

Find the law schools you're interested in, then click "Description" and you can see all of the applications they received and what #'s they accepted/denied (chart on the bottom).

All of the schools outside of the T-14 I applied to provided the info. Pretty interesting.

eric922
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby eric922 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:37 pm

ManOfTheMinute wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:Unfortunately, a cumulative GPA that low is going to be almost impossible to overcome, as far as gaining admission to a law school that will be worth the price you're required to pay.


What do you consider worth the price? T14?

USNWR doesn't ask about average or lowest, so a 2.0 is the same as a a one point below the 25th percentile... But I don't know, I could see Berkeley doing something crazy if OP pulls 175+

Isn't Berkeley known for being GPA obsessed?

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ManOfTheMinute
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby ManOfTheMinute » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:44 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
USNWR doesn't ask about average or lowest, so a 2.0 is the same as a a one point below the 25th percentile...


This has become received wisdom on TLS for some reason, but it's just terribly wrong. One look at LSN or myLSN would be enough to disabuse you of this idea.


(a) USNWR - It definitely does not have an impact. If you don't agree, please explain.

(b) LSN - Its true that there are very few super lower GPA people who got into T14 schools on LSN. However, there are some. Is there any as low as 2.0? I'm not going to look, but I'm willing to stipulate that there is not. The fact that they are willing to accept people with GPA's well below their 25th means that they are willing to overlook people's youthful indiscretions (or what not). OP's indescretion might be larger than there's, but if it can be spun to be positive and a maturing opportunity, I think T14 is reachable. The people on LSN might not have written their addendum's well, or otherwise failed to convince the adcoms. We have to keep in mind, that frequently those people who have a SUPER low GPA are not as responsible as people who are further away from the 25th. If OP demonstrates that they learned for the experience and that they are indubitably capable of operating intellectually at the law school's level, the adcom has no reason to hate on a 2.0


eric922 wrote:
ManOfTheMinute wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:Unfortunately, a cumulative GPA that low is going to be almost impossible to overcome, as far as gaining admission to a law school that will be worth the price you're required to pay.


What do you consider worth the price? T14?

USNWR doesn't ask about average or lowest, so a 2.0 is the same as a a one point below the 25th percentile... But I don't know, I could see Berkeley doing something crazy if OP pulls 175+

Isn't Berkeley known for being GPA obsessed?


Yeah, but you never know what that hippie school will do.

zbenson
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby zbenson » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:04 am

I took some random stabs at the t14 but I am a realist I firmly acknowledge it will take an act of God to not get auto-rejected yet alone have a chance at admission. I have applied to a bunch of schools from #7 through the unranked. I am actually more curious than anything about this cycle. I have been a full-time employee since I went back to school as well so I know that doesn't hurt as I am getting the straight A's while working 40+ hours. I had 3.5 years off of school and have received All A's and 1 A+ in 9 classes, 8 upper level business courses, and one biology class since returning. I did fairly well on the lsat, and in all honesty probably should have retaken it. I am not terribly worried though, if things don't seem to work out this cycle I am confident in trying to raise my score on a retake.

Overall, I just wanted to put this question out there because I had not run in to a lot of people with a 1.8+ difference in the cumulative across and program GPA's lilsted on the LSDAS.

I will keep you posted as to how it goes. I will say this though, I do have an interview with a Top 30 school scheduled already and that is the first correspondence of any kind I have received from the 20 schools I applied to.

Ti Malice
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Re: GPA Question - Degree vs Cumulative Across

Postby Ti Malice » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:44 pm

ManOfTheMinute wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
USNWR doesn't ask about average or lowest, so a 2.0 is the same as a a one point below the 25th percentile...


This has become received wisdom on TLS for some reason, but it's just terribly wrong. One look at LSN or myLSN would be enough to disabuse you of this idea.


(a) USNWR - It definitely does not have an impact. If you don't agree, please explain.

(b) LSN - Its true that there are very few super lower GPA people who got into T14 schools on LSN. However, there are some. Is there any as low as 2.0? I'm not going to look, but I'm willing to stipulate that there is not. The fact that they are willing to accept people with GPA's well below their 25th means that they are willing to overlook people's youthful indiscretions (or what not). OP's indescretion might be larger than there's, but if it can be spun to be positive and a maturing opportunity, I think T14 is reachable. The people on LSN might not have written their addendum's well, or otherwise failed to convince the adcoms. We have to keep in mind, that frequently those people who have a SUPER low GPA are not as responsible as people who are further away from the 25th. If OP demonstrates that they learned for the experience and that they are indubitably capable of operating intellectually at the law school's level, the adcom has no reason to hate on a 2.0


(a) See the bolded portion of the quoted post. I'm not questioning whether or not USNWR rankings have an impact on admissions decisions. I'm saying that your specific claim is absolutely incorrect.

(b) This is really dubious reasoning, but it's not really necessary to engage it. The fact is that the sample size of splitter applicants to various schools is more than large enough to show that law schools do not regard all GPAs under the 25th percentile as functionally equivalent. The higher the GPA, the better the chances of admission, all else being equal.




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