Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:04 pm

How big a deal is this, and how good does your LSAT have to be to make up for it?

KingsCup
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby KingsCup » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:05 pm

Usually they say that if you are below the 25th for GPA, you have to be above the 75th LSAT percentile to have a fighters chance. But still, in a case like that, you never know. That's the cycle I'm living right now

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Nova
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby Nova » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:06 pm

Depends on the school. In general, If youre below the median LSAT, you very likely wont get in.

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TripTrip
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby TripTrip » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:13 pm

Nova wrote:In general, If youre below the median LSAT, you very likely wont get in.

If you're under the 25th GPA and under the LSAT median, you mean?

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Nova
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby Nova » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:17 pm

TripTrip wrote:
Nova wrote:In general, If youre below the median LSAT, you very likely wont get in.

If you're under the 25th GPA and under the LSAT median, you mean?

Yeah :P

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slawww
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby slawww » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:03 pm

This is based off of my current cycle, so take it with a grain of salt:

I am below the 25th GPA percentile of every school I've applied to. So far, schools that I applied to in which my LSAT is at or above median have admitted me. Schools with a median LSAT higher than mine have all rejected me/waitlisted me.

So I think saying you have to be at the 75th may be a little much, but I'd say you definitely have to at least be at median to have a shot.

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togepi
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby togepi » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:02 am

I think that's just about done with.

If you're below their 25th GPA, being above the median should give you a decent chance. Perhaps with this cycle, even being at median may be worth sending an app as they hold onto their current ones.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby NoodleyOne » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:53 am

I'm below every school's 25th GPA to which I applied, but my LSAT is killer, so my cycle has been pretty good so far. If you're GPA is shit, rock the LSAT.

WalkingPlato
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby WalkingPlato » Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:50 pm

what about if your GPA is above 75th but LSAT inbetween 25th and median?

OR

GPA at 75th but LSAT at or one below 25th?

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby NoodleyOne » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:56 pm

WalkingPlato wrote:what about if your GPA is above 75th but LSAT inbetween 25th and median?

OR

GPA at 75th but LSAT at or one below 25th?

I think traditional splitters have it easier than reverse splitters, as there are more high GPAs than high LSATs (which is more true now than ever). If I am correct, reverse splitters still tend to have unpredictable cycles, and certain schools are a bit more favorable to reverse splitters than others (Boalt comes to mind).

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:06 pm

Sub-25th LSAT is a killer, especially if you are more than a couple points below it. There is so little standardization of GPA that it is almost an abstract concept, especially if you don't go to a major national university. The LSAT is a much better way of comparing students, in general.

I'm at 3.58, which is just on the cusp of my top three schools (UM, Columbia, and NYU), so I have 5 months to go HAM for my LSAT.

fallingup
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby fallingup » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:12 pm

RhymesLikeDimes wrote:Sub-25th LSAT is a killer, especially if you are more than a couple points below it. There is so little standardization of GPA that it is almost an abstract concept, especially if you don't go to a major national university. The LSAT is a much better way of comparing students, in general.

I'm at 3.58, which is just on the cusp of my top three schools (UM, Columbia, and NYU), so I have 5 months to go HAM for my LSAT.


Keep up with my cycle. I have a 3.573 and I applied to all 3 of those schools. I got a 170 so I will probably be dinged, but I applied to all the lower T14s as well and I have a better shot at those. Study really hard and aim for 175. (I mean, aim for 180 obviously, but I say 175 because that's right above the CLS and NYU 75ths).

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scruffy556
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby scruffy556 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:13 pm

I'm another case of being below every school except my safety's 25% gpa, and likewise with others if my LSAT was median or better I got in, less than median I was out.

There doesn't seem to be much mystery around what it takes to get into schools.

LRGhost
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby LRGhost » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:39 pm

I'll find out, I guess :)

potted plant
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby potted plant » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:37 pm

I looked at hourumd's law school probability calculator (uses LSN profiles to calculate probabilities) and played around with the numbers a bit for Columbia, NYU and Michigan.

With a 3.58 GPA it lists these probabilities of acceptance:

Columbia
174 - 85%
173 - 70%
172 - 36%

NYU
172 - 80%
171 - 67%
170 - 40%

Michigan
172 - 60%
171 - 69%
170 - 75%
169 - 70%
168 - 50%
167 - 23%

Pretty clear patterns for all three schools. At Columbia you need at least a 173. At NYU you need at least a 171 and at Michigan you have the best chance with a 169-171. Chances decrease when you go above 171 as Michigan seems to wait-list a bunch of high scoring applicants.

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RhymesLikeDimes
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby RhymesLikeDimes » Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:55 pm

Well now, I appreciate you running the numbers. I feel like 175+ is a realistic score for me. I hit 172 on a PT last week, and I still have 5 months to study. Just trying not to be pessimistic, though. I see these occasional profiles with like 177/3.84 get waitlisted/rejected, and that is a tad depressing.

potted plant
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby potted plant » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:30 am

RhymesLikeDimes wrote:Well now, I appreciate you running the numbers. I feel like 175+ is a realistic score for me. I hit 172 on a PT last week, and I still have 5 months to study. Just trying not to be pessimistic, though. I see these occasional profiles with like 177/3.84 get waitlisted/rejected, and that is a tad depressing.

A lot of those outliers can be explained. Some people have reasons to perform below their numbers, like a criminal past, history of mental illness, a PS that indicates they have a rough grasp of English, negative recommendations from their profs, or glaring mistakes on their apps. If you don't have a reason to think you might perform worse than your numbers suggest, then just focus on getting that LSAT and send in the best apps you can. There will always be people who get rejected or wait-listed for no clear reason. Not much you can do about that except apply to multiple schools and hope the dean who reads your app isn't in a terrible mood on the day.

If anecdotal evidence is comforting, I applied with a 3.59 and a 175+ last cycle and got into all three of those schools with money at NYU and Mich.

LRGhost
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby LRGhost » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:48 am

potted plant wrote:If anecdotal evidence is comforting, I applied with a 3.59 and a 175+ last cycle and got into all three of those schools with money at NYU and Mich.


Much worse GPA but still have an LSAT above NYU's 75th. Hope that my PS, DS, and Why X can help them look past my GPA :/

rad lulz
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:49 am

lawschoolnumbers.com

onionz
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Re: Being below a school's 25th GPA percentile...

Postby onionz » Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:51 am

rad lulz wrote:lawschoolnumbers.com




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