Why Lie About It?

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ncc5
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Why Lie About It?

Postby ncc5 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:34 am

I've been snooping around the FAQ sections of websites and most law schools say that they consider all LSAT scores closely, with NYU saying that "we consider the average primarily". If we know this to not to be the case, considering what numbers tell us, then what is the benefit of them saying they do?

Also, I realized while typing this up that my desire to know the answer shows how attached I have gotten to this whole process. Lordy

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:56 pm

Deans are obviously a little embarrassed about the fact that law school admissions could be handled by a trained monkey. Maintaining the facade of holistic admissions helps keep application numbers up and provides just enough cognitive dissonance for the admissions staff to think it's really making a difference.

ncc5
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby ncc5 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:05 pm

I think you're on to something with the admissions numbers. It certainly promotes the idea that the applications are holistic.

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sinfiery
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby sinfiery » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:11 pm

It's really easy to make the statement, "we consider the average primarily" into something that isn't a lie.

dan k
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby dan k » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:54 pm

If they're ever called on it they can simply say, "well technically..."

I mean come on, they're "lawyering" the admissions process with statements like that

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JayJones78
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby JayJones78 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:19 pm

I think you're right overll. I am wondering though if the process is different for URM?

For example: I just got accepted to W&L with a 151/3.41
Why would they accept me if this was simply a numbers game?

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Nova
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby Nova » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:21 pm

Because you affect the medians the same way a 162/3.5 URM would.

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JayJones78
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby JayJones78 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:23 pm

Nova wrote:Because you affect the medians the same way a 162/3.5 URM would.


Yes. I just learned that a few days ago but only generally. Can you expend on it?

dan k
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby dan k » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:32 pm

JayJones78 wrote:I think you're right overll. I am wondering though if the process is different for URM?

For example: I just got accepted to W&L with a 151/3.41
Why would they accept me if this was simply a numbers game?


URM can make a difference for sure. and yea, your numbers are low for W&L. strong softs? Also its not unheard of for schools to hand out acceptances to sub-median applicants with the expectation that they'll happily pay sticker.

I thought I was in a similar boat with being accepted to UMinn but got a decent chunk of money. all in all it seems this cycle hasn't been "typical" (if any cycle can be called that) in the low T20 and up because of the decrease in applicants and test takers.

Either way congrats on your acceptance.

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JayJones78
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby JayJones78 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:38 pm

dan k wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:I think you're right overll. I am wondering though if the process is different for URM?

For example: I just got accepted to W&L with a 151/3.41
Why would they accept me if this was simply a numbers game?


URM can make a difference for sure. and yea, your numbers are low for W&L. strong softs? Also its not unheard of for schools to hand out acceptances to sub-median applicants with the expectation that they'll happily pay sticker.

I thought I was in a similar boat with being accepted to UMinn but got a decent chunk of money. all in all it seems this cycle hasn't been "typical" (if any cycle can be called that) in the low T20 and up because of the decrease in applicants and test takers.

Either way congrats on your acceptance.


Thank you. I still have so many apps pending. But I do really hope to that in some miracle my softs combined with lower applicants, URM boost and it being not a "typical" cycle that I may get some acceptances in the T14 (knowing off the bat that the likelihood of that happening is slim to none).

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TripTrip
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby TripTrip » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:19 pm

JayJones78 wrote:
Nova wrote:Because you affect the medians the same way a 162/3.5 URM would.


Yes. I just learned that a few days ago but only generally. Can you expend on it?

USNWR ranking is based on medians, not averages. The median is the middle number of a set. Imagine you have three scores: 7, 8, and 9. The median is the middle, or 8. Now, if that 7 were a 2 instead, what would be the median? It would still be 8, because that's still the middle number.

It doesn't matter how much higher or how much lower you are than the median. One point below drags it down just as much as ten points below. Conversely, one point above isn't going to help any more than five points above.

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dowu
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby dowu » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:36 pm

TripTrip wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:
Nova wrote:Because you affect the medians the same way a 162/3.5 URM would.


Yes. I just learned that a few days ago but only generally. Can you expend on it?

USNWR ranking is based on medians, not averages. The median is the middle number of a set. Imagine you have three scores: 7, 8, and 9. The median is the middle, or 8. Now, if that 7 were a 2 instead, what would be the median? It would still be 8, because that's still the middle number.

It doesn't matter how much higher or how much lower you are than the median. One point below drags it down just as much as ten points below. Conversely, one point above isn't going to help any more than five points above.

TITCR. This is how they are able to accept URMs who are below their medians.

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JayJones78
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby JayJones78 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 8:52 pm

TripTrip wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:
Nova wrote:Because you affect the medians the same way a 162/3.5 URM would.


Yes. I just learned that a few days ago but only generally. Can you expend on it?

USNWR ranking is based on medians, not averages. The median is the middle number of a set. Imagine you have three scores: 7, 8, and 9. The median is the middle, or 8. Now, if that 7 were a 2 instead, what would be the median? It would still be 8, because that's still the middle number.

It doesn't matter how much higher or how much lower you are than the median. One point below drags it down just as much as ten points below. Conversely, one point above isn't going to help any more than five points above.


Interesting. So would you say that with URM admissions the process is more holistic?
Or rather that they are lying less?

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Nova
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby Nova » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:01 pm

Its not a URM thing. Its a below both medians thing.

But yeah, softs are more of a factor for below both median seats.

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JayJones78
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby JayJones78 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:19 pm

Nova wrote:Its not a URM thing. Its a below both medians thing.

But yeah, softs are more of a factor for below both median seats.


Makes sense :shock:. Thank you!

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sinfiery
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby sinfiery » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:40 pm

JayJones78 wrote:I think you're right overll. I am wondering though if the process is different for URM?

For example: I just got accepted to W&L with a 151/3.41
Why would they accept me if this was simply a numbers game?

retake the LSAT

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JayJones78
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Re: Why Lie About It?

Postby JayJones78 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:42 pm

sinfiery wrote:
JayJones78 wrote:I think you're right overll. I am wondering though if the process is different for URM?

For example: I just got accepted to W&L with a 151/3.41
Why would they accept me if this was simply a numbers game?

retake the LSAT


Thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.


**refer to the URM forum for my thread there if you want to know more.




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