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(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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NDJ
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Postby NDJ » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:23 pm

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Last edited by NDJ on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Rahviveh
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby Rahviveh » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:51 pm

Man this is really up to you. Youre probably getting into one of these two either way, possibly both. I think there is a tangible improvement in scholarship prospects by having a 177+, but its not big and combined with the likelihood (low) of being able to do better on a retake, the whole endeavor may not be worth it. If I had nothing better to do for the next few months and i was as confident as you are about getting an even higher score, then I might study lightly then take it in June with no pressure. But nobody would blame you for being happy with a 174? Congrats!!

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bluepenguin
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby bluepenguin » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:58 pm

I'd vote for a June retake. I think you're gonna at *least* get a waitlist from NYU or Columbia. An improvement in June would probably help you get off a waitlist, especially if they're having trouble filling seats. Might hurt you marginally if you go down, but I still think you could get NYU ED either way next year if you want it.

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NDJ
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby NDJ » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:42 am

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Last edited by NDJ on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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howlery
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby howlery » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:40 am

What scholarships are you talking about? The average Hamilton recipient has about a 3.8/175+, but I'm not sure about the Butler or other full-tuition PI scholarships that don't get talked about often. All the scholarships at NYU that one can apply for probably require high numbers but seem to be more about the essay and interview (?).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the OP probably doesn't have a shot at significant merit scholarships from either CLS or maybe NYU. Is this correct?

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bluepenguin
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby bluepenguin » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:14 pm

Well, kinda depends.
Compare mid ( http://myLSN.info/bm4xnr ) to late ( http://myLSN.info/r73lvg ).

By the time that February score came back there might not be much cash left.

With a higher June score and a well-prepped application sent in September it looks like there would be a great possibility for financial aid ( http://myLSN.info/olftt1 ). That on top of the extra year of work experience and savings.

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NDJ
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby NDJ » Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:50 pm

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Last edited by NDJ on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bluepenguin
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby bluepenguin » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:32 am

NDJ wrote:yeah, what you guys are saying definitely seems right. i know as of now i stand a poor chance for $, but with 176+ and an earlier app im hoping ill have a better shot for next year if this year doesnt work out..
any thoughts on whether next year's cycle will be easier/harder than this year, or if medians/floors/rankings will change?


"Rankings" might change. The relative value of the various T14 schools is unlikely to change in any remotely significant way.

Utterly, 100% uninformed speculation no better than what you could do on your own:
I think applications will stabilize, with small movement. If I had to place a bet I'd say down (5% if I had to get specific). People will continue to realize that law school is, by and large, a horrible investment. However, some people will see falling medians and try to buy low, as it were. I think in the T14 you'll be looking at essentially the same prospects, maybe minutely easier. But that's just guesswork.

Bonus: If Washington does something stupid and we hit a deep recession apps may spike again.

B90
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby B90 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:53 am

No snark here, honest answer. If you were PTing at 177, 174 was not underperforming. When you receive your score, LSAC told you it was in a "scoreband" of 171-177. As far As I know, the band is always the same; basically +/- 3. That is because you could have been given a number of different test booklets with sections in different orders. You also could have been given any section as your experimental. These differences can cause fluctuations in your score.
For that reason, many people, including myself, advise against a retake unless you are fairly certain you can score at least 3 points higher. When you are scoring at such a high level there is a real risk that you could score lower, due to some bad luck in getting an impossibly difficult experimental RC section first, for example, which exhausts your brain to the point that you make more mistakes than you otherwise would.
Unless you are Dave Hall, that is. :wink:

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domori
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby domori » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:24 am

if you got nothing better to do, sure, why not? retake in Feb or June - I'd go for Feb - since you'd get the results back in March

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NDJ
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby NDJ » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:12 am

B90 wrote:No snark here, honest answer. If you were PTing at 177, 174 was not underperforming. When you receive your score, LSAC told you it was in a "scoreband" of 171-177. As far As I know, the band is always the same; basically +/- 3. That is because you could have been given a number of different test booklets with sections in different orders. You also could have been given any section as your experimental. These differences can cause fluctuations in your score.
For that reason, many people, including myself, advise against a retake unless you are fairly certain you can score at least 3 points higher. When you are scoring at such a high level there is a real risk that you could score lower, due to some bad luck in getting an impossibly difficult experimental RC section first, for example, which exhausts your brain to the point that you make more mistakes than you otherwise would.
Unless you are Dave Hall, that is. :wink:


everything youre saying makes sense and i generally agree. however,

a) scoreband or not, there are people who score 177, and these people, statistically, definitely do much better in terms of scholarship than people who score 174 at schools around the CCN ranking, from what I can gather at least.
b) assuming i can score higher, even if it bought me 20k in scholarship money (let alone acceptance into a better school), that would certainly be worth a few hours a week for 3 months to me.
c) performing worse seems to not hold serious repercussions, since--from what people seem to say--schools always place the most weight by far on the highest score, despite the ones that claim otherwise. (please correct me if im wrong here since i might be.)
d) if i had studied for 4 months, and for the last month i was scoring 170-180, i would say a retake might be a bad idea. but i studied for just 5 or so weeks, and only by the very end was beginning to score upper 170's, which seems to indicate i can increase my odds greatly of scoring high 170s with a few months of study to build consistency. (i wish i had studied for longer, but taking the lsat/applying for schools was as i said a very last minute decision for me.. my plan was always to retake if i couldnt get the score i needed..)

domori wrote:if you got nothing better to do, sure, why not? retake in Feb or June - I'd go for Feb - since you'd get the results back in March


Since i will be busy in the coming weeks, i think the probability that a) i can score higher in 1 month and b) that it will have any impact this late in the cycle doesnt make it worth it for me to cram for the Feb retake. i would rather study less intensively over more time and try to kill it in June.. but i may just be looking for excuses since i could use at least another couple of months off from reading about crop irrigation and slavery.. :)

B90
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby B90 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:15 pm

NDJ wrote:
B90 wrote:No snark here, honest answer. If you were PTing at 177, 174 was not underperforming. When you receive your score, LSAC told you it was in a "scoreband" of 171-177. As far As I know, the band is always the same; basically +/- 3. That is because you could have been given a number of different test booklets with sections in different orders. You also could have been given any section as your experimental. These differences can cause fluctuations in your score.
For that reason, many people, including myself, advise against a retake unless you are fairly certain you can score at least 3 points higher. When you are scoring at such a high level there is a real risk that you could score lower, due to some bad luck in getting an impossibly difficult experimental RC section first, for example, which exhausts your brain to the point that you make more mistakes than you otherwise would.
Unless you are Dave Hall, that is. :wink:


everything youre saying makes sense and i generally agree. however,


a) scoreband or not, there are people who score 177, and these people, statistically, definitely do much better in terms of scholarship than people who score 174 at schools around the CCN ranking, from what I can gather at least.
b) assuming i can score higher, even if it bought me 20k in scholarship money (let alone acceptance into a better school), that would certainly be worth a few hours a week for 3 months to me.
c) performing worse seems to not hold serious repercussions, since--from what people seem to say--schools always place the most weight by far on the highest score, despite the ones that claim otherwise. (please correct me if im wrong here since i might be.)
d) if i had studied for 4 months, and for the last month i was scoring 170-180, i would say a retake might be a bad idea. but i studied for just 5 or so weeks, and only by the very end was beginning to score upper 170's, which seems to indicate i can increase my odds greatly of scoring high 170s with a few months of study to build consistency. (i wish i had studied for longer, but taking the lsat/applying for schools was as i said a very last minute decision for me.. my plan was always to retake if i couldnt get the score i needed..)

domori wrote:if you got nothing better to do, sure, why not? retake in Feb or June - I'd go for Feb - since you'd get the results back in March


Since i will be busy in the coming weeks, i think the probability that a) i can score higher in 1 month and b) that it will have any impact this late in the cycle doesnt make it worth it for me to cram for the Feb retake. i would rather study less intensively over more time and try to kill it in June.. but i may just be looking for excuses since i could use at least another couple of months off from reading about crop irrigation and slavery.. :)

I agree with your plan. To be clear, I believe you can improve your score. I also think it won't have any negative effect to score the same or even a point or two lower. I really don't think even YSH will look at a 174, 172 and think, "When he had a 174 he was worthy of us, but now that we see that 174, DENIED!"
I agree that an improvement could get you significant $ and would be worth it, if you are up to it. My only caution is to make sure you are not totally burned out; the LSAT isn't worth your health or sanity! :wink: If I were you, I would sign up for June once all your apps are in. Don't sign up before then, since it could delay acceptances. I would then take a couple weeks off from the LSAT to clear your head and take care of the rest of your life. Once you get your acceptances, notify those schools and tell them you are taking the June test and plan to increase your score.
Good luck!

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NDJ
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Re: 174 / 3.55 - Any point to retake in Feb(/Jun) for the fall?

Postby NDJ » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:52 pm

ok awesome - thanks for all the pointers, good luck to you as well!




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