Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

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megagnarley
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Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby megagnarley » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:03 am

I'll keep this brief.

3.64 GPA from a good undergrad. Above average softs. Whatever.

169 in OCT. PT'ing around 176 for Dec but misdiagrammed the last LG and had to guess on 5. Sucks to suck. Ended up going -6 on LG (-0/-1 on PT's) and ended up with a 170.

GPA keeps me out of YS. Dream schools are HC. Turning 26 though, beyond unhappy with current job, believe I am starting to go bald, and I would rather get on with this phase of my life. Realtalk.

Expecting to nab Mich and maybe one more T-10. In your opinion, worth it to take June and wait a year just to jump from a T-10 up to Columbia?

Apps are already in and I'll see how the cycle plays out, but trying to carve out a long term plan.

Boom.

ETA: Shit talking welcome

Randomnumbers
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby Randomnumbers » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:09 am

Take it again. If you do score super high, than look at how your apps for this go-around turned out, and consider if you want to rewait. Even if you can't sign up for Feb, can always take it in june in time to withdraw. Just give yourself the most options you can to make the best decision possible later.

Ti Malice
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:17 am

It would be worth retaking so that you have the option of choosing either CLS or MVP with a lot of money, rather than just Michigan at or near sticker. I understand wanting to move on with your life, but you're really not old for law school, and one more year of a crappy job and some amount of time on more LSAT prep is worth the payoff. A mid-170s score could be worth tens of thousands of dollars in tuition money or admission to a school that will give you a much stronger shot at a job that will service the debt.
Last edited by Ti Malice on Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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EvilClinton
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby EvilClinton » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:17 am

megagnarley wrote:I'll keep this brief.

3.64 GPA from a good undergrad. Above average softs. Whatever.

169 in OCT. PT'ing around 176 for Dec but misdiagrammed the last LG and had to guess on 5. Sucks to suck. Ended up going -6 on LG (-0/-1 on PT's) and ended up with a 170.

GPA keeps me out of YS. Dream schools are HC. Turning 26 though, beyond unhappy with current job, believe I am starting to go bald, and I would rather get on with this phase of my life. Realtalk.

Expecting to nab Mich and maybe one more T-10. In your opinion, worth it to take June and wait a year just to jump from a T-10 up to Columbia?

Apps are already in and I'll see how the cycle plays out, but trying to carve out a long term plan.

Boom.

ETA: Shit talking welcome

You have no shot at H or C look to maybe get into a lower T14.

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-content/uploads/Law-School-Predictor-Full-Time-Programs.htm

Ti Malice
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:19 am

EvilClinton wrote:
megagnarley wrote:I'll keep this brief.

3.64 GPA from a good undergrad. Above average softs. Whatever.

169 in OCT. PT'ing around 176 for Dec but misdiagrammed the last LG and had to guess on 5. Sucks to suck. Ended up going -6 on LG (-0/-1 on PT's) and ended up with a 170.

GPA keeps me out of YS. Dream schools are HC. Turning 26 though, beyond unhappy with current job, believe I am starting to go bald, and I would rather get on with this phase of my life. Realtalk.

Expecting to nab Mich and maybe one more T-10. In your opinion, worth it to take June and wait a year just to jump from a T-10 up to Columbia?

Apps are already in and I'll see how the cycle plays out, but trying to carve out a long term plan.

Boom.

ETA: Shit talking welcome

You have no shot at H or C look to maybe get into a lower T14.

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-content/uploads/Law-School-Predictor-Full-Time-Programs.htm


Unresponsive. Also, LSP is worthless.

bdubs
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby bdubs » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:21 am

Good luck. A 169 would more than likely have shut you out of the T14 two years ago. I would retake for $$, but Michigan isn't a bad option if you've got it.

Agree that you're just not going to get into Harvard. Columbia might be an option if you hit 176+

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EvilClinton
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby EvilClinton » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:23 am

Ti Malice wrote:Unresponsive. Also, LSP is worthless.

It predicted my cycle with almost scary accuracy. Granted that was two years ago.

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megagnarley
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby megagnarley » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:28 am

EvilClinton wrote:
megagnarley wrote:I'll keep this brief.

3.64 GPA from a good undergrad. Above average softs. Whatever.

169 in OCT. PT'ing around 176 for Dec but misdiagrammed the last LG and had to guess on 5. Sucks to suck. Ended up going -6 on LG (-0/-1 on PT's) and ended up with a 170.

GPA keeps me out of YS. Dream schools are HC. Turning 26 though, beyond unhappy with current job, believe I am starting to go bald, and I would rather get on with this phase of my life. Realtalk.

Expecting to nab Mich and maybe one more T-10. In your opinion, worth it to take June and wait a year just to jump from a T-10 up to Columbia?

Apps are already in and I'll see how the cycle plays out, but trying to carve out a long term plan.

Boom.

ETA: Shit talking welcome

You have no shot at H or C look to maybe get into a lower T14.

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-content/uploads/Law-School-Predictor-Full-Time-Programs.htm


Look at LSN. There is a good shot with a mid-170 score. People have already gotten in this cycle with 3.6+172ish numbers.
Last edited by megagnarley on Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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megagnarley
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby megagnarley » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:30 am

Ti Malice wrote:It would be worth retaking so that you have the option of choosing either CLS or MVP with a lot of money, rather than just Michigan at or near sticker. I understand wanting to move on with your life, but you're really not old for law school, and one more year of a crappy job and some amount of time on more LSAT prep is worth the payoff. A mid-170s score could be worth tens of thousands of dollars in tuition money or admission to a school that will give you a much stronger shot at a job that will service the debt.


Valid. Advice hold even if I sneak into UVA or Penn?

The scholarship point I concede and this is where I find the most reason to wait.

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Borg
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby Borg » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:33 am

bdubs wrote:Good luck. A 169 would more than likely have shut you out of the T14 two years ago. I would retake for $$, but Michigan isn't a bad option if you've got it.

Agree that you're just not going to get into Harvard. Columbia might be an option if you hit 176+


He'll be out at Columbia with a 169, but I would say a 173 and an application early on in the cycle would give him a decent shot. OP, I say retake after submitting apps. If you get your 176 you will be looking at much better prospects. In at Columbia (possibly with money), and money at probably at least one of MVPB.

As an aside, it's amazing how much this conversation has changed since 2008. When I was applying Georgetown at sticker was a no-brainer for a lot of people, now even Michigan at full price is cause for concern.

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megagnarley
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby megagnarley » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:33 am

Randomnumbers wrote:Take it again. If you do score super high, than look at how your apps for this go-around turned out, and consider if you want to rewait. Even if you can't sign up for Feb, can always take it in june in time to withdraw. Just give yourself the most options you can to make the best decision possible later.


Feb would be ideal in theory, but June seems safer given that I'll already have certain admits.

In off chance I bomb, I have no more retakes so I don't want to screw my current cycle if I can help it.

Yea.

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megagnarley
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby megagnarley » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:35 am

Borg wrote:
bdubs wrote:Good luck. A 169 would more than likely have shut you out of the T14 two years ago. I would retake for $$, but Michigan isn't a bad option if you've got it.

Agree that you're just not going to get into Harvard. Columbia might be an option if you hit 176+


He'll be out at Columbia with a 169, but I would say a 173 and an application early on in the cycle would give him a decent shot. OP, I say retake after submitting apps. If you get your 176 you will be looking at much better prospects. In at Columbia (possibly with money), and money at probably at least one of MVPB.

As an aside, it's amazing how much this conversation has changed since 2008. When I was applying Georgetown at sticker was a no-brainer for a lot of people, now even Michigan at full price is cause for concern.


Not that it changes that much but I currently have a 170. Not a 169.

Regarding the aside: difficulty in admissions commensurate with superiority of job prospects?

Ti Malice
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:41 am

bdubs wrote:Agree that you're just not going to get into Harvard. Columbia might be an option if you hit 176+


He definitely doesn't need to hit 176 for CLS. He's in very strong shape with anything above a 172: http://myLSN.info/bhowgi. With the huge decline in high-scorers, he has a better than 50% chance even with just a 172.

EvilClinton wrote:It predicted my cycle with almost scary accuracy. Granted that was two years ago.


The problem isn't that it can't ever be an accurate predictor. The problem is that it so often isn't.

Ti Malice
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:43 am

megagnarley wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:It would be worth retaking so that you have the option of choosing either CLS or MVP with a lot of money, rather than just Michigan at or near sticker. I understand wanting to move on with your life, but you're really not old for law school, and one more year of a crappy job and some amount of time on more LSAT prep is worth the payoff. A mid-170s score could be worth tens of thousands of dollars in tuition money or admission to a school that will give you a much stronger shot at a job that will service the debt.


Valid. Advice hold even if I sneak into UVA or Penn?

The scholarship point I concede and this is where I find the most reason to wait.


I think the advice stays the same. Don't settle for sticker at those schools when retaking could save you from tens of thousands of dollars of debt.

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megagnarley
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby megagnarley » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:51 am

Ti Malice wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:It would be worth retaking so that you have the option of choosing either CLS or MVP with a lot of money, rather than just Michigan at or near sticker. I understand wanting to move on with your life, but you're really not old for law school, and one more year of a crappy job and some amount of time on more LSAT prep is worth the payoff. A mid-170s score could be worth tens of thousands of dollars in tuition money or admission to a school that will give you a much stronger shot at a job that will service the debt.


Valid. Advice hold even if I sneak into UVA or Penn?

The scholarship point I concede and this is where I find the most reason to wait.


I think the advice stays the same. Don't settle for sticker at those schools when retaking could save you from tens of thousands of dollars of debt.


Sound.

Observe cycle...take June...weigh options.

Approve.

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Borg
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby Borg » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:05 am

megagnarley wrote:
Borg wrote:
bdubs wrote:Good luck. A 169 would more than likely have shut you out of the T14 two years ago. I would retake for $$, but Michigan isn't a bad option if you've got it.

Agree that you're just not going to get into Harvard. Columbia might be an option if you hit 176+


He'll be out at Columbia with a 169, but I would say a 173 and an application early on in the cycle would give him a decent shot. OP, I say retake after submitting apps. If you get your 176 you will be looking at much better prospects. In at Columbia (possibly with money), and money at probably at least one of MVPB.

As an aside, it's amazing how much this conversation has changed since 2008. When I was applying Georgetown at sticker was a no-brainer for a lot of people, now even Michigan at full price is cause for concern.


Not that it changes that much but I currently have a 170. Not a 169.

Regarding the aside: difficulty in admissions commensurate with superiority of job prospects?


Sorry, misread. Still, you're right it's probably the same with a 170.

As for the aside, I'm not sure what effect employment prospects will have either this year or going forward. It's strange because there are fewer test takers, so 172+ scores will be coveted. At the same time, it seems like some of the top schools (Columbia included) are reducing class sizes to maintain medians, diminishing some of this effect. Add to this complication the fact that the Law School Transparency data have become somewhat mature and are commonly referenced by applicants at top schools, and those data show that Columbia has an employment advantage over both Chicago and NYU. This employment difference might sway more accepted students away from Columbia's rivals. I think you would be safe with a 3.64/173 this cycle, but it might be the case that in the coming years Columbia may see a higher yield. Very hard to predict.

When I was applying, it seemed like any of the T-14 were safe bets, and the basic mantra was that they were essentially equal for biglaw prospects and only differed with respect to clerkships and public interest opportunities. This is no longer the case.

JWalker
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby JWalker » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:05 am

Definitely retake.

172+ and I think you'll get Columbia and down.

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bowser
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby bowser » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:11 am

A 170 actually changes things significantly from a 169, because 170 hits median for like half the T-14. But if you think you can get a 172+ you should absolutely retake. If you actually get to a 176 Harvard isn't out of the question, and you'd be in the running for very big scholarships elsewhere.

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thelawyler
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby thelawyler » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:13 am

Might as well apply now, see what happens. You'll probably be satisfied at least with those options. And then go and retake in June without the crazy pressure that usually comes with the LSAT. This may make you perform better. If you do improve, reapply/ask for a big fat scholarship with better LSAT. If you don't improve, you just take the offer you are already satisfied with (presumably). Win-win. I did a very similar thing and am absolutely glad I did.
Last edited by thelawyler on Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bowser
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby bowser » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:22 am

So your apps are already in, right? A 170/3.64 probably will do okay in a cycle where applications are collapsing--if your app is decent you'll probably end up with around 50k (possibly more, esp. if you negotiate) at multiple T-14's. But even if you end up with a decent scholly at a T-14, if you think you can do better you should retake in June (knowing you have okay options in hand). Your GPA is pretty much neutral, but if you can boost your LSAT to where it's around the 75ths of multiple schools (171-173 range), you'll be in much better territory.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:21 pm

I was 27 when I decided to re-take and try again the next year. You only go to law school once. Might as well do it right.

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dingbat
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby dingbat » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:41 pm

Why can't you retake in February?

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sinfiery
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby sinfiery » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:48 pm

All we can tell you is that it is worth it to retake if you were scoring higher. Be it for more $$ where you are now or for increasing your acceptance range. At the same time, going to lawschool with your current numbers isn't so wholly irresponsible we would definitely advise against it.


So, If you can deal with the implications of retaking on your personal life is the main determining factor of if you should or should not. We cannot help you with this decision.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:04 pm

megagnarley wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:It would be worth retaking so that you have the option of choosing either CLS or MVP with a lot of money, rather than just Michigan at or near sticker. I understand wanting to move on with your life, but you're really not old for law school, and one more year of a crappy job and some amount of time on more LSAT prep is worth the payoff. A mid-170s score could be worth tens of thousands of dollars in tuition money or admission to a school that will give you a much stronger shot at a job that will service the debt.


Valid. Advice hold even if I sneak into UVA or Penn?

The scholarship point I concede and this is where I find the most reason to wait.


I think the advice stays the same. Don't settle for sticker at those schools when retaking could save you from tens of thousands of dollars of debt.


Sound.

Observe cycle...take June...weigh options.

Approve.


^Basically this. If you get wl'd at Columbia, you might even have a shot at getting off the WL with a June score. (It happened to me for UT and Vanderbilt, both with $$, when I went from applying with a 166 to a 174 June score.) The potential advantage for Feb. over june is that you increase your shot at $$ from MVP (June score may still help with that, but they may also be running out of scholarship money by then. (I wish I could remember when ASD was at UVA, b/c when I reapplied with the 174, they send me and others scholarship money info during ASD--so if they do things the same it would be helpful to know when they start sending out scholarship money offers.) Another advantage of Feb. is that you might avoid a reject from Columbia (it might be possible to email them and ask for them to wait on your Feb. score), and have a shot at Columbia this cycle. Like you noted though, there might be a little risk with a feb retake messing with your cycle if you bomb it.

Overall, I'd be maybe a little more open to retaking in February, but retaking in June seems like a good plan too.

(Also, waiting a year can be a good decision, if it's the one that makes the most sense when you have your feb or june score back and the results from this cycle. I decided to reapply after my June retake and even though I still ended up going to UT next cycle, I was happy with my decision to wait and fully consider other options that I didn't have my first cycle. Being in your late 20s in law school is not a big deal.)

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megagnarley
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Re: Worth it to wait a year for Columbia?

Postby megagnarley » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:12 pm

ITT: serious wisdom.

For those asking about Feb, I just don't want to risk it. When schools see I'm registered for Feb some are going to wait for that score and if I don't end up doing better (or do worse) I'm going to be needlessly pushing my apps to the end of the cycle. Not my cup of tea.

Taking in June: yes.

Looks like a good June score opens up a world of opportunity.




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