They say don't go to law school.....

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
Toshiba31
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:33 pm

They say don't go to law school.....

Postby Toshiba31 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:15 pm

I'm not completely naive, or ignorant. I know that the law profession is struggling and that good legal jobs are more difficult to obtain now. Since being accepted to my first choice law school last month, I have had a few people who are either in law school or have graduated, tell me that I shouldn't go because things are just that bad out there. The problem is that the person who has completed law school and is struggling graduated from a T4 school with a 35% employment rate. The other person who is attempting to discourage me is at a T4 school with a 28% employment rate. How seriously should I take their warning? The school I'm going to attend is highly regarded in our state, is T2 with a 78% employment rate and offered me a scholarship that will leave me with probably less than $30,000 debt. I'm not one of those "oh my school is better than yours" people but I did a substantial amount of research before making the decision to apply and I was prepared to walk away if I couldn't get into a school that gave me a somewhat decent chance of getting a legal job in such an abysmal market. I know I'm still taking a huge risk, but how much weight should I give their discouragement? Do all law school graduates (aside from the top 14 obviously) have the same experiences upon graduating?
Last edited by Toshiba31 on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
dingbat
Posts: 4976
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:22 pm

Toshiba31 wrote: The school I'm going to attend is highly regarded in our state, is T2 with a 78% employment rate and offered me a scholarship that will leave me with probably less than $30,000 debt.

Go.

note: I'm assuming it's not a state like New York or California, where there are dozens of schools. If your school is the top one in a small market, (or maybe second in a slightly bigger market) and you don't harbor dreams of biglaw or a federal clerkship, it sounds like a great idea

User avatar
wbrother
Posts: 499
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:02 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby wbrother » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:23 pm

You should verify your school's employment score here: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=other. $30,000 is pretty cheap if that's all it will cost you. Make sure you factor in COL. But since you'll probably be living even if you don't attend school, just subtract your current COL from the COL you'd be paying if you attend.

If you get into Berkeley, you shouldn't listen to Golden Gate students about how tough the job market in the bay is. Talk to people who graduate from the school you're thinking of going to and people that go there.

Oh yeah, since this is TLS I'm required to type "retake" in every other post. It can be good advice, depending on the situation.

User avatar
dextermorgan
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:37 am

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby dextermorgan » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:24 pm

Toshiba31 wrote:I'm not completely naive, or ignorant. I know that the law profession is struggling and that good legal jobs are more difficult to obtain now. Since being accepted to my first choice law school last month, I have had a few people who are either in law school or have graduated tell me that I shouldn't go, that things are just that bad out there. The problem is that the person who has completed law school and is struggling graduated from a T4 school with a 35% employment rate. The other person who is attempting to discourage me is at a T4 school with a 28% employment rate. How seriously should I take their warning? The school I'm going to attend is highly regarded in our state, is T2 with a 78% employment rate and offered me a scholarship that will leave me with probably less than $30,000 debt. I'm not one of those "oh my school is better than yours" people but I did a substantial amount of research before making the decision to apply and I was prepared to walk away if I couldn't get into a school that gave me a somewhat decent chance of getting a legal job in such an abysmal market. I know I'm still taking a huge risk, but how much weight should I give their discouragement? Do all law school graduates (aside from the top 14 obviously) have the same experiences upon graduating?

LSU?

It really is that bad out there, but LSU can probably land you a 50K job if you hustle hard enough. 50K per year to pay off 30K in debt isn't too bad, as long as you know you want to be a lawyer for the long term and you aren't giving up anything significant in the three years you will be in school.

User avatar
TripTrip
Posts: 2740
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:52 am

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby TripTrip » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:25 pm

Toshiba31 wrote:T2 with a 78% employment rate

Try again

User avatar
dingbat
Posts: 4976
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:27 pm

wbrother wrote:If you get into Berkeley, you shouldn't listen to Golden Gate students about how tough the job market in the bay is. Talk to people who graduate from the school you're thinking of going to and people that go there.

Because Berkeley is a T2...

User avatar
dextermorgan
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:37 am

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby dextermorgan » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:27 pm

wbrother wrote:Make sure you factor in COL. But since you'll probably be living even if you don't attend school, just subtract your current COL from the COL you'd be paying if you attend.

This makes no sense because most people have jobs to pay their COL out of school, as opposed to the loans that most people take out to pay COL while in school.

User avatar
dextermorgan
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:37 am

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby dextermorgan » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:28 pm

TripTrip wrote:
Toshiba31 wrote:T2 with a 78% employment rate

Try again

Ahem... http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=lsu

User avatar
justonemoregame
Posts: 1160
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:51 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby justonemoregame » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:28 pm

TripTrip wrote:
Toshiba31 wrote:T2 with a 78% employment rate

Try again



?

User avatar
TripTrip
Posts: 2740
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:52 am

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby TripTrip » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:33 pm

dextermorgan wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
Toshiba31 wrote:T2 with a 78% employment rate

Try again

Ahem... http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=lsu

Good point. OP?

Toshiba31
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby Toshiba31 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:34 pm

Thanks for the responses. Great advice! Yes it is LSU.

User avatar
TripTrip
Posts: 2740
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:52 am

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby TripTrip » Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:39 pm


WhiskeynCoke
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:12 am

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby WhiskeynCoke » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:31 pm

offered me a scholarship that will leave me with probably less than $30,000 debt.


First off... are there any scholarship stipulations other than "good standing?" (GPA requirements, top 1/3, etc...)
You need to ask yourself "what's the worst that can happen?" 30k of debt is manageable, even if you can only get a job at Starbucks. I would go. The people giving you horror stories are probably 6 figures in debt, at a much worse schools than you have the opportunity of attending for CHEAP. If you lose your scholly for any reason just be prepared to walk away.

User avatar
francesfarmer
Posts: 1409
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:52 am

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby francesfarmer » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:36 pm

TripTrip wrote:http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=lsu&show=sals

That's not too bad for $30k debt.

This makes me want to move to Lousiana and go to LSU.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:40 pm

Go. (You might be able to scalp your student football tickets over 3 years & earn a profit. :D )

User avatar
BlueJeanBaby
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:46 pm

TripTrip wrote:
Toshiba31 wrote:T2 with a 78% employment rate

Try again


Whoa whoa whoa. How seriously should someone take those numbers? For example, it is showing Georgia State to be doing much better than UGA, and Campbell (my local TTT..T) doing better than Notre Dame and Georgetown...

User avatar
dingbat
Posts: 4976
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:49 pm

BlueJeanBaby wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
Toshiba31 wrote:T2 with a 78% employment rate

Try again


Whoa whoa whoa. How seriously should someone take those numbers? For example, it is showing Georgia State to be doing much better than UGA, and Campbell (my local TTT..T) doing better than Notre Dame and Georgetown...

It has flawed methodology: it doesn't account for quality of jobs.
This means 2 failed grass starting their own firm count for more than 1 biglaw associate
There's value, but it's not perfect

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:54 pm

BlueJeanBaby wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
Toshiba31 wrote:T2 with a 78% employment rate

Try again


Whoa whoa whoa. How seriously should someone take those numbers? For example, it is showing Georgia State to be doing much better than UGA, and Campbell (my local TTT..T) doing better than Notre Dame and Georgetown...


You have to factor in salaries and national scope. So ND and Georgetown have more students competing for the top jobs, biglaw, fed gov, A3 clerkships, etc etc. Your chances for those jobs might not be worth 225K, but they are many times better than at Campbell, and if the debt is the same it still makes sense to go to the more expensive one. Problem is the debt is not going to be the same.

And obviously, Campbell's reach is very small. If it's class tried to all go to NY or DC they'd have a FTLJ rating of 5%. However, if your goal is small law or local gov in the area around the school and you can go for near-free, I'd pick Campbell over Georgetown.

User avatar
BlueJeanBaby
Posts: 630
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby BlueJeanBaby » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:01 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
BlueJeanBaby wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
Toshiba31 wrote:T2 with a 78% employment rate

Try again


Whoa whoa whoa. How seriously should someone take those numbers? For example, it is showing Georgia State to be doing much better than UGA, and Campbell (my local TTT..T) doing better than Notre Dame and Georgetown...


You have to factor in salaries and national scope. So ND and Georgetown have more students competing for the top jobs, biglaw, fed gov, A3 clerkships, etc etc. Your chances for those jobs might not be worth 225K, but they are many times better than at Campbell, and if the debt is the same it still makes sense to go to the more expensive one. Problem is the debt is not going to be the same.

And obviously, Campbell's reach is very small. If it's class tried to all go to NY or DC they'd have a FTLJ rating of 5%. However, if your goal is small law or local gov in the area around the school and you can go for near-free, I'd pick Campbell over Georgetown.


This is making me rethink my choice of attending UGA for about 60k in debt over GA state for about 30k in debt.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:03 pm

Not sure, but aren't a lot of GSU law students attending part-time while continuing to work ?

UGa. is full-time only.

Toshiba31
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby Toshiba31 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:13 pm

First off... are there any scholarship stipulations other than "good standing?" (GPA requirements, top 1/3, etc...)
You need to ask yourself "what's the worst that can happen?" 30k of debt is manageable, even if you can only get a job at Starbucks. I would go. The people giving you horror stories are probably 6 figures in debt, at a much worse schools than you have the opportunity of attending for CHEAP. If you lose your scholly for any reason just be prepared to walk away.[/quote]

Just says good standing, no other requirements.

CanadianWolf wrote:Go. (You might be able to scalp your student football tickets over 3 years & earn a profit. :D )


You know this is brilliant right?? LOL I've never thought of that!

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15506
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:22 pm

How do you expect to end up with just 30K in debt?

LOLyer
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby LOLyer » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:28 pm

If you know you have it in you, do it. If not, then don't. It's that simple, really. But if you're phased by what the slapdicks on this forum tell you, then you probably don't have it in you.

Toshiba31
Posts: 70
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:33 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby Toshiba31 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:37 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:How do you expect to end up with just 30K in debt?


I've been offered a scholarship and I'm a resident of Louisiana so tuition is around 18,000 a yr. 30k would supplement what isn't covered by my scholarship *should I perform well enough to keep it all 3 yrs*

LOLyer wrote:If you know you have it in you, do it. If not, then don't. It's that simple, really. But if you're phased by what the slapdicks on this forum tell you, then you probably don't have it in you.


I would like to think I have it in me :) I just don't know too many people who are familiar with the entire process and the state of the profession right now. The only people in the field that I do know have told me nothing but horror stories. I come to TLS to get a larger sample size I guess lol.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: They say don't go to law school.....

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:51 pm

BlueJeanBaby wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
You have to factor in salaries and national scope. So ND and Georgetown have more students competing for the top jobs, biglaw, fed gov, A3 clerkships, etc etc. Your chances for those jobs might not be worth 225K, but they are many times better than at Campbell, and if the debt is the same it still makes sense to go to the more expensive one. Problem is the debt is not going to be the same.

And obviously, Campbell's reach is very small. If it's class tried to all go to NY or DC they'd have a FTLJ rating of 5%. However, if your goal is small law or local gov in the area around the school and you can go for near-free, I'd pick Campbell over Georgetown.


This is making me rethink my choice of attending UGA for about 60k in debt over GA state for about 30k in debt.


GA State may also benefit from being located in the major metro area contested by both schools, instead of a college town. The question is: what do you want to do with your degree?




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Clyde Frog, Exabot [Bot], JoshLyman13 and 5 guests