What does my future look like? Forum

rvadog · Post by **rvadog** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:45 pm

I'm taking the LSAT in June and from there will decide if I want to go to law school. I have some unusual conditions though. I'm active duty military so not only will I be attending school part time but I will have no choice in where I go (I transfer to a new location for the next 4-5 years in June). If I transfer to Jacksonville then it's Florida Coastal, if Louisville it's UofL. Good news is because of GI Bill I won't be paying for it.

What does my future in law look like? I have no interest in big law, would prefer public defense federal special agent job over anything else. So possibly graduating from a T4 school, with no internships but no debt and great softs...do I end up working at walmart of not PD or Federal LE?

Sorry if this rambles, just wondering what people do that graduate from T4 schools and don't get hired right away.

dowu · Post by **dowu** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:47 pm

rvadog wrote:I'm taking the LSAT in June and from there will decide if I want to go to law school. I have some unusual conditions though. I'm active duty military so not only will I be attending school part time but I will have no choice in where I go (I transfer to a new location for the next 4-5 years in June). If I transfer to Jacksonville then it's Florida Coastal, if Louisville it's UofL. Good news is because of GI Bill I won't be paying for it.

What does my future in law look like? I have no interest in big law, would prefer public defense federal special agent job over anything else. So possibly graduating from a T4 school, with no internships but no debt and great softs...do I end up working at walmart of not PD or Federal LE?

Sorry if this rambles, just wondering what people do that graduate from T4 schools and don't get hired right away.

starbucks.

bluepenguin · Post by **bluepenguin** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:49 pm

Difficult to say, but why not wait until you separate? If you score well on the LSAT you can go to a much better school for free or near-free and have correspondingly better employment prospects?

rvadog · Post by **rvadog** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:00 pm

The opportunity cost would be 120-200K to wait. Right now I can attend law school and get paid at the same time, leave the CG with a law degree. The alternative is get out, move my wife and home across the country and live on single her income for three years...it's a possibility but I feel the PT route is better for me.

TheThriller · Post by **TheThriller** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:19 pm

JAG if you have a solid military record

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:22 pm

Depends what school you get into. I'd rather slice off my own pinkie than attend FL Coastal.

MarcusAurelius · Post by **MarcusAurelius** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:41 pm

rad lulz wrote:Depends what school you get into. I'd rather slice off my own pinkie than attend FL Coastal.

BlueJeanBaby · Post by **BlueJeanBaby** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:54 pm

rvadog wrote:The opportunity cost would be 120-200K to wait. Right now I can attend law school and get paid at the same time, leave the CG with a law degree. The alternative is get out, move my wife and home across the country and live on single her income for three years...it's a possibility but I feel the PT route is better for me.

Living on your wife's salary for a few years might not be so hard since your school and housing will be paid for.. especially if you take the next few years (until you get out of the military) to save up. My husband is active duty and he is going to be 100% supporting me while I am in law school as well as supporting himself and paying all of our bills. I've been saving up the past year or so to help knock down my tuition bills. The point is, I know it is going to be rough to have two adults living off of one, mediocre (at best) salary, but it CAN be done.
I think the potential earning difference between a T14, or even a T1 school, compared to Florida Coastal will more than out last your 120-200K over time. Even in Jacksonville, Florida Coastal is considered laughable (unlike some T4s and T3s that are actually somewhat respected in their market, like Stetson in Tampa). Just a few things to consider.

Also: You may want to check out the cap on your GI Bill. I think FL Coastal has an insane tuition rate, and your GI Bill may not even be enough.

bluepenguin · Post by **bluepenguin** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:21 pm

BlueJeanBaby wrote:
rvadog wrote:The opportunity cost would be 120-200K to wait. Right now I can attend law school and get paid at the same time, leave the CG with a law degree. The alternative is get out, move my wife and home across the country and live on single her income for three years...it's a possibility but I feel the PT route is better for me.
Living on your wife's salary for a few years might not be so hard since your school and housing will be paid for.. especially if you take the next few years (until you get out of the military) to save up. My husband is active duty and he is going to be 100% supporting me while I am in law school as well as supporting himself and paying all of our bills. I've been saving up the past year or so to help knock down my tuition bills. The point is, I know it is going to be rough to have two adults living off of one, mediocre (at best) salary, but it CAN be done.
I think the potential earning difference between a T14, or even a T1 school, compared to Florida Coastal will more than out last your 120-200K over time. Even in Jacksonville, Florida Coastal is considered laughable (unlike some T4s and T3s that are actually somewhat respected in their market, like Stetson in Tampa). Just a few things to consider.

Also: You may want to check out the cap on your GI Bill. I think FL Coastal has an insane tuition rate, and your GI Bill may not even be enough.

This.

You lose your base pay but you still keep BAH (although if you're an NCO it might drop slightly...).

Also there's the tuition cap for the GI Bill. I doubt FL Coastal has significant YRP support, but several of the higher ranked schools are extremely generous in that regard.

Once you factor in those components plus the huge difference in employment prospects it strikes me that the better option would be to go to the best school.

And if you really want to keep your salary, go to Georgetown part time after you get out and work at Home Depot or something during the day.

rvadog · Post by **rvadog** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:46 pm

I appreciate the advice but it's really not an option at this point. Let me put it this way.

My primary goal is to get a Special Agent job in federal LE (i.e. FBI, ICE, DEA).

I will be 31 and some months when my enlistment is done. If I wait until my enlistment is over and then go to law school I'm looking at graduating at 34 at the earliest giving me basically one chance at getting a LE job before aging out.

North · Post by **North** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:03 pm

The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Florida Coastal won't do you any favors.

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:05 pm

rvadog wrote:I appreciate the advice but it's really not an option at this point. Let me put it this way.

My primary goal is to get a Special Agent job in federal LE (i.e. FBI, ICE, DEA).

I will be 31 and some months when my enlistment is done. If I wait until my enlistment is over and then go to law school I'm looking at graduating at 34 at the earliest giving me basically one chance at getting a LE job before aging out.

Wow.... this is a toughie. Sorry dude, I got no answer for you....

ETA: I know the FBI has an age requirement... do the rest? Have you looked into that? Also, you don't need a law degree to go to the FBI...

bluepenguin · Post by **bluepenguin** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:07 pm

Fair enough. If you want to be a lawyer or have the best prospects of meaningful(/any) employment, you have to understand this is not your best play. If you're up against the clock, though, and willing to take a risk, nail that LSAT and make this as cheap as possible.

Is your CG experience relevant at all, though? You don't *need* a law degree for federal law enforcement. I mean, I'm not too tuned in to that side of things but I'd think something like a criminology degree might help you more and be done with faster.

rvadog · Post by **rvadog** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:08 pm

North wrote:The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Florida Coastal won't do you any favors.

10pts of veterans preference does wonders!

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:09 pm

rvadog wrote:
North wrote:The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Florida Coastal won't do you any favors.
10pts of veterans preference does wonders!

Um. You'll be competing against veterans who went to Harvard and Columbia Bro.

North · Post by **North** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:11 pm

spleenworship wrote:
rvadog wrote:
North wrote:The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Florida Coastal won't do you any favors.
10pts of veterans preference does wonders!

Um. You'll be competing against veterans who went to Harvard and Columbia Bro.

And they'll beat you out every time. Sorry dude.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:13 pm

What's your backup plan for the likely event you don't get the ONE specific job you want?

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:14 pm

rad lulz wrote:What's your backup plan for the likely event you don't get the ONE specific job you want?

I'll put $20 down that even if he has one, it isn't realistic.

Edited post re-read

rvadog · Post by **rvadog** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:15 pm

bluepenguin wrote:Is your CG experience relevant at all, though? You don't *need* a law degree for federal law enforcement. I mean, I'm not too tuned in to that side of things but I'd think something like a criminology degree might help you more and be done with faster.

Here's my thought process:
Law school will be free with MGIB
Work is pretty forgiving with time so it's a good setup for PT law
It's possible I could take some leave during the summer to work
I leave the CG with a law degree and ready to enter the world
If I can't get a a federal or local LE job right away I can work in defense or public interest with no stress of law school debt

BlueJeanBaby · Post by **BlueJeanBaby** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:16 pm

rvadog wrote:
North wrote:The FBI Law Entry is by far the most competitive and over-saturated path to becoming an SA. A JD from Florida Coastal won't do you any favors.
10pts of veterans preference does wonders!

I was using that 10point just-moved military wife preference AND got an over 100% qualification on every single job I applied too and didn't land a single job with the government. Crazy competitive out there!

rvadog · Post by **rvadog** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:18 pm

spleenworship wrote:
rad lulz wrote:What's your backup plan for the likely event you don't get the ONE specific job you want?

I'll put $20 down that even if he has one, it isn't realistic.

I would encourage you to work on reading comprehension.

I have stated before I will not pay for law school. If the school doesn't offer yellow ribbon program then I'll do something else. But they almost all (even Coastal) offer yellow ribbon.

I'm not worried about not getting a job. I have zero problem working a beat as a local cop.

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:18 pm

rvadog wrote:
bluepenguin wrote:Is your CG experience relevant at all, though? You don't *need* a law degree for federal law enforcement. I mean, I'm not too tuned in to that side of things but I'd think something like a criminology degree might help you more and be done with faster.
Here's my thought process:
Law school will be free with MGIB
Work is pretty forgiving with time so it's a good setup for PT law
It's possible I could take some leave during the summer to work
I leave the CG with a law degree and ready to enter the world
If I can't get a a federal or local LE job right away I can work in defense or public interest with no stress of law school debt

Bolded: If you can get a job graduating from those schools bro. Florida Coastal had less than a third of their grads in actual lawyer jobs 9 months after graduation.

Italicized: If your superiors will let you

spleenworship · Post by **spleenworship** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:20 pm

rvadog wrote:
I would encourage you to work on reading comprehension.

I have stated before I will not pay for law school. If the school doesn't offer yellow ribbon program then I'll do something else. But they almost all (even Coastal) offer yellow ribbon.

I'm not worried about not getting a job. I have zero problem working a beat as a local cop.

then why go to law school? It would be a waste of time.

Also, I already edited it. Don't be a prick, I'm actually in law school. I don't have problems with RC, I do have problems with time to read posts from someone about to make a huge mistake.

rvadog · Post by **rvadog** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:22 pm

I don't have to worry about my superiors. My enlistment will be up same time I finished with law.

I would encourage you guys to keep in mind this isn't the usual "2.5 gpa, 151 lsat, should I go to cooley" thread. I will not have any debt.

T14 is not an option at any point for me because I was an idiot when I first went to college and have a sub 3.0 gpa.

North · Post by **North** » Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:24 pm

Alright, this is starting to lose its focus.

OP: You can become a LEO without a law degree. That's clearly what you want to do, so pursue it. If, after your enlistment period ends, it doesn't work out or you don't like the work, THEN you should consider attending law school with your GI bill. That would allow you to go to a law school that would give you a good chance at actually becoming a lawyer (read: not Florida Coastal).

Florida Coastal and Louisville are a waste of your time and the taxpayer's money, and you don't even need the degree.

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