Law School with General Discharge

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jebb121
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Law School with General Discharge

Postby jebb121 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:29 pm

I am applying to law school with pretty good scores but I am going to receive a general discharge from the Army in 2-3 months. It is not happened yet but when it does I know I have to send an addendum saying that my status has changed. I was wondering if a general discharge for peeing hot for weed hurts my chances a lot? I am applying to Cornell and Georgetown and pretty confident that I will be accepted but again worried about my discharge and how it will effect my chances. Thanks for the responses.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby ScottRiqui » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:35 pm

Well, the official term for the discharge is "General Under Honorable Conditions", so I'd make sure you spell it out at least once so they know it's not really that bad. It's an administrative discharge, not a punitive one, so I don't think it'll be the end of the world, application-wise.

The bad thing is that your GI Bill is now gone, so that positive piss test might have just cost you as much as $200k.

jebb121
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby jebb121 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:45 pm

I understand that I won't have the benefits I had I am just hoping that it does not destroy my chances of being accepted. I have no idea how much this will affect my application and from talking with military personnel they make it sound like I am doomed.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby ScottRiqui » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:51 pm

jebb121 wrote:I understand that I won't have the benefits I had I am just hoping that it does not destroy my chances of being accepted. I have no idea how much this will affect my application and from talking with military personnel they make it sound like I am doomed.


If you have a problem, it'll be from the marijuana use itself, rather than simply the characterization of discharge. In that sense, you're lucky that you're getting a General discharge, rather than an "Other than Honorable" discharge. You'll find that many job applications ask if you've ever received an OTH, and you can still answer "no" to that.

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Ramius
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby Ramius » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:57 pm

I'm pretty certain it'll be a "General Under Other Than Honorable Conditions," so while most won't know the specifics of this type of discharge, a complete discussion on the matter will help ADCOMs decide whether they deem it a significant offense.

I wouldn't sweat it too much in law school admissions. If you're a strong candidate, they'll want to have you. Your performance in the military won't help you like it might otherwise though based on the fact that you're washing out unceremoniously.

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Ramius
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby Ramius » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:58 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
jebb121 wrote:I understand that I won't have the benefits I had I am just hoping that it does not destroy my chances of being accepted. I have no idea how much this will affect my application and from talking with military personnel they make it sound like I am doomed.


If you have a problem, it'll be from the marijuana use itself, rather than simply the characterization of discharge. In that sense, you're lucky that you're getting a General discharge, rather than an "Other than Honorable" discharge. You'll find that many job applications ask if you've ever received an OTH, and you can still answer "no" to that.


It just occurred to me, are they talking about a true General or and OTH?

Way different circumstances if your command is going light on you with a General.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby ScottRiqui » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:06 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:I'm pretty certain it'll be a "General Under Other Than Honorable Conditions," so while most won't know the specifics of this type of discharge, a complete discussion on the matter will help ADCOMs decide whether they deem it a significant offense.


That's not a characterization of discharge. The only choices are "Honorable", "General Under Honorable Conditions", "Other than Honorable", Bad Conduct" and "Dishonorable". The first three are administrative, the last two are punitive.

There's also an "Entry Level Separation" discharge, but that's only for people with less than 180 days' active service, and it's not a "characterization" of discharge.

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Ramius
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby Ramius » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:07 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:Well, the official term for the discharge is "General Under Honorable Conditions", so I'd make sure you spell it out at least once so they know it's not really that bad. It's an administrative discharge, not a punitive one, so I don't think it'll be the end of the world, application-wise.

The bad thing is that your GI Bill is now gone, so that positive piss test might have just cost you as much as $200k.


Egg. On. My. Face.

jebb121
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby jebb121 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:09 pm

Not sure yet. I have said that I will waive all my rights and let it go through if they give me a general but again it could be an OTH. Law schools ask if you have ever been discharged OTH. I thought general fell under that category. If it does not than hopefully I really do only receive a general and do not have to disclose that I didn't receive an honorable discharge. This also came about in a hard time in my life: I had a close family member dying who died slightly before I peed hot, drank too much and made the mistake of smoking weed a couple of times while drunk. I am completely abstinent now but not sure if that even matters at this point.

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Ramius
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby Ramius » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:14 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:I'm pretty certain it'll be a "General Under Other Than Honorable Conditions," so while most won't know the specifics of this type of discharge, a complete discussion on the matter will help ADCOMs decide whether they deem it a significant offense.


That's not a characterization of discharge. The only choices are "Honorable", "General Under Honorable Conditions", "Other than Honorable", Bad Conduct" and "Dishonorable". The first three are administrative, the last two are punitive.

There's also an "Entry Level Separation" discharge, but that's only for people with less than 180 days' active service, and it's not a "characterization" of discharge.


You're absolutely right and I fell prey to skimming, making a stupid statement, and realizing way too late that I was so far off-base that I should be embarrassed. Kudos to you for reading, analyzing and correctly responding to the post.

I failed miserably in this post and I hope you will forgive me.

#1 sign you shouldn't go to law school: incorrectly reading an internet post and incorrectly applying what it said based on your own knowledge. I'm F'ed.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby ScottRiqui » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:25 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
matthewsean85 wrote:I'm pretty certain it'll be a "General Under Other Than Honorable Conditions," so while most won't know the specifics of this type of discharge, a complete discussion on the matter will help ADCOMs decide whether they deem it a significant offense.


That's not a characterization of discharge. The only choices are "Honorable", "General Under Honorable Conditions", "Other than Honorable", Bad Conduct" and "Dishonorable". The first three are administrative, the last two are punitive.

There's also an "Entry Level Separation" discharge, but that's only for people with less than 180 days' active service, and it's not a "characterization" of discharge.


You're absolutely right and I fell prey to skimming, making a stupid statement, and realizing way too late that I was so far off-base that I should be embarrassed. Kudos to you for reading, analyzing and correctly responding to the post.

I failed miserably in this post and I hope you will forgive me.

#1 sign you shouldn't go to law school: incorrectly reading an internet post and incorrectly applying what it said based on your own knowledge. I'm F'ed.


It happens - I did it yesterday myself. :lol:

The the OP: If they're giving you the option of waiving the administrative board and taking the General discharge, jump on it - they're doing you a favor. A positive urinalysis is usually a one-way trip to an admin board and an OTH. And if you get confused when filling out applications, just remember that "General" is short for "General Under Honorable Conditions", so you haven't been discharged under "other than honorable" conditions.

jebb121
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby jebb121 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:28 pm

Excellent. Well thanks for the responses. Say I end up getting an OTH, how bad will that affect me?

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby ScottRiqui » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:33 pm

jebb121 wrote:Excellent. Well thanks for the responses. Say I end up getting an OTH, how bad will that affect me?


Well, it's still only an administrative discharge and not a punitive one, so it's not as bad for your record as a criminal conviction would be. But as you've already found out, a lot of schools/employers will want to know about an OTH. I can't say how it will affect a school's admission decision, though.

jebb121
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby jebb121 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:36 pm

ScottRiqui wrote:
jebb121 wrote:Excellent. Well thanks for the responses. Say I end up getting an OTH, how bad will that affect me?


Well, it's still only an administrative discharge and not a punitive one, so it's not as bad for your record as a criminal conviction would be. But as you've already found out, a lot of schools/employers will want to know about an OTH. I can't say how it will affect a school's admission decision, though.

Fair enough. Thank you for the help.

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Zoomie
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby Zoomie » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:14 pm

A general discharge is not great. I think after a certain amount of time you can request to "upgrade" your type of discharge. I've wrote discharge packages and it's all in how your command wants to discharge you. Was this your only screw up?

Write an addendum for sure. Explain what your discharge was for. I'm trying to think, I don't think any of my applications asked me what type of discharge I had....of course I'm still on active duty now though.

jebb121
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby jebb121 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:28 am

Zoomie wrote:A general discharge is not great. I think after a certain amount of time you can request to "upgrade" your type of discharge. I've wrote discharge packages and it's all in how your command wants to discharge you. Was this your only screw up?

Write an addendum for sure. Explain what your discharge was for. I'm trying to think, I don't think any of my applications asked me what type of discharge I had....of course I'm still on active duty now though.

This was my only screw up. They gave me the option of staying in and being demoted or being booted out and I picked to be kicked out. I hope they won't be too harsh on the punishment but who knows.

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Zoomie
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby Zoomie » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:57 am

Yes, I'm fairly sure that if you have a bad conduct or dishonorable discharge that you are able to request to upgrade it. Doubtful they will give you one of those for your situation. In the Air Force you don't get a choice. They just put you out.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:08 am

Zoomie wrote:Yes, I'm fairly sure that if you have a bad conduct or dishonorable discharge that you are able to request to upgrade it. Doubtful they will give you one of those for your situation. In the Air Force you don't get a choice. They just put you out.


It is possible to get an OTH or a General upgraded via a review board process, but it's neither easy nor automatic. You have to show that the characterization of discharge was either "inequitable" or "improper". If you're only getting a General discharge for a positive urinalysis, you're already getting kissed; don't expect to push your luck and get the bj as well.

Bad Conduct Discharges and Dishonorable Discharges are harder (read: almost impossible) to have upgraded, because they're punitive discharges rather than administrative ones. You can only get a BCD or a DD as the result of a courts-martial, so generally you need more than an administrative review board to upgrade them.

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Zoomie
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby Zoomie » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:32 pm

Zoomie wrote:Yes, I'm fairly sure that if you have a bad conduct or dishonorable discharge that you are NOT able to request to upgrade it. Doubtful they will give you one of those for your situation. In the Air Force you don't get a choice. They just put you out.



I'm not sure how I left the word NOT out. My stepsister is a retard and got out in Navy bootcamp with a General OTH and wanted to upgrade it because she thought it was dishonorable. I remember her talking about it and asking for my help as a recruiter....yea no.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:43 pm

Zoomie wrote:
Zoomie wrote:Yes, I'm fairly sure that if you have a bad conduct or dishonorable discharge that you are NOT able to request to upgrade it. Doubtful they will give you one of those for your situation. In the Air Force you don't get a choice. They just put you out.



I'm not sure how I left the word NOT out. My stepsister is a retard and got out in Navy bootcamp with a General OTH and wanted to upgrade it because she thought it was dishonorable. I remember her talking about it and asking for my help as a recruiter....yea no.


Well, it was either a "General" or an "OTH", but it can't be both. Frankly, if all this happened while she was still in Boot Camp, I'm surprised she didn't just get an ELS (Entry-Level Separation). That's what the ELS is for - kicking out people who just can't adjust to military life and make it obvious early on.

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Zoomie
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby Zoomie » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:25 pm

You have me wondering. I'm going to see if I can dig up her 214. There is a narrative on it.

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Zoomie
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby Zoomie » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:39 pm

Yes, apparently I don't know what I'm talking about. It's an entry level separation with an ineligible reenlistment code. With this: Convenience of the Govt due to physical or mental conditions as evidenced by a obsessive- compulsive and Generalized anxiety disorder and anorexia nervosa.

Told you she was a loon.

Anyway, back to the OP. You will for sure want an addendum. As far as if it is a black mark or not depends on the school. Some of the schools I applied to wanted a statement for a speeding ticket, others only brushed over law violations. You could just move to Colorado or Washington where it's no big deal. :-)
Last edited by Zoomie on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby SemperLegal » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:46 pm

.
Last edited by SemperLegal on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jebb121
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby jebb121 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:56 pm

deleted.
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SemperLegal
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Re: Law School with General Discharge

Postby SemperLegal » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:14 pm

Please unquote my text. I plan to delete it.

There should be legal services at a nearby base. PM me if you have questions




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