New student loan bill pending in Congress

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buddyt
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby buddyt » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:28 pm

sadsituationJD wrote:Furthermore, every indication is that the jobs market/wages is getting worse, not better. It will continue to get worse because America is a country on the decline. Our best days are, sadly, behind us. This is the first generation since WWII that will see a markedly lower standard of living than their parents. The real place to address the student loan issue is on the front end, with salary caps for profs and admins at schools which accept federal money, as well as requiring proof of certain salary/employment metrics & outcomes to be eligible to receive federal $$$.


Why not eliminate government-backed student loans? If I'm a bank, there's not a chance I'm loaning someone $200k to go to Charlotte School of Law. Banks won't make these loans, these schools won't get enrollees, and they will be forced to reduce tuition/class size/salaries until they are forced to close up shop altogether.

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dingbat
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:38 pm

buddytyler wrote:Why not eliminate government-backed student loans? If I'm a bank, there's not a chance I'm loaning someone $200k to go to Charlotte School of Law. Banks won't make these loans, these schools won't get enrollees, and they will be forced to reduce tuition/class size/salaries until they are forced to close up shop altogether.

Because then only rich people will be able to go to college

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buddyt
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby buddyt » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:43 pm

dingbat wrote:Because then only rich people will be able to go to college


Why would a bank care whether you are rich or not when determining if you qualify for a student loan? It seems they would care mostly about employment prospects.

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WhiteyCakes
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby WhiteyCakes » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:45 pm

buddytyler wrote:
dingbat wrote:Because then only rich people will be able to go to college


Why would a bank care whether you are rich or not when determining if you qualify for a student loan? It seems they would care mostly about employment prospects.


Seriously? :roll:

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Mr Cooper
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby Mr Cooper » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:46 pm

dingbat wrote:
buddytyler wrote:Why not eliminate government-backed student loans? If I'm a bank, there's not a chance I'm loaning someone $200k to go to Charlotte School of Law. Banks won't make these loans, these schools won't get enrollees, and they will be forced to reduce tuition/class size/salaries until they are forced to close up shop altogether.

Because then only rich people will be able to go to college


Like buddytyler mentioned, if loans of that magnitude aren't issued, then less people will be able to pay for a school's overpriced tuition. If less people are paying and enrolling, schools will either have to lower tuition or close. If they lower tuition, then it will be more affordable for everyone.

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buddyt
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby buddyt » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:48 pm

WhiteyCakes wrote:
buddytyler wrote:
dingbat wrote:Because then only rich people will be able to go to college


Why would a bank care whether you are rich or not when determining if you qualify for a student loan? It seems they would care mostly about employment prospects.


Seriously? :roll:


Yes, seriously.

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rinkrat19
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:50 pm

buddytyler wrote:
WhiteyCakes wrote:
buddytyler wrote:
dingbat wrote:Because then only rich people will be able to go to college


Why would a bank care whether you are rich or not when determining if you qualify for a student loan? It seems they would care mostly about employment prospects.


Seriously? :roll:


Yes, seriously.
Why would a rich person need a loan?

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dingbat
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:52 pm

buddytyler wrote:
dingbat wrote:Because then only rich people will be able to go to college


Why would a bank care whether you are rich or not when determining if you qualify for a student loan? It seems they would care mostly about employment prospects.

Collateral - a bank shouldn't have to guess A) if you even graduate, B) if you will get a job, or C) if your job will be sufficient to pay back the loan
I assume banks would require a co-signer for any loan

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dingbat
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:53 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:Why would a rich person need a loan?

A) Being rich and having cash are two separate things
B) children take out the loans, parents sign off on them

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spleenworship
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby spleenworship » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:54 pm

buddytyler wrote:
WhiteyCakes wrote:
buddytyler wrote:
dingbat wrote:Because then only rich people will be able to go to college


Why would a bank care whether you are rich or not when determining if you qualify for a student loan? It seems they would care mostly about employment prospects.


Seriously? :roll:


Yes, seriously.


Credit scores.

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dingbat
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:55 pm

Mr Cooper wrote:Like buddytyler mentioned, if loans of that magnitude aren't issued, then less people will be able to pay for a school's overpriced tuition. If less people are paying and enrolling, schools will either have to lower tuition or close. If they lower tuition, then it will be more affordable for everyone.
Prior to the second world war, there were practically no student loans. There were almost no poor students either.

a poor person will not be able to pay any tuition, they'd need to work to put food in their mouths.

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Icculus
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby Icculus » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:00 pm

dingbat wrote:
Mr Cooper wrote:Like buddytyler mentioned, if loans of that magnitude aren't issued, then less people will be able to pay for a school's overpriced tuition. If less people are paying and enrolling, schools will either have to lower tuition or close. If they lower tuition, then it will be more affordable for everyone.
Prior to the second world war, there were practically no student loans. There were almost no poor students either.

a poor person will not be able to pay any tuition, they'd need to work to put food in their mouths.


Well there were also more commter schools. A place like BC started out as a city school for commuters and back in the 40s and 50s was affordable. There are also till CC that are affordable and allow people to attend class and work. The ease of getting student loans is the number one reason tuition has risen like it has. That, combined with the fact that everyone is told they should go to college (which I disagree with, some people are not best served by a college education) has led us to this student loan mess.

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dingbat
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:01 pm

Icculus wrote:The ease of getting student loans is the number one reason tuition has risen like it has. That, combined with the fact that everyone is told they should go to college (which I disagree with, some people are not best served by a college education) has led us to this student loan mess.

perfect

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buddyt
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby buddyt » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:05 pm

dingbat wrote:
buddytyler wrote:
dingbat wrote:Because then only rich people will be able to go to college


Why would a bank care whether you are rich or not when determining if you qualify for a student loan? It seems they would care mostly about employment prospects.

Collateral - a bank shouldn't have to guess A) if you even graduate, B) if you will get a job, or C) if your job will be sufficient to pay back the loan
I assume banks would require a co-signer for any loan


Why shouldn't a bank have to guess those things? Someone who does well in high school would have no problem getting a bank to loan them money to get a BSEE. Someone who does well in undergrad and gets 175+ on the LSAT would have no problem getting a bank to loan them money to get a JD from Harvard. On the other hand, a person most definitely should have a problem getting someone to loan them money for an MA in Philosophy from University of Wyoming. Job and income statistics are indispensable variables in those calculations.

On the issue of collateral, it's true that there is none for a student loan. Then keep them non-dischargeable. Or go ahead and forgive them after 25-30 years, it doesn't really matter. No bank will make a foolish loan if they're going to have a huge write-off at the end of it.

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spleenworship
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby spleenworship » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:08 pm

buddytyler wrote:No bank will make a foolish loan if they're going to have a huge write-off at the end of it.



but see the mortgage bubble v. us poor bastards

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rinkrat19
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:11 pm

Icculus wrote:
dingbat wrote:
Mr Cooper wrote:Like buddytyler mentioned, if loans of that magnitude aren't issued, then less people will be able to pay for a school's overpriced tuition. If less people are paying and enrolling, schools will either have to lower tuition or close. If they lower tuition, then it will be more affordable for everyone.
Prior to the second world war, there were practically no student loans. There were almost no poor students either.

a poor person will not be able to pay any tuition, they'd need to work to put food in their mouths.


Well there were also more commter schools. A place like BC started out as a city school for commuters and back in the 40s and 50s was affordable. There are also till CC that are affordable and allow people to attend class and work. The ease of getting student loans is the number one reason tuition has risen like it has. That, combined with the fact that everyone is told they should go to college (which I disagree with, some people are not best served by a college education) has led us to this student loan mess.
This is the single best argument I've seen for merit-based socialized education. Make education and training free, but place everyone by merit. Train everyone to work at the level to which they're best suited, and take away the social stigma of apprenticeships and vocational schools. There needs to be some mechanism for jumping between educational tracks (forever banning a late-bloomer from university based on a test when he's 12 could cost society an Einstein), but overall I think Germany has a pretty good system.

The message shouldn't be "everyone can go to college," it should be "No one who deserves to go to college should be discouraged by cost."

OfferSecured
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby OfferSecured » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:14 pm

Mr Cooper wrote:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-04/student-loan-collection-targeted-for-overhaul-in-congress.html

-IBR gone
-No forgiveness at 20/25 year mark (or for public service)
-% based payment comes directly out of your paycheck, like taxes
-Total interest capped at 50% of face value of loans at graduation. (i.e. 100k of loans can only have 50k interest)
-Only applies to new loans
-Paid for by eliminating loan subsidies and forgiveness;
-Interest on loans is tied to treasury rate

Bad news for anyone planning on taking out a ton of loans to go into a low paying legal field. Also means lifetime servitude for those who can't pay of their loans. On the other side, interest is capped so people won't be getting as killed on interest. Will be interesting to see if it gets passed.



about Goddamn time. I am sick of these losers taking out huge loans to go to shit schools. NOT EVERYONE deserves a right to an education. Some people need to learn a trade. World ain't fair, if you are a dumbass you are a dumbass.

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rinkrat19
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:18 pm

OfferSecured wrote:
Mr Cooper wrote:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-04/student-loan-collection-targeted-for-overhaul-in-congress.html

-IBR gone
-No forgiveness at 20/25 year mark (or for public service)
-% based payment comes directly out of your paycheck, like taxes
-Total interest capped at 50% of face value of loans at graduation. (i.e. 100k of loans can only have 50k interest)
-Only applies to new loans
-Paid for by eliminating loan subsidies and forgiveness;
-Interest on loans is tied to treasury rate

Bad news for anyone planning on taking out a ton of loans to go into a low paying legal field. Also means lifetime servitude for those who can't pay of their loans. On the other side, interest is capped so people won't be getting as killed on interest. Will be interesting to see if it gets passed.



about Goddamn time. I am sick of these losers taking out huge loans to go to shit schools. NOT EVERYONE deserves a right to an education. Some people need to learn a trade. World ain't fair, if you are a dumbass you are a dumbass.
And fuck that working- or middle-class person attending an excellent school with dreams of working for a non-profit or government agency. Only rich kids get to work low-paying jobs!

You are an idiot.

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dingbat
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby dingbat » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:21 pm

rinkrat19 wrote: Make education and training free

damn commie.

That being said, I agree with your point
spleenworship wrote:
buddytyler wrote:No bank will make a foolish loan if they're going to have a huge write-off at the end of it.



but see the mortgage bubble v. us poor bastards
1) most mortgages were backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S.
2) The banks weren't the ones who were holding the debt
3) there are some additional points that differentiate which are quite complex and will derail this thread

OfferSecured
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby OfferSecured » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:21 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
OfferSecured wrote:
Mr Cooper wrote:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-04/student-loan-collection-targeted-for-overhaul-in-congress.html

-IBR gone
-No forgiveness at 20/25 year mark (or for public service)
-% based payment comes directly out of your paycheck, like taxes
-Total interest capped at 50% of face value of loans at graduation. (i.e. 100k of loans can only have 50k interest)
-Only applies to new loans
-Paid for by eliminating loan subsidies and forgiveness;
-Interest on loans is tied to treasury rate

Bad news for anyone planning on taking out a ton of loans to go into a low paying legal field. Also means lifetime servitude for those who can't pay of their loans. On the other side, interest is capped so people won't be getting as killed on interest. Will be interesting to see if it gets passed.



about Goddamn time. I am sick of these losers taking out huge loans to go to shit schools. NOT EVERYONE deserves a right to an education. Some people need to learn a trade. World ain't fair, if you are a dumbass you are a dumbass.
And fuck that working- or middle-class person attending an excellent school with dreams of working for a non-profit or government agency. Only rich kids get to work low-paying jobs!

You are an idiot.



Terrible inference on your part, guy. I am talking about kids who take out huge student loans to go to a overpriced private school to major in Fashion or something.

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rinkrat19
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:24 pm

OfferSecured wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
OfferSecured wrote:
Mr Cooper wrote:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-04/student-loan-collection-targeted-for-overhaul-in-congress.html

-IBR gone
-No forgiveness at 20/25 year mark (or for public service)
-% based payment comes directly out of your paycheck, like taxes
-Total interest capped at 50% of face value of loans at graduation. (i.e. 100k of loans can only have 50k interest)
-Only applies to new loans
-Paid for by eliminating loan subsidies and forgiveness;
-Interest on loans is tied to treasury rate

Bad news for anyone planning on taking out a ton of loans to go into a low paying legal field. Also means lifetime servitude for those who can't pay of their loans. On the other side, interest is capped so people won't be getting as killed on interest. Will be interesting to see if it gets passed.



about Goddamn time. I am sick of these losers taking out huge loans to go to shit schools. NOT EVERYONE deserves a right to an education. Some people need to learn a trade. World ain't fair, if you are a dumbass you are a dumbass.
And fuck that working- or middle-class person attending an excellent school with dreams of working for a non-profit or government agency. Only rich kids get to work low-paying jobs!

You are an idiot.



Terrible inference on your part, guy. I am talking about kids who take out huge student loans to go to a overpriced private school to major in Fashion or something.
Don't be disingenuous.

Eliminating LRAP and all the rest that this bill does would hurt the people I mentioned. To solve the specific issue that you mention, a better idea would be to require an evaluation of school quality/job prospects to qualify for a loan.

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spleenworship
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby spleenworship » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:25 pm

dingbat wrote:1) most mortgages were backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S.
2) The banks weren't the ones who were holding the debt
3) there are some additional points that differentiate which are quite complex and will derail this thread


I was not aware of these points. Touche, an go about your business.

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buddyt
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby buddyt » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:30 pm

dingbat wrote:1) most mortgages were backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S.


Were this not the case, the banks would have been much more prudent in to whom they gave mortgages, knowing that heads would roll in the event of huge write-offs.

OfferSecured
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby OfferSecured » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:30 pm

about Goddamn time. I am sick of these losers taking out huge loans to go to shit schools. NOT EVERYONE deserves a right to an education. Some people need to learn a trade. World ain't fair, if you are a dumbass you are a dumbass.[/quote]And fuck that working- or middle-class person attending an excellent school with dreams of working for a non-profit or government agency. Only rich kids get to work low-paying jobs!

You are an idiot.[/quote]


Terrible inference on your part, guy. I am talking about kids who take out huge student loans to go to a overpriced private school to major in Fashion or something.[/quote]Don't be disingenuous.

Eliminating LRAP and all the rest that this bill does would hurt the people I mentioned. To solve the specific issue that you mention, a better idea would be to require an evaluation of school quality/job prospects to qualify for a loan.[/quote]

Yes, and that is what should be done. I am personally sick of seeing Susan from Kansas City on CNN bitching about how she cannot pay her NYU UG loans back (250K+) because she cannot find a job. However, Susan got a degree in General Studies and went to Starbucks and cafe's and lived like she was an heiress and now holds a worthless degree. Kids like that do not deserve government money. I would be fully for a system where people who knew what the fuck is up looked at the applicants school quality and job prospects.

Also, to those who do not have the means to pay for an education without loans. A state school is nothing to turn your nose up to, you may not get to go to an Emory or Vanderbilt but you can still get a good education for a 1/8 of the price at your State School.

/rant

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rinkrat19
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Re: New student loan bill pending in Congress

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:32 pm

OfferSecured wrote:stupid stuff with incompetent quoting I'm too lazy to fix
So basically you're fine with punishing the innocent and worthy just because you're angry at humanities majors?

Plenty of people can't even afford a state school. Have you looked at the UC system tuition lately?

Graduate degrees are expensive, even at state schools. Should poor kids forever be limited to bachelor's degrees or 2-year CC certificates?

The best programs are frequently not at state schools. Why should only rich kids get to go to MIT and Harvard Law?
Last edited by rinkrat19 on Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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