Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

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Zoomie
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Zoomie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:02 pm

romothesavior wrote:1. Just because someone goes to law school doesn't mean they can't discourage other people from making the same mistake.

2. What is right for some people is not right for everyone. There may be valid reasons for one TLS poster to go to law school, or go to a particular law school, and yet those reasons may not apply to OP or to other TLS posters with different circumstances. For example, my college buddy just got into UVA Law with a full ride, and has also been considering Wash U. If I told him, "Go to UVA, don't go to Wash U," would you say, "But you go to Wash U! What a hyprocrite!" Of course not, because the situations are completely different. What we're trying to discern right now is why OP is so set on law school, why they want the degree in the first place, what they plan to use it for, etc. Circumstances matter.

3. And on a similar note... there is a world of difference between going to a lower tier school vs. going to a T15-20ish school with a massive scholarship.

TL;DR: Sorry, but your position is really ridiculous.


It's not the same logic as picking law schools. I only see law students discouraging the Know-It-All 0Ls to not go to law school. I get it. I don't understand why the OP wants to go to law school either, but how can anyone try to discourage her when we don't know what her reasons are. When did you all become experts on what is mistake for someone. A JD doesn't make a career coach out of someone. "You'll never get a job" "You're going to hate it" "You'll be in so much debt that you'll be on food stamps"... It's all absurd. The job markets are different geographically as well.
If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".

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BlaqBella
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby BlaqBella » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:13 pm

Zoomie wrote:When did you all become experts on what is mistake for someone.


Haven't you notice? Many TLSers love to hear themselves talk. The OP has yet to return to this thread to comment yet folks on TLS are going off the deep end, arguing with an already informed audience. They argue for arguing sake.


Zoomie wrote:If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".


+1 and that's not all current law students, just some...many of whom happen to be TLS members.

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Zoomie
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Zoomie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:13 pm

Chidinma89 wrote:Hey guys!

I am a 23 year old African American working woman who has a keen interest in going to law school.

My GPA is 2.6 is Finance :oops: :oops: :oops: . I know. I know. It's terrible.

I have been working in Production Finance for one of the top advertising agencies in the US for the past year, and I plan to work another year until I apply to law schools.

I am not looking to go to a top Law School. My choices thus far are:

1.) University of Nebraska-Lincoln
2.) Syracuse
3.) Loyola University (New Orleans)
4.) Howard University
5.) University of San Francisco


Question 1: What LSAT score do you think I need to get into these schools?
Question 2: Should I get a masters before I apply to Law school because of my low GPA?


ANY HELP would be fantastic.


Thanks!


Of course, I am not a seasoned law student like the pleasant individuals who have posted, but if you want to improve your GPA, my understanding is that law schools specifically look at undergrad. Your two years work experience will help, but you are also competing for admission with others who have the same qualifications. You will have to blow the LSAT out of the water or apply to a school within your reach. I would not apply to Loyola unless you specifically plan to practice law in Louisiana. While the do offer a common law track, Louisiana practices civil law which no other states does exclusively. The majority of Loyola grads end up in New Orleans. I think you stated that wasn't an option for you. However, if you are looking to go into public defense, they offer a loan forgiveness program for those that do. I think the money is divvied up yearly if you qualify.

If the job prospects were seriously that low then people would not be going to law school at all. There is an abundance of attorney types and in some markets it is tough to get a job. Look at where you want to live, how much debt you are willing to take on or can afford and what your reasons behind law school are. I would not go there thinking that you will be living the dream and driving a Maserati.

Now, that's just my two cents as someone who has not been to law school but I've researched, read the good and bad and met with local lawyers. The general consensus is it is a stressful job that may have the potential of a high salary but is unlikely to start off with.

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Zoomie
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Zoomie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:16 pm

BlaqBella wrote:
Zoomie wrote:When did you all become experts on what is mistake for someone.


Haven't you notice? Many TLSers love to hear themselves talk. The OP has yet to return to this thread to comment yet folks on TLS are going off the deep end, arguing with an already informed audience. They argue for arguing sake.


Zoomie wrote:If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".


+1 and that's not all current law students, just some...many of whom happen to be TLS members.



Thanks....I'm glad not all TLSers are Negative Nancy's. :lol:

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:16 pm

Zoomie wrote:If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".

http://www.lstscorereports.com/

Peruse this

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:19 pm

Zoomie wrote:I would not go there thinking that you will be living the dream and driving a Maserati.

With Loyola's shitty employment stats I wouldn't even go there expecting a real legal job.

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romothesavior
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby romothesavior » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:35 pm

BlaqBella wrote:
Zoomie wrote:If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".


+1 and that's not all current law students, just some...many of whom happen to be TLS members.

No one here, to my knowledge (except maybe mtal), has ever discouraged "anyone from attending law school." But for most law school prospectives... yep, don't go is the best advice they're gonna get. Law school is expensive, not fun, and has terrible outcomes for the average grad in today's economy.

That isn't to say no one should go though. If OP has solid reasons for going to law school, goes to a reputable law school, and goes at a price point that is reasonable, I would have no hesitation in saying go for it.

But keep spouting your misinformed platitudes Zoomie.

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Zoomie
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Zoomie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:36 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Zoomie wrote:If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".

http://www.lstscorereports.com/

Peruse this


Why are you going to law school? I'm not being a smart ass. I am truly interested considering the advice you give.

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:44 pm

Zoomie wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Zoomie wrote:If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".

http://www.lstscorereports.com/

Peruse this


Why are you going to law school? I'm not being a smart ass. I am truly interested considering the advice you give.

My reasons for going to law school don't have any bearing on the truth of the stats I just posted.

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby romothesavior » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:46 pm

Zoomie wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Zoomie wrote:If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".

http://www.lstscorereports.com/

Peruse this


Why are you going to law school? I'm not being a smart ass. I am truly interested considering the advice you give.

Rad has a solid scholarship to a very solid school in the region he wants to practice in. He has a demonstrable interest in practicing law and from everything I've seen in him, he'd make a fine lawyer. He did his homework coming into law school, knows what practicing law is actually like thanks to his background, and has some very strong family ties to the profession.

That's why Rad is in law school (and myself, and many people on TLS). Unfortunately, there are a lot of 0Ls who don't fit this description at all, and go to the wrong law schools for the wrong reasons with the wrong information. Do you really not see a difference here?

I have no idea what the OP's story is, which is why I asked multiple times for his/her reasons for attending school. Based on some of the things the OP said, and the schools they are looking at, I'm pretty sure law school is not for them, but since the OP has dipped out, I guess we'll never know.

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Zoomie
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Zoomie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:47 pm

romothesavior wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:
Zoomie wrote:If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".


+1 and that's not all current law students, just some...many of whom happen to be TLS members.

No one here, to my knowledge (except maybe mtal), has ever discouraged "anyone from attending law school." But for most law school prospectives... yep, don't go is the best advice they're gonna get. Law school is expensive, not fun, and has terrible outcomes for the average grad in today's economy.

That isn't to say no one should go though. If OP has solid reasons for going to law school, goes to a reputable law school, and goes at a price point that is reasonable, I would have no hesitation in saying go for it.

But keep spouting your misinformed platitudes Zoomie.


Tell me who has a great outcome in today's economy? If not law school, then what? I'm not misinformed. I fully understand the potential implications of going to law school. I don't plan on racking up $150k of debt though.

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:49 pm


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Zoomie
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Zoomie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:53 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Zoomie wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Zoomie wrote:If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".

http://www.lstscorereports.com/

Peruse this


Why are you going to law school? I'm not being a smart ass. I am truly interested considering the advice you give.

My reasons for going to law school don't have any bearing on the truth of the stats I just posted.



I'm not debating the stats. I found them interesting and I can see where you are coming from when discussing job prospects. It does not change my opinion of discouraging 0Ls to attend. It doesn't matter to me. I know what I want, where I want to go and where I want to practice. I also have a way to pay for it where I won't get myself into a ridiculous amount, if any, debt.

I appreciate you presenting the facts. That's all I ask. The rest of the fluff and crap about you'll never get a job is a waste of time. But like romothesavior said, we will never why the OP wants to go. I agree that individuals should not choose law school with the wrong expectations of salaries and job prospects, houses on hillsides. I just don't understand why everyone is so damn negative. Realist or not, only see negative and that's all you will find.

I think we've beat the dead horse.

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Rahviveh » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:57 pm

Zoomie wrote:
I'm not debating the stats. I found them interesting and I can see where you are coming from when discussing job prospects. It does not change my opinion of discouraging 0Ls to attend. It doesn't matter to me. I know what I want, where I want to go and where I want to practice. I also have a way to pay for it where I won't get myself into a ridiculous amount, if any, debt.

I appreciate you presenting the facts. That's all I ask. The rest of the fluff and crap about you'll never get a job is a waste of time. But like romothesavior said, we will never why the OP wants to go. I agree that individuals should not choose law school with the wrong expectations of salaries and job prospects, houses on hillsides. I just don't understand why everyone is so damn negative. Realist or not, only see negative and that's all you will find.

I think we've beat the dead horse.


How can you look at those stats and not be negative?

Do you look at them and get butterflies in your stomach?

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:59 pm

Zoomie wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
BlaqBella wrote:
Zoomie wrote:If someone can explain to me why current law students discourage anyone else from attending law school then I will stand corrected. Advice is great, but no one really seems to give it unless it's "Don't go to Law School".


+1 and that's not all current law students, just some...many of whom happen to be TLS members.

No one here, to my knowledge (except maybe mtal), has ever discouraged "anyone from attending law school." But for most law school prospectives... yep, don't go is the best advice they're gonna get. Law school is expensive, not fun, and has terrible outcomes for the average grad in today's economy.

That isn't to say no one should go though. If OP has solid reasons for going to law school, goes to a reputable law school, and goes at a price point that is reasonable, I would have no hesitation in saying go for it.

But keep spouting your misinformed platitudes Zoomie.


Tell me who has a great outcome in today's economy? If not law school, then what? I'm not misinformed. I fully understand the potential implications of going to law school. I don't plan on racking up $150k of debt though.


I typed something lengthy, then somehow lost it, so I'll just leave this:

Come on, man.


Edited to delete random chunk of my old post that remained. See what else law school does?! YOU LOSE ALL YOUR USEFUL ABILITIES!

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:04 pm

Zoomie wrote:Realist or not, only see negative and that's all you will find.


bUt WuT iF tHeRe Is OnLy NeGaTiVe In FrOnT oF yOuR eYeS?!?!

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Zoomie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:10 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
I typed something lengthy, then somehow lost it, so I'll just leave this:

Come on, man.
You are aware that even assuming you don't end up with any debt whatsoever, you still have to give up three years of your life and all of your income during those years right? And for most JD's, that gets you about a 50-50 shot at some


I am not looking at it like that. I think if it was a bad career choice, people wouldn't go to law school. It wouldn't be an inundated career. It wouldn't be as competitive as it is. Now, those are not my reasons for wanting to go to law school. I've done my research. I understand what I am sacrificing. Do you think my reasons for going to law school are not as good as yours? Let's be real. None of us are so special that we really believe we are the only ones cut out for law. Ha, of course, I think some people truly believe in a pipe dream. I'll take my chances. I have a fall back plan. Remember, I have a Bachelor's degree and work experience. Plus we are moving into a more socialist society, those of you that are Biglaw partners making a nice salary can pay taxes so those of unemployed JDs can mooch off the system. :wink:

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Zoomie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:11 pm

ChampagnePapi wrote:
Zoomie wrote:
I'm not debating the stats. I found them interesting and I can see where you are coming from when discussing job prospects. It does not change my opinion of discouraging 0Ls to attend. It doesn't matter to me. I know what I want, where I want to go and where I want to practice. I also have a way to pay for it where I won't get myself into a ridiculous amount, if any, debt.

I appreciate you presenting the facts. That's all I ask. The rest of the fluff and crap about you'll never get a job is a waste of time. But like romothesavior said, we will never why the OP wants to go. I agree that individuals should not choose law school with the wrong expectations of salaries and job prospects, houses on hillsides. I just don't understand why everyone is so damn negative. Realist or not, only see negative and that's all you will find.

I think we've beat the dead horse.


How can you look at those stats and not be negative?

Do you look at them and get butterflies in your stomach?



nah, it's a bit of a gut check. Doesn't change my mind though.

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:18 pm

Zoomie wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
I typed something lengthy, then somehow lost it, so I'll just leave this:

Come on, man.
You are aware that even assuming you don't end up with any debt whatsoever, you still have to give up three years of your life and all of your income during those years right? And for most JD's, that gets you about a 50-50 shot at some


I am not looking at it like that. I think if it was a bad career choice, people wouldn't go to law school. It wouldn't be an inundated career. It wouldn't be as competitive as it is. Now, those are not my reasons for wanting to go to law school. I've done my research. I understand what I am sacrificing. Do you think my reasons for going to law school are not as good as yours? Let's be real. None of us are so special that we really believe we are the only ones cut out for law. Ha, of course, I think some people truly believe in a pipe dream. I'll take my chances. I have a fall back plan. Remember, I have a Bachelor's degree and work experience. Plus we are moving into a more socialist society, those of you that are Biglaw partners making a nice salary can pay taxes so those of unemployed JDs can mooch off the system. :wink:


Well, frankly, I don't think my reasons were very good in retrospect, although I did think they were at the time. And I'm really not sure that I'm cut out for law at all (still, after graduating and finding one of those magical unicorn "job" things). So there's that I guess.

I do want to call you out on that second sentence a little bit though. People go to law school for a lot of stupid reasons.

Also, the underlined portion of your post is key. Law school is a big gamble, and luck plays a big role in how things turn out. So if you get that, and understand the odds, you're ahead of the game.

Anyway, I don't know exactly what I was responding to there, but I'm tired and had to go to the DMV today so everything is entertaining now.

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby rad lulz » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:33 pm

I think if it was a bad career choice, people wouldn't go to law school. It wouldn't be an inundated career.

You missed the part where before LST and David Segal's NYT articles law schools actively doctored and obfuscated poor employment statistics for YEARS. And got away with it.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:39 pm

rad lulz wrote:
I think if it was a bad career choice, people wouldn't go to law school. It wouldn't be an inundated career.

You missed the part where before LST and David Segal's NYT articles law schools actively doctored and obfuscated poor employment statistics for YEARS. And got away with it.


Oh yeah, that thing!

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Zoomie
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Zoomie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:43 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
Zoomie wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
I typed something lengthy, then somehow lost it, so I'll just leave this:

Come on, man.
You are aware that even assuming you don't end up with any debt whatsoever, you still have to give up three years of your life and all of your income during those years right? And for most JD's, that gets you about a 50-50 shot at some


I am not looking at it like that. I think if it was a bad career choice, people wouldn't go to law school. It wouldn't be an inundated career. It wouldn't be as competitive as it is. Now, those are not my reasons for wanting to go to law school. I've done my research. I understand what I am sacrificing. Do you think my reasons for going to law school are not as good as yours? Let's be real. None of us are so special that we really believe we are the only ones cut out for law. Ha, of course, I think some people truly believe in a pipe dream. I'll take my chances. I have a fall back plan. Remember, I have a Bachelor's degree and work experience. Plus we are moving into a more socialist society, those of you that are Biglaw partners making a nice salary can pay taxes so those of unemployed JDs can mooch off the system. :wink:


Well, frankly, I don't think my reasons were very good in retrospect, although I did think they were at the time. And I'm really not sure that I'm cut out for law at all (still, after graduating and finding one of those magical unicorn "job" things). So there's that I guess.

I do want to call you out on that second sentence a little bit though. People go to law school for a lot of stupid reasons.

Also, the underlined portion of your post is key. Law school is a big gamble, and luck plays a big role in how things turn out. So if you get that, and understand the odds, you're ahead of the game.

Anyway, I don't know exactly what I was responding to there, but I'm tired and had to go to the DMV today so everything is entertaining now.


TLS breaks up the monotony of my day and makes my waiting game much more bearable. Misery loves company.

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Zoomie
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Zoomie » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:46 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
I think if it was a bad career choice, people wouldn't go to law school. It wouldn't be an inundated career.

You missed the part where before LST and David Segal's NYT articles law schools actively doctored and obfuscated poor employment statistics for YEARS. And got away with it.


Oh yeah, that thing!


Meh, we can collect unemployment and get a financial hardship forbearance on our loans. No biggie. 8) I've always wanted to try out my barista skills or be a cook in the military.

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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby Ruxin1 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:51 pm

Zoomie wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
I think if it was a bad career choice, people wouldn't go to law school. It wouldn't be an inundated career.

You missed the part where before LST and David Segal's NYT articles law schools actively doctored and obfuscated poor employment statistics for YEARS. And got away with it.


Oh yeah, that thing!


Meh, we can collect unemployment and get a financial hardship forbearance on our loans. No biggie. 8) I've always wanted to try out my barista skills or be a cook in the military.


...

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romothesavior
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Re: Tell me the honest truth: Low GPA. Should I go to Law School

Postby romothesavior » Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:17 pm

Zoomie wrote:Tell me who has a great outcome in today's economy? If not law school, then what? I'm not misinformed. I fully understand the potential implications of going to law school. I don't plan on racking up $150k of debt though.

Is the economy tough for everybody? Yup. But it's a false equivalency to say, "Well it's tough for everyone, so going to law school is equally bad as not going." Actually, no, it's quite possibly the worst career and financial decision a person will ever make.

I don't know your situation, but it sounds like you've thought it through and I wish you luck. Graduating with no or little debt is a great thing. Again, law school is not a terrible decision for everyone, and it is even the right move for a lot of people. But for a huge chunk of people, it is financial and career Russian Roulette. I'm not going to stop trying to dissuade those people. If posters didn't shake the fuck out of me as a 0L, I'd more than likely be jobless at a shitty school right now.




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