Applying only for possible $ offer?

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Ialdabaoth
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Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:45 pm

My numbers are 168/4.0 (non-URM). Based on my research (LSN, here, etc.), it appears that it would be worthwhile for me to submit apps to Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Duke, Michigan, Virginia, and Chicago (maybe)--none of which I'm particularly interested in attending--in order to possibly obtain scholarship offers that I could leverage against other T14 offers.

Does this sound reasonable? Should I apply to any additional leverage schools? I'm really only interested in Stanford, Berkeley, and NYU. I know Stanford is a very long shot.

ETA: I'm not sure how reliable LSN scholarship data are, especially because some people don't differentiate between need-based and merit-based.

M458
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby M458 » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:17 am

Ialdabaoth wrote:My numbers are 168/4.0 (non-URM). Based on my research (LSN, here, etc.), it appears that it would be worthwhile for me to submit apps to Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Duke, Michigan, Virginia, and Chicago (maybe)--none of which I'm particularly interested in attending--in order to possibly obtain scholarship offers that I could leverage against other T14 offers.

Does this sound reasonable? Should I apply to any additional leverage schools? I'm really only interested in Stanford, Berkeley, and NYU. I know Stanford is a very long shot.

ETA: I'm not sure how reliable LSN scholarship data are, especially because some people don't differentiate between need-based and merit-based.


I'm not sure how this cycle will play out with the decline in test-takers/applicants, but I'd suggest applying to the schools you mentioned in the first paragraph not for scholarship leverage, but because Stanford, Berkeley, and NYU are all reaches with a 168. You could conceivably get shut out of all three...just something to keep in mind. If you really want scholarship money in the T-14, you might have to end up retaking. You have a great GPA, but with a 168, you're not helping any T-14's median.

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mqt
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby mqt » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:36 am

I'd imagine Stanford doesn't really care if you get money somewhere else. If I were you, I'd just be happy if you got in, let alone with money.

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:16 am

M458 wrote:
Ialdabaoth wrote:My numbers are 168/4.0 (non-URM). Based on my research (LSN, here, etc.), it appears that it would be worthwhile for me to submit apps to Cornell, Georgetown, Northwestern, Duke, Michigan, Virginia, and Chicago (maybe)--none of which I'm particularly interested in attending--in order to possibly obtain scholarship offers that I could leverage against other T14 offers.

Does this sound reasonable? Should I apply to any additional leverage schools? I'm really only interested in Stanford, Berkeley, and NYU. I know Stanford is a very long shot.

ETA: I'm not sure how reliable LSN scholarship data are, especially because some people don't differentiate between need-based and merit-based.


I'm not sure how this cycle will play out with the decline in test-takers/applicants, but I'd suggest applying to the schools you mentioned in the first paragraph not for scholarship leverage, but because Stanford, Berkeley, and NYU are all reaches with a 168. You could conceivably get shut out of all three...just something to keep in mind. If you really want scholarship money in the T-14, you might have to end up retaking. You have a great GPA, but with a 168, you're not helping any T-14's median.


Yes, I realize that all three are reaches, but Berkeley's median LSAT is actually a 167. Berkeley is my top choice, and they have a specific scholarship matching program, so that's my main concern here.

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sinfiery
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby sinfiery » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:24 am

Ialdabaoth wrote:Yes, I realize that all three are reaches, but Berkeley's median LSAT is actually a 167. Berkeley is my top choice, and they have a specific scholarship matching program, so that's my main concern here.

I believe Berkeley's one of those schools where the medians are misleading a bit.


Either way, I believe you can negotiate scholarship money from any school that admits you by referencing another school so it is definitely a good idea. Especially this cycle.

Also, if you read the specifics of the Berkeley scholarship matching program, they basically say nothing is guaranteed, and if you aren't a strong candidate, they might just give you nothing.


Also, from what I've gathered, even though most schools might mention they regard financial need into scholarship considerations, they don't.

Although not perfect, this is a good guideline:
HYS = 100% need
Rest = 100% merit

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:41 am

sinfiery wrote:
Ialdabaoth wrote:Yes, I realize that all three are reaches, but Berkeley's median LSAT is actually a 167. Berkeley is my top choice, and they have a specific scholarship matching program, so that's my main concern here.

I believe Berkeley's one of those schools where the medians are misleading a bit.


Either way, I believe you can negotiate scholarship money from any school that admits you by referencing another school so it is definitely a good idea. Especially this cycle.

Also, if you read the specifics of the Berkeley scholarship matching program, they basically say nothing is guaranteed, and if you aren't a strong candidate, they might just give you nothing.


Also, from what I've gathered, even though most schools might mention they regard financial need into scholarship considerations, they don't.

Although not perfect, this is a good guideline:
HYS = 100% need
Rest = 100% merit


I'm curious, what do you mean by "misleading"? Do you mean that it's more difficult to get into than the median LSAT would indicate? I mean, the 25th is only a 163, so something's got to give.

And thanks for the perspective on financial aid, but I have heard anecdotes of reasonably good need-based offers at Berkeley.

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sinfiery
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby sinfiery » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:45 am

Ialdabaoth wrote:I'm curious, what do you mean by "misleading"? Do you mean that it's more difficult to get into than the median LSAT would indicate? I mean, the 25th is only a 163, so something's got to give.

And thanks for the perspective on financial aid, but I have heard anecdotes of reasonably good need-based offers at Berkeley.

Yes. Same with Stanford but even more misleading for Stanford.


Did not know that about Berkeley. Did the recipients have strong numbers for Berkeley?

WhiskeynCoke
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby WhiskeynCoke » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:01 am

I'm not sure if "misleading" is the appropriate word; I think "unpredictable" is a little more accurate. Berkeley doesn't appear to be as easily wooed by super high LSAT scores, as evidenced by their 167 LSAT median. They turn down 180's like it's fun. I hate the word "holistic" but it really does seem to be the case. They'll admit people because they liked that they talked about the joyful art of pottery in their personal statement, or whatever.

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IAFG
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby IAFG » Wed Nov 21, 2012 3:13 am

Yes this sounds reasonable. Berkeley is all but insisting you do with their matching policy, right? But remember that you still have to have tight apps for those schools (good why X essays etc) or you're wasting your money.

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:49 pm

sinfiery wrote:
Ialdabaoth wrote:I'm curious, what do you mean by "misleading"? Do you mean that it's more difficult to get into than the median LSAT would indicate? I mean, the 25th is only a 163, so something's got to give.

And thanks for the perspective on financial aid, but I have heard anecdotes of reasonably good need-based offers at Berkeley.

Yes. Same with Stanford but even more misleading for Stanford.


Did not know that about Berkeley. Did the recipients have strong numbers for Berkeley?


The details are a little fuzzy for me, but I remember that he had a 170 and a fairly low GPA.

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:53 pm

IAFG wrote:Yes this sounds reasonable. Berkeley is all but insisting you do with their matching policy, right? But remember that you still have to have tight apps for those schools (good why X essays etc) or you're wasting your money.


Yes, that's a good point on still having strong apps for the other schools. Those Why Xs will be a hassle (not to mention reducing my PS from 4 to 2 pages), but I don't want to throw away a shot at a possible $20-65k.

What do you mean by: "Berkeley is all but insisting you do with their matching policy, right?"?

Thanks for your input!

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sinfiery
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby sinfiery » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:08 pm

Ialdabaoth wrote:
IAFG wrote:Yes this sounds reasonable. Berkeley is all but insisting you do with their matching policy, right? But remember that you still have to have tight apps for those schools (good why X essays etc) or you're wasting your money.


Yes, that's a good point on still having strong apps for the other schools. Those Why Xs will be a hassle (not to mention reducing my PS from 4 to 2 pages), but I don't want to throw away a shot at a possible $20-65k.

What do you mean by: "Berkeley is all but insisting you do with their matching policy, right?"?

Thanks for your input!

Reading the specifics of their program sucks. Good luck.

Am I guaranteed a Matching Scholarship if I apply for one? What are the selection criteria?

This is a competitive, merit-based scholarship program. Not all applicants who submit their materials will be offered a Matching Scholarship. Successful applicants will show potential for outstanding and unique contributions to the Berkeley Law community, both in and out of the classroom.

Berkeley Law seeks to enroll students from a wide variety of backgrounds and priority for Matching Scholarships will be given to individuals who have demonstrated in their law school application that they have the potential to make significant contributions to the intellectual diversity of our entering class and who have potential for leadership. The program will give consideration to applicants who have significant academic achievements and who have overcome barriers such as economic, social, or educational disadvantage. The number of awards granted each year is limited by the total funds available.


The fact of the matter is that the scholarship committee will make independent decisions for each application based on the strength of your materials, and not on how expensive you are or another school's ranking.

We do not review offers from multiple schools, you may select only one for consideration and apply only one time.

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6957.htm

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Ialdabaoth
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Re: Applying only for possible $ offer?

Postby Ialdabaoth » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:14 pm

sinfiery wrote:
Ialdabaoth wrote:
IAFG wrote:Yes this sounds reasonable. Berkeley is all but insisting you do with their matching policy, right? But remember that you still have to have tight apps for those schools (good why X essays etc) or you're wasting your money.


Yes, that's a good point on still having strong apps for the other schools. Those Why Xs will be a hassle (not to mention reducing my PS from 4 to 2 pages), but I don't want to throw away a shot at a possible $20-65k.

What do you mean by: "Berkeley is all but insisting you do with their matching policy, right?"?

Thanks for your input!

Reading the specifics of their program sucks. Good luck.

Am I guaranteed a Matching Scholarship if I apply for one? What are the selection criteria?

This is a competitive, merit-based scholarship program. Not all applicants who submit their materials will be offered a Matching Scholarship. Successful applicants will show potential for outstanding and unique contributions to the Berkeley Law community, both in and out of the classroom.

Berkeley Law seeks to enroll students from a wide variety of backgrounds and priority for Matching Scholarships will be given to individuals who have demonstrated in their law school application that they have the potential to make significant contributions to the intellectual diversity of our entering class and who have potential for leadership. The program will give consideration to applicants who have significant academic achievements and who have overcome barriers such as economic, social, or educational disadvantage. The number of awards granted each year is limited by the total funds available.


The fact of the matter is that the scholarship committee will make independent decisions for each application based on the strength of your materials, and not on how expensive you are or another school's ranking.

We do not review offers from multiple schools, you may select only one for consideration and apply only one time.

http://www.law.berkeley.edu/6957.htm


Yeah, I've read that too, but I have a (maybe fanciful) feeling that it may just be BS and that they are really more generous than they let on, haha.




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