Recommend my student to Cooley law?

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cahwc12
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Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby cahwc12 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:54 am

I recently began tutoring a student who is locked into the tampa bay area, and she can really only consider Stetson or Cooley's new Tampa campus. I went over with her the basics of admissions and how important the LSAT is, and I've convinced her to take in February instead of just settling for December so she has more time to prepare for a better scholarship.

She has worked in law offices around tampa for more than 10 years and knows a lot of lawyers and wants to practice in the tampa bay area. Given these conditions, is Cooley-Tampa something she could consider? Personally, I think with a good LSAT score, a part-time Stetson program would be worth considering in her position, but I really don't know much about unranked schools.

I asked her if she might have the ability to relocate to UF or FSU and it seems she might consider UF but FSU would be too far for her. So, given only schools in central Florida (Stetson, Cooley-Tampa, some Orlando schools perhaps), is Cooley-Tampa worth the consideration, or should she only look to Stetson?

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stillwater
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby stillwater » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:08 am

what it all boils down to is this: do you hate the person?

rad lulz
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:45 am

lol

I wouldn't even go to Stetson unless it was free or close to it given the poor job outlook.

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DougieFresh
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby DougieFresh » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:04 pm

No.

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Typhoon24
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby Typhoon24 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:46 pm

I think we all know that the only schools worth going to in Florida are UF and FSU. However, if this individual has her heart dead set on practicing in that area and only has a choice between those two schools, then Stetson's the lesser of the two evils.

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cahwc12
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby cahwc12 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:20 pm

rad lulz wrote:lol

I wouldn't even go to Stetson unless it was free or close to it given the poor job outlook.


Normally I would agree with you, but given her ins with the legal community locally, the job prospects shouldn't be as important a consideration, right?

Of course, what I told her is how sure can she really be about these connections panning out? And, more generally, how sure can someone be about securing employment through these kinds of connections? I noted that both Cooley's and Stetson's employment outcomes are not very good, although Stetson has a much better reputation locally than does Cooley (which is just opening its campus in January). However, if those employment outcomes are moot because she has something lined up through her own connections, shouldn't she just go to whichever of the two is cheaper? (I think Stetson part-time looks like the cheapest bet given scholarship probabilities and her numbers.)

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homestyle28
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby homestyle28 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:31 pm

I love TLS groupthink as much as the next guy, but c'mon people. She's got 10+ years legalwork experience, and presumably network connections in Tampa, right? So I'm assuming family and other connections keep her from moving. I'd have her run her thoughts by some lawyers she knows and see what they think, esp. if she's done solid work for any firms that might turn into job offers, those are the opinions that matter. Given the unique variables involved, I'd ratchet up the LSAT as much as she can then take the best scholarship she can get...Stetson is fairly old, so probably has more cred in the local market than Cooley.

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cahwc12
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby cahwc12 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:33 pm

homestyle28 wrote:I love TLS groupthink as much as the next guy, but c'mon people. She's got 10+ years legalwork experience, and presumably network connections in Tampa, right? So I'm assuming family and other connections keep her from moving. I'd have her run her thoughts by some lawyers she knows and see what they think, esp. if she's done solid work for any firms that might turn into job offers, those are the opinions that matter. Given the unique variables involved, I'd ratchet up the LSAT as much as she can then take the best scholarship she can get...Stetson is fairly old, so probably has more cred in the local market than Cooley.


This is exactly in line with my thinking, but I am wary of falling victim to some confirmation bias here. Can anyone give some reasons why one might not heed this advice?

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specialsnowflake
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby specialsnowflake » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:35 pm

I call troll

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homestyle28
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby homestyle28 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:38 pm

cahwc12 wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:I love TLS groupthink as much as the next guy, but c'mon people. She's got 10+ years legalwork experience, and presumably network connections in Tampa, right? So I'm assuming family and other connections keep her from moving. I'd have her run her thoughts by some lawyers she knows and see what they think, esp. if she's done solid work for any firms that might turn into job offers, those are the opinions that matter. Given the unique variables involved, I'd ratchet up the LSAT as much as she can then take the best scholarship she can get...Stetson is fairly old, so probably has more cred in the local market than Cooley.


This is exactly in line with my thinking, but I am wary of falling victim to some confirmation bias here. Can anyone give some reasons why one might not heed this advice?


If she ever wants to leave the Tampa legal market or has any clerkship aspirations she might look at better programs. If she is uncertain what kind of legal career she wants and wants as many doors open as possible she'd need to look at better programs. If she just wants stability + the option to be a practicing attorney, prob part time at stetson makes most sense.

rad lulz
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby rad lulz » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:15 pm

Cooley is a joke in Tampa.

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby Ex Cearulo » Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:51 pm

rad lulz wrote:Cooley is a joke. in Tampa.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:13 pm

If she's been working in the legal industry in Tampa for 10+ years, she should have a good idea which schools will and won't open certain doors for her. Stetson is well respected by the old guard in Tampa, which is most likely the exact group she has an in with. Depending on what you think she can get on the LSAT, I'd either say Stetson with a near-to or full-ride or UF. But the most reliable source of information would probably be whoever these connections she has made are (Definitely not TLS.)

ETA: What I mean is, if she asks which degree she should get and if they could speculate on if they'd have a position for her and she gets a lukewarm response like "Oh, sure, we'd hire you," then UF or bust. If something more firm comes of the conversation, then I'd entertain Stetson.

071816
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby 071816 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:18 pm

Image

WhiskeynCoke
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby WhiskeynCoke » Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:36 pm

How is it that she's been working in law offices in the region for over 10 years and she has to ask YOU this question? (who seems to have no idea)

She has worked in law offices around tampa for more than 10 years and knows a lot of lawyers and wants to practice in the tampa bay area. Given these conditions, is Cooley-Tampa something she could consider?


Does "knowing a lot of lawyers" translate into "having a guaranteed job lined up?" If she has a guaranteed job lined up and can get alot of $$$ from the school, it probably doesn't much matter where she goes (unless the future employer has input). However, if she ever loses her job that was "lined up," especially before getting significant experience, it may be hard/impossible to lateral with Cooley on her resume. If she DOESN'T have a job lined up, she should no way in hell go to Cooley or Stetson because they are absolutely worthless if you want to FIND a job.

Your student needs to have an LSAT score before we can give her meaningful input. If she's got a 170+ and a good GPA, she should obviously not go to either of those schools you mentioned if she's serious about being a lawyer (unless guaranteed job + full scholly). Probably not any school in Florida, actually.

To be honest, I thought this was a flame because of the thread topic. Cooley is widely considered a running joke in the legal world. As someone who seems to be involved somewhat in this process (LSAT tudor?), you should realize this sooner rather than later.

bp shinners
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby bp shinners » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:30 am

WhiskeynCoke wrote:Does "knowing a lot of lawyers" translate into "having a guaranteed job lined up?"


This. Without something in writing, it's a gamble. Those connections could retire. Or they could move. Or they could actually have very little say in who gets hired.

In short, unless she's 100% sure (which, honestly, you really can't be) that she has a job lined up as long as she graduates and passes the bar, there's a (pretty large) inherent risk in going to an unranked school. If she's willing to take on that risk, fine. Just make sure she's well aware that she's relying on her connections and not the education to get her a job.

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cahwc12
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby cahwc12 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:30 pm

bp shinners wrote:
WhiskeynCoke wrote:Does "knowing a lot of lawyers" translate into "having a guaranteed job lined up?"


This. Without something in writing, it's a gamble. Those connections could retire. Or they could move. Or they could actually have very little say in who gets hired.

In short, unless she's 100% sure (which, honestly, you really can't be) that she has a job lined up as long as she graduates and passes the bar, there's a (pretty large) inherent risk in going to an unranked school. If she's willing to take on that risk, fine. Just make sure she's well aware that she's relying on her connections and not the education to get her a job.


This is the gist of what I told her but without much confidence because I don't know much about these unranked schools. When we meet again today I'll be sure to reiterate it more confidently so she can better understand what she's getting into.

usfvictor
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby usfvictor » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:43 pm

Similar situation as your student and have never considered Cooley, as it it not held in high regard w/in Tampa(SN:although i do know some successful attorneys from there that work in Tampa). Stetson is fine if she gets $$, other choice would be FIU(if she's at least willing to leave Tampa but stay in FL).

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JCougar
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby JCougar » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:28 pm

homestyle28 wrote:I love TLS groupthink as much as the next guy, but c'mon people. She's got 10+ years legalwork experience, and presumably network connections in Tampa, right? So I'm assuming family and other connections keep her from moving. I'd have her run her thoughts by some lawyers she knows and see what they think, esp. if she's done solid work for any firms that might turn into job offers, those are the opinions that matter. Given the unique variables involved, I'd ratchet up the LSAT as much as she can then take the best scholarship she can get...Stetson is fairly old, so probably has more cred in the local market than Cooley.


All her connections won't help her if their law firms simply have zero open positions. Connections can't create work when it's not there. Only clients can. I've seen a lot of people go to law school because they thought they had connections that ended up not coming through.

Cooley will be an anchor on her resume. It might be worth it to go to Stetson if she gets a significant scholarship, or if she can find a firm to pay for some of her tuition (assuming she goes part time while still working at this firm). The Tampa legal market has very low salaries, too. So even if she gets hooked up with a job though her connections, it might not pay enough to equalize a massive, six-figure debt.

usfvictor
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Re: Recommend my student to Cooley law?

Postby usfvictor » Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:45 pm

going part-time, she should not be racking up $100k debt. That is, as long as she manages her finances accordingly.




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