2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

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bre.kidman
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2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby bre.kidman » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:52 am

Hey there. Long time lurker, first time poster. Not finding a whole lot of info on others with my stats/interests. I want to go into public interest--preferably women's rights, victim's advocacy, etc.--but didn't do well in college owing mostly to PTSD (which is cited in the personal statement as one of the reasons I want to practice). I'm broke as a joke and feel it's unwise to take on massive debt to practice the kind of law you don't make big bucks for. My questions are:

1. With a 163 and a 2.8, do I have a shot at a big scholarship anywhere besides Cooley? I know I'll likely be limited to T3/T4, but I'm hoping to go someplace that would be cool to live after graduation. (Read: coastal and/or art-infused metropolis.)

2. If I re-took the LSAT, I'm certain I could get to 165... and mostly-certain (with a few months of practice on timing for games) that I could reach between 167-170 (since that's what I was doing on the practice tests before I took it). How much would that offset my GPA? At which schools would it be of most benefit?

3. I applied at American (super reach, just to see), Lewis & Clark (same), Northeastern (hoping for public interest scholarship), Loyola Chicago (which would make me a double Rambler), UMaine (where I'm in-state), Stetson, and Southwestern. Any ideas on other places that might be a good fit $$$-wise and for PI? Am I applying way out of my league?

ETA: 4. I'm queer. I've been getting some "we love gay students" stuff from Tulane and Hastings, where I didn't think I'd get in. Does GLBT status really give anyone a bump anywhere?

ETA (AGAIN): I've been out of school and working (in customer service. Nothing exceptional, but doing very well and taking on responsibilities with HR, project management, etc) for three years. Probably should have said that.

Thanks in advance for any responses!

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kuttlefish
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby kuttlefish » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:40 pm

Tulane is a trap unless they give you $$. Way overpriced for the new orleans market and rapidly falling in terms of national clout. If you're interested in Louisiana, you need to seriously consider LSU. They've been steadily climbing in rankings, their grad network dominates Louisiana, and they're Cheap!!! <$20K per year. Yeah, Baton Rouge sucks, but you can easily get a job in New Orleans when your done.

Also try Loyola in New Orleans. They're overpriced as well, but are far more generous with scholarships. As far as public interest clinics go, they're highly respected in the area... just be forewarned, outside of Orleans Parish, a Loyola degree isn't going to carry much weight.

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dingbat
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby dingbat » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:44 pm

Savannah will give you a good scholarship.

Truth be told, with those numbers, no school that will give you a scholarship is worth attending and no school that will accept you at full price is worth sticker (except for flagships in small-market states).

Retake and hope for the best

bre.kidman
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby bre.kidman » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:02 pm

dingbat wrote:Savannah will give you a good scholarship.

Truth be told, with those numbers, no school that will give you a scholarship is worth attending and no school that will accept you at full price is worth sticker (except for flagships in small-market states).

Retake and hope for the best


I appreciate the honesty, but am curious about your definition of "worth attending." Are we talking schools on my list or are we talking further down into unranked territory?

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dingbat
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby dingbat » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:19 pm

I missed the queer part, which may affect some schools (I don't know)

To answe your question easily, American is currently your reach. I wouldnt advise anyone on attending American on anything less than half tuition, if not full

Edit: and I'm not a member of the T14 or bust camp.
In a small market only go to the top school
In a large market, second best is reasonable, but not third

bre.kidman
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby bre.kidman » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:49 pm

dingbat wrote:I missed the queer part, which may affect some schools (I don't know)

To answe your question easily, American is currently your reach. I wouldnt advise anyone on attending American on anything less than half tuition, if not full

Edit: and I'm not a member of the T14 or bust camp.
In a small market only go to the top school
In a large market, second best is reasonable, but not third


That sounds legitimate. I'm not going anywhere at sticker and will definitely not take out more than half-tuition in debt anywhere. Like everyone else, just trying to make the most of what I've got :) Thanks for your input!

bre.kidman
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby bre.kidman » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:20 pm

kuttlefish wrote:Tulane is a trap unless they give you $$. Way overpriced for the new orleans market and rapidly falling in terms of national clout. If you're interested in Louisiana, you need to seriously consider LSU. They've been steadily climbing in rankings, their grad network dominates Louisiana, and they're Cheap!!! <$20K per year. Yeah, Baton Rouge sucks, but you can easily get a job in New Orleans when your done.

Also try Loyola in New Orleans. They're overpriced as well, but are far more generous with scholarships. As far as public interest clinics go, they're highly respected in the area... just be forewarned, outside of Orleans Parish, a Loyola degree isn't going to carry much weight.


Thanks for the heads up on Tulane. I applied there for undergrad and thought a little about New Orleans, but I'm a Yankee through and through. I imagine I'd struggle with being married to Louisiana indefinitely ;)

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Nova
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby Nova » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:42 pm

There is no gay bump.

You should definitely retake since your score does not represent your peak abilities.

Be aware the schools that will offer you scholarships will make you compete to retain them. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=189178

BigZuck
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:44 pm

dingbat wrote:I missed the queer part, which may affect some schools (I don't know)

To answe your question easily, American is currently your reach. I wouldnt advise anyone on attending American on anything less than half tuition, if not full

Edit: and I'm not a member of the T14 or bust camp.
In a small market only go to the top school
In a large market, second best is reasonable, but not third


:shock: Third best school in a large market is unreasonable??? Where do you go to school again?

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Nova
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby Nova » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:45 pm

BigZuck wrote:
dingbat wrote:I missed the queer part, which may affect some schools (I don't know)

To answe your question easily, American is currently your reach. I wouldnt advise anyone on attending American on anything less than half tuition, if not full

Edit: and I'm not a member of the T14 or bust camp.
In a small market only go to the top school
In a large market, second best is reasonable, but not third


:shock: Third best school in a large market is unreasonable??? Where do you go to school again?


Lol i thought the same thing when I read that.

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dingbat
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby dingbat » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:57 pm

Nova wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
dingbat wrote:I missed the queer part, which may affect some schools (I don't know)

To answe your question easily, American is currently your reach. I wouldnt advise anyone on attending American on anything less than half tuition, if not full

Edit: and I'm not a member of the T14 or bust camp.
In a small market only go to the top school
In a large market, second best is reasonable, but not third


:shock: Third best school in a large market is unreasonable??? Where do you go to school again?


Lol i thought the same thing when I read that.

Third best school in the largest market (4th if you count Cornell)

Note that the NYC market is just about twice as big as any other market, with close to 9000 attorneys, creating a little more leeway.
LA, Boston, DC, Houston are all around 4000-4500 attorneys, which are generally considered large markets

BoGuaGua
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby BoGuaGua » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:03 pm

apply to a few lower T1 splitter friendly schools OP, u never know, especially with applicants # going down, and i know for a fact u can get a lot of money with those numbers for T2s, so don't get discouraged

bre.kidman
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby bre.kidman » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:22 pm

Nova wrote:There is no gay bump.

You should definitely retake since your score does not represent your peak abilities.

Be aware the schools that will offer you scholarships will make you compete to retain them. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=189178


Bummer about the gay bump. Hastings shouldn't be such a tease :-/

I'm considering re-taking, but will probably do so next cycle if I can't get what I need out of this cycle. The cost is pretty heavy for someone just beyond fee-waiver status and I don't have time to invest in prep for the next few months.

BoGuaGua: thanks for the words of encouragement! Any suggestions of splitter-friendly schools? Particularly generous T2s :D

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kuttlefish
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby kuttlefish » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:57 pm

bre.kidman wrote:Thanks for the heads up on Tulane. I applied there for undergrad and thought a little about New Orleans, but I'm a Yankee through and through. I imagine I'd struggle with being married to Louisiana indefinitely ;)



FWIW I'm about as yankee as you can get, yet I'm proud to call NOLA home. It's not like the rest of the south, more like the North Caribbean. But it is a very insular city. If you want national reach, you're not going to get it here (no matter what others may try to claim). On the other hand, there is a vibrant gay community...

Jredelman15
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby Jredelman15 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:59 pm

kuttlefish wrote:Tulane is a trap unless they give you $$. Way overpriced for the new orleans market and rapidly falling in terms of national clout. If you're interested in Louisiana, you need to seriously consider LSU. They've been steadily climbing in rankings, their grad network dominates Louisiana, and they're Cheap!!! <$20K per year. Yeah, Baton Rouge sucks, but you can easily get a job in New Orleans when your done.

Also try Loyola in New Orleans. They're overpriced as well, but are far more generous with scholarships. As far as public interest clinics go, they're highly respected in the area... just be forewarned, outside of Orleans Parish, a Loyola degree isn't going to carry much weight.


Insight on LSU?

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kuttlefish
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby kuttlefish » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:22 pm

Jredelman15 wrote:Insight on LSU?


I'm not sure what you're looking for, but I work in a decent sized firm in New Orleans and half the attorneys (including named partners) graduated from LSU. The other half is split between Tulane, Loyola, and other. I went to LSU's open house recently, and I'd have to say they were the most honest about cost vs benefit for law schools in general, and really encouraged applicants to manage their expectations. Tulane on the other hand, tried to sell me a used car (with a free "sports law" certificate!!!)

Louisiana's civil law system and ridiculous bar exam gives a boost to local schools, so like I said, you have to be pretty committed to staying local. That said, LSU has the best bar passage rates and post-grad employment rates of any school in the region. (which is why it's rankings are going up)

Oh, and Tuition at sticker will be under $55k total for three years... a debt that's perfectly manageable on a public service salary.

They're my fall back if I can't get into T14.

Jredelman15
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby Jredelman15 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:25 pm

kuttlefish wrote:
Jredelman15 wrote:Insight on LSU?


I'm not sure what you're looking for, but I work in a decent sized firm in New Orleans and half the attorneys (including named partners) graduated from LSU. The other half is split between Tulane, Loyola, and other. I went to LSU's open house recently, and I'd have to say they were the most honest about cost vs benefit for law schools in general, and really encouraged applicants to manage their expectations. Tulane on the other hand, tried to sell me a used car (with a free "sports law" certificate!!!)

Louisiana's civil law system and ridiculous bar exam gives a boost to local schools, so like I said, you have to be pretty committed to staying local. That said, LSU has the best bar passage rates and post-grad employment rates of any school in the region. (which is why it's rankings are going up)

Oh, and Tuition at sticker will be under $55k total for three years... a debt that's perfectly manageable on a public service salary.

They're my fall back if I can't get into T14.


I just solicited a fee waiver so we will see.

bre.kidman
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby bre.kidman » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:10 pm

Quick follow up/bump: I got half tuition at Stetson (provided I stay above 2.25 after year one). I was really hoping for a full there. Do my chances improve on the other apps I submitted on Halloween if I take the February LSAT and get a bump over the 165 mark? Am I better off waiting it out, seeing what I get back with the current stats, and trying with new June scores next cycle if it's not enough? Are there any schools NOT on my list that I should put in for this cycle? My customer service job(s) is (have been) pretty soul crushing and I'm pretty anxious to move on with my life, but don't want to wind up with massive debt and an unusable degree :?

Cellar-door
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby Cellar-door » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:18 pm

Have you considered CUNY? It's much cheaper than most schools and has a nice niche in public interest.

bre.kidman
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby bre.kidman » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:32 pm

Cellar-door wrote:Have you considered CUNY? It's much cheaper than most schools and has a nice niche in public interest.


I had considered, but was worried about all the competition in the New York market. After reading the profile here (and taking a look at the public interest stats) it actually seems like a pretty decent fit. Will definitely get the papers moving. Thanks for the tip!

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Lawquacious
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby Lawquacious » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:37 pm

Cellar-door wrote:Have you considered CUNY? It's much cheaper than most schools and has a nice niche in public interest.



Sounds like TCR with OP's stats.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:06 pm

I'm not sure how Tulane was brought it to this, but it would be unlikely to give the OP a good scholarship with those stats. LSU would be way cheaper than Tulane even with out of state rates, however, Tulane would probably get you back to where you have ties to in ways that LSU wouldn't. Nevertheless, I wouldn't bother coming to the southeastern states for law school with the intention to stay without pre-law school ties. Tradition and ties are very important here, and the lack of them can hurt you a lot when it comes to the job search.

Someone mentioned CUNY, and that wouldn't be horrible. You could also look into Houston, SUNY, and other similar schools that are affordable in or near very large markets that may give you a scholarship.

And as a side note, LSU doesn't really provide better employment prospects than Tulane, but that would be a discussion for a different thread, as the OP shouldn't be considering LSU or Tulane.

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kuttlefish
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby kuttlefish » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:48 pm

Ha! I knew it was only a matter of time before the Tulane Defenders came out. Tulane was brought up by the OP (they've been sending him pro-LGBT mail). My point was that Tulane isn't really worth it unless they throw some money his way.

After that, we probably agree on most points including that LSU vs Tulane is best reserved for a different thread.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: 2.8/163/Public Interest/$$$?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:29 pm

I would hardly say that anything I said in my prior post could reasonably be contrued as me defending Tulane. The LSU trolling was getting out of hand, and it would likely end up hurting the op if they actually decided to go there because they don't have ties to Louisiana. The lack of those ties would arguably kill the ability of the OP to get a good job in Louisiana (except in New Orleans) from either school. While Tulane can get the OP back to where they have ties, if admitted, the OP would likely have to pay sticker, and that is too high of a price to pay. Thus, the OP should just stay away from both schools.




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