A handful of questions

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Yankees1404
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A handful of questions

Postby Yankees1404 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:25 pm

Hello all,

Although I have frequently visited this website for the last six months, I have yet to register or post. I have a bunch of questions that I wanted answered with opinions from current law students, those who have finished LS, or those in the process of applying. Any insight on any of my questions is highly appreciated. I realize it may be more beneficial to create many posts to elicit more feedback, but this seems easier and could also be a point of reference for students with questions similar to mine. I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

Let me preface with some details about myself that may be relevant in answering any or all of my questions. I took the October LSAT and received a 156. I am registered for December with the hopes of reaching the low 160s. My undergraduate GPA is a 3.53. I had a 3.3 for my first two years and a 3.7 for my final two, so I hope that upward trend is given consideration when my applications are reviewed. I attended a relatively "average" undergraduate institution. I majored in Communication, which although is frequently disrespected by my peers, provided me with a good foundation for success in law school. I had intentions of "focusing/tracking" in Journalism, but at the end of my sophomore year my university added a branch of communication entitled "Communication and the Law." This coincided with me being exposed to legal courses for the first time in my life and at this point I started to realize how passionate I was about studying law. My “Communication and the Law” GPA was a 3.83 and my Criminal Justice GPA was a 3.89 (minor, but I took close to the major course load by using all my free electives).

My most important concern relates to my personal statement. I plan on writing about how enrolling in "American Court" my sophomore fall exposed me to legal coursework for the first time in my life and finally gave me an academic area of interest. English and history had always been my strong areas academically, but they never engaged me in a way that law and crime has. To make my personal statement stand out, I was going to critique myself honestly. I plan on writing about how I had not fully matured when I arrived at college and that my attitude toward school changed significantly once I found my passion- and my grades reinforce that statement. I feel as though this will help me establish credibility for the closing argument of my personal statement: the fact that this has been a passion of mine for years and no subject has ever come close to peeking my interest in a way that law has. My question is…is it bad to critique yourself somewhat negatively and honestly in the PS? I do not plan on bashing myself to the extreme, but I think it’ll make my summation more believable. Any thoughts or insight about this approach to the PS?

I plan on writing as many addendum/optional essays that every school allows to showcase my writing skills. For LSAT addendums I am also concerned about my approach. The first time I ever took a timed LSAT during the end of my junior year I received a 144. I took the exam cold and had no clue about the format. Without any prep or studying, a week later I got a 150. I think this is because I became more familiar with the format and time constraints. I was HORRIBLE at analytical reasoning, however. The first exam ever I had an 8/23 in that section. I spent the entire summer after graduating this May studying analytical reasoning, and did each section 5 times or so spaced out over the course of weeks(from the modern era/2000 PTS on, all the way up to PT 66, which took over 100 hours) and by the end of the summer I improved immensely. In October, I received 20/23 on the analytical section, emphasizing how far I’ve come in this section that initially made me reconsider my dreams of going to LS. Should I even bother writing an LSAT addendum, if, say I get a 160 in December? Another thing that has always bothered me about the LSAT is the scientific reading passage. I am abysmal with science and I always miss a few questions on those passages. Conversely I almost always receive full credit on the legal passages. Is this worth mentioning? I realize that in law school, some cases will be so foreign and new that they will seem like science…but the fact of the matter is that the scientific terms throw me off like no other, and I would need to read those passages 2-3 times to have the same level of comprehension as I do with the legal based passages. Is any of what I’ve mentioned above worth mentioning in an LSAT addendum? Or should I just scrap the whole idea if my improvement is only from a 156 to the low 160s. I feel as though my improvement on the logic games does speak at least somewhat positively about my work ethic and determination. And, as the Manhattan reading comprehension book has pointed out (I know, studying reading has been pretty useless, but every point helps when your in the gray area that I am) someone with a background in a certain field almost always retains information related to their field with expertise- as is the case with my background in criminal justice and the American legal system.

I currently have 34 active applications on my LSAC account. I plan on cutting this list down to roughly 20 schools when I am submitting my apps in late December/early January. Should I let schools know I am considering this many options? Years ago, Fordham Law was my dream. I am still going to give that application a chance as a part time student if I can reach 160…but, will schools hold it against me if I’m open about the fact my list is so long because I need to consider any and all options? Please do not apply to this post if you are going to tell me that many of the schools I am considering are a waste of time with meager job prospects. I am only considering schools ranked from 28-100. No tier 3/4s and certainly no T14s. That being said, the consensus about the legal market seems to be that the top 5-10% of students from T2s still have a shot at earning a very good living practicing law, and I have my sights set on achieving this, no matter how difficult it may be. So if you are going to tell me to consider another field or to wait a few years and retake the LSAT and apply, please do not waste your time.

If you read all of that and do not reply, I still thank you for your patience! Any input would be appreciated. Thanks and good luck to everybody else applying for next year…

florida1949
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby florida1949 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:38 pm

the reason people will tell you to retake or to consider another career path is because that's the most prudent advice. That's not to say that you won't 'make it' as a lawyer, but just given your GPA/LSAT and the schools you're likely to attend, law school is unlikely to be a good investment for you.

Yankees1404
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Yankees1404 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:45 pm

For sticker price at most schools, probably. But i appreciate your reply on the sole area of which I did not ask for any input. I have no undergrad debt. A few in state schools will enable me to live with my parents and not pay room and board. My parents are also paying for books and are willing to help out all they can with a few grand here and there for tuition. Rutgers-Newark is 20 minutes from my house and provides a great opportunity with in-state tuition. I am not going to get duped into paying 150k for a 2nd tier degree. But if i can get one for 50-75k, why not pursue something I'm so passionate about?

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franklyscarlet
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby franklyscarlet » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:52 pm

Yankees1404 wrote:For sticker price at most schools, probably. But i appreciate your reply on the sole area of which I did not ask for any input. I have no undergrad debt. A few in state schools will enable me to live with my parents and not pay room and board. My parents are also paying for books and are willing to help out all they can with a few grand here and there for tuition. Rutgers-Newark is 20 minutes from my house and provides a great opportunity with in-state tuition. I am not going to get duped into paying 150k for a 2nd tier degree. But if i can get one for 50-75k, why not pursue something I'm so passionate about?


Hi! Because newbies tend to get scared away by the fact that old TLS people (self included) can be somewhat jaded, a few friendly tips:

1) you'll get a lot more replies if your original post isn't quite so long.
2) If you give people crap for giving you responses that aren't exactly what you ask for, you'll get a lot of crap back. you can't dictate what people post.
3) living at home, no undergrad debt, etc are all really stellar positions to be in. However, the reason people will tell you to retake for a higher ranked school isn't the cost, it's the jobs. take a very, very close look at the employment stats for any school you're going to. Passion won't get you a job when you're at a school with abysmal hiring statistics. Law school is, when it comes down to it, a professional degree. The point is a job.

Hope that helps. Remember, snark is heavy on TLS but the message behind it is important.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:55 pm

You should not write an LSAT addendum. An LSAT addendum should be limited to something like, "I had broken my leg a week before the LSAT and was on pain medication the first time I took the test. I believe my latest score of 170 is more representative than the 155 I scored at that time."

Your focus at the moment should be killing the December LSAT. Do not aim for the low 160s--aim for at least the high 160s and try to get into the 170s.

With a GPA of 3.53, if you get an LSAT score in the high 150s / low 160s, you should strongly consider retaking again, even if that delays attending law school until next cycle. If you don't want to do that, I would consider your other options besides law school. If you do decide to do law school with those stats, I would 1) focus on limiting debt by attending a school with a significant scholarship without any grade or class rank stipulations, and 2) keep in mind that you might not get a legal job and if you do happen to get a legal job it will most likely pay around 40-60K. Attending a school in this range will mean you are very unlikely to land a firm that pays market (160K in most major markets, lower in secondary markets), and if you miss out on biglaw than you will most likely end up with something on the other side of the bimodal curve (which means 40-60K).

florida1949
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby florida1949 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:58 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:
Yankees1404 wrote:For sticker price at most schools, probably. But i appreciate your reply on the sole area of which I did not ask for any input. I have no undergrad debt. A few in state schools will enable me to live with my parents and not pay room and board. My parents are also paying for books and are willing to help out all they can with a few grand here and there for tuition. Rutgers-Newark is 20 minutes from my house and provides a great opportunity with in-state tuition. I am not going to get duped into paying 150k for a 2nd tier degree. But if i can get one for 50-75k, why not pursue something I'm so passionate about?


Hi! Because newbies tend to get scared away by the fact that old TLS people (self included) can be somewhat jaded, a few friendly tips:

1) you'll get a lot more replies if your original post isn't quite so long.
2) If you give people crap for giving you responses that aren't exactly what you ask for, you'll get a lot of crap back. you can't dictate what people post.
3) living at home, no undergrad debt, etc are all really stellar positions to be in. However, the reason people will tell you to retake for a higher ranked school isn't the cost, it's the jobs. take a very, very close look at the employment stats for any school you're going to. Passion won't get you a job when you're at a school with abysmal hiring statistics. Law school is, when it comes down to it, a professional degree. The point is a job.

Hope that helps. Remember, snark is heavy on TLS but the message behind it is important.


For instance, I put your LSAT/GPA in lawschoolnumbers. It seems the highest ranked school you have a good shot of getting into is Arizona State. Here are ASU's employment stats: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=asu.

64% employed upon graduation. and although LST did not provide salary distributions, i would imagine they aren't too great. (this is not to say that lower-ranked schools won't have better employment stats, but I'm just using ASU as an example)

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Yankees1404 wrote:For sticker price at most schools, probably. But i appreciate your reply on the sole area of which I did not ask for any input. I have no undergrad debt. A few in state schools will enable me to live with my parents and not pay room and board. My parents are also paying for books and are willing to help out all they can with a few grand here and there for tuition. Rutgers-Newark is 20 minutes from my house and provides a great opportunity with in-state tuition. I am not going to get duped into paying 150k for a 2nd tier degree. But if i can get one for 50-75k, why not pursue something I'm so passionate about?


Go for it if you 1) are able to a scholarship without any stipulations to Rutgers-Newark, 2) have no cost of living expenses, 3) go in with the expectation that you might not get a legal job at all (and thus, be wasting 3 years) and if you do get a legal job it will probably pay between 40-60K.

I'm not trying to be snarky. If you limit debt and go in with the right expectations (and you have decided that it is worth it ahead of time), then it's not a bad choice. The thing is that a lot of people attend schools like this at sticker (and even instate sticker is way too high) and then expect a 160K salary to pay off that debt afterwards. When the latter doesn't happen, it's a bad situation.

More info on Rutgets-Newark: http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=rutgers-newark

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franklyscarlet
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby franklyscarlet » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:13 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:Your focus at the moment should be killing the December LSAT. Do not aim for the low 160s--aim for at least the high 160s and try to get into the 170s.

With a GPA of 3.53, if you get an LSAT score in the high 150s / low 160s, you should strongly consider retaking again, .


Super credited. OP, I have that same GPA. a high 160s/170 will really open some doors for you. And, considering how stressed out I am at Northwestern as a 1L (where hiring stats are decent even at median), I really, truly don't recommend going into a situation where you know you have to be top 5-10% to get a job. It'll wreck your mental health once you're actually in law school and realize how arbitrary it is at that level.

Yankees1404
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Yankees1404 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:18 pm

Thank you to all 3 of you for your input. I did not mean to be snippy, I guess its frustrating for someone in my position. I do not need to make the big law market money, nor do I think that's gonna happen. But who's to say I may not finish top 5% at a tier 2 and have the opportunity? More realistically, finishing top 25% and getting a job at 60k annually is probably what I'm looking at. I don't think theres much else i can do to improve my LSAT. 160-164 is as high as i think i can go. I did not sleep at all whatsoever the night before October's LSAT because of nerves, is that more worthy of an LSAT addendum? I was unsure if being so candid about my anxiety for this exam would demonstrate an unforgivable weakness. Criminal Law has always been the area that's peeked my interest the most, so i am not attending law school with money as the motive. Obviously my goal is to limit the cost of attendance and be able to earn a decent living while paying off my 50-75k debt within 10-20 years. My parents have also been so encouraging as to say if I do well in LS and cannot find a job, they will sell our home in NJ and move to FL in a less expensive home and use some of that money to pay off any outstanding debt. My father is retiring in 3-7 years and the move was already on their agenda.

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ChikaBoom
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby ChikaBoom » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:24 pm

OP, it sounds like you have made up your mind. Financially, a 5-10% chance of having a decent legal career doesn't exactly warrant the expenditure of 50-75k in my opinion, but if that's what you have your heart set on then perhaps that will help to motivate you. That's your business, so I digress.

As far as your PS goes, write it and then post it in the PS section. I've seen a lot of good feedback given over there. It's how you write it that will count.

I wouldn't necessarily tell the adcomms that you aren't good at science as a means to explain your LSAT scores. It sounds like an excuse and would make me wonder if you're up to par with the level of reading comprehension this will require. You seem intelligent, why detract from what you have (numerically meh) by writing about your shortcomings?

Part of being a good writer or speaker is the ability to be succint. While I think writing the optional essays shows a certain dedication, if you write all of your addendums and essays with as much detail as you wrote this post, it seems like it will get old quick.

I don't see where telling each school that you're applying to 20 different schools will help you any. I'd leave it out unless for some reason they ask. Also, if Rutgers is so close and you can minimize debt there, why are you applying to 20 different schools? That's got to be expensive.

One recommendation that I have for you is to try and intern or work part time in some legal capacity so that you can make some connections. You'll need them.

Also: *piqued my interest (sorry, pet peeve)


ETA: your parents sound awesome. You are very lucky to have that type of support.

florida1949
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby florida1949 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:26 pm

Yankees1404 wrote:Thank you to all 3 of you for your input. I did not mean to be snippy, I guess its frustrating for someone in my position. I do not need to make the big law market money, nor do I think that's gonna happen. But who's to say I may not finish top 5% at a tier 2 and have the opportunity? More realistically, finishing top 25% and getting a job at 60k annually is probably what I'm looking at. I don't think theres much else i can do to improve my LSAT. 160-164 is as high as i think i can go. I did not sleep at all whatsoever the night before October's LSAT because of nerves, is that more worthy of an LSAT addendum? I was unsure if being so candid about my anxiety for this exam would demonstrate an unforgivable weakness. Criminal Law has always been the area that's peeked my interest the most, so i am not attending law school with money as the motive. Obviously my goal is to limit the cost of attendance and be able to earn a decent living while paying off my 50-75k debt within 10-20 years. My parents have also been so encouraging as to say if I do well in LS and cannot find a job, they will sell our home in NJ and move to FL in a less expensive home and use some of that money to pay off any outstanding debt. My father is retiring in 3-7 years and the move was already on their agenda.


The thing is you shouldn't be banking on something that you have (statistically) a 25% chance of achieving. Campos's advice is to take the bottom 10% and top 10% of law school class outcomes out of the equation (statistical outliers) and note the range of outcomes from 10%-90%. Are these outcomes acceptable to you?

Not to mention opportunity cost. If you start a career now, in three years you could, at minimum, be making low-to-mid five-figures and have no graduate school debt.

WhiskeynCoke
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby WhiskeynCoke » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:03 pm

That was a long post just to say you are a 3.53/156 retaking in December. Here are my thoughts:

- Knowledge of science has nothing to do with the LSAT. you missed those questions because of weaknesses in your reading comprehension. If you accept this fact and work on your RC, you will see more improvement than with excuses.

- Nothing in your story justifies any sort of addendum. skip it. Law schools will already see the upward trend from your transcript and only take your highest LSAT score. No medical/extraordinary problems = no addendum.

- Your PS topic sounds promising, but it is execution that matters. Pump out a draft and seek advice on the PS forum.

- Take as many PT's as you can before Dec and REVIEW YOUR MISTAKES. You must articulate both WHY you chose an incorrect answer choice and WHY you eliminated the correct answer choice. Eliminate your weaknesses. Take these tests in as realistic conditions as possible. 5 section (1 "exp" section, break apart older tests for this) tests only! Take 3 sections, 15 min break, last 2 sections. Make everything exactly like test day down to the time you start, your last bathroom break, your coffee intake and timing, etc.

Finally, my most important advice of all, which you apparently don't want to hear but are going to be told anyway.... IF YOU DONT IMPROVE, BE PREPARED TO SIT OUT THIS CYCLE. Others will already have articulated the reasons not pay full price (or any price) to attend the quality of school that would admit you with a 3.53/156. If you love the law and you ever want to be a lawyer, you should heed this advice that LITERALLY EVERYONE WILL TELL YOU. Would you rather wait ONE more year and become a lawyer, or start asap, accrue a 6 figure debt, and never practice law?

If you are truly passionate about the law, devote at least another 6 months to mastering the LSAT and reaching your personal peak. This 3 digit number is worth more than the 4 entire years (and thousands of dollars) of your undergrad. In fact, to most schools its worth more than entire rest of your application. It determines whether or not you ever get to practice law, even more so than you think.

That being said, the consensus about the legal market seems to be that the top 5-10% of students from T2s still have a shot at earning a very good living practicing law, and I have my sights set on achieving this, no matter how difficult it may be. So if you are going to tell me to consider another field or to wait a few years and retake the LSAT and apply, please do not waste your time.


this comment makes me think you don't understand how law school grading and a forced curve works. Your entire grade is determined by one single test, based on which you are ranked relative to the other students. If you cant rock a test now (the LSAT) what makes you think you'll be able to rock a test and score in the top 5-10% then, in law school? You have a 90-95% chance of not being in the top 5-10% of your class. However, unlike the LSAT When you get to that level, it's not a matter of being "difficult" but rather a matter being arbitrary. This would be like saying that winning the lottery is "difficult." A more appropriate word is "unlikely."

You obviously have some inkling of this in the back of your head, otherwise you wouldn't have made this post. However, if you just wanted to be patted on the back and be told everything is gonna be ok, it won't be from me. By all means, blindly rush to your doom if you must, but you've been warned.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:31 pm

Yankees1404 wrote:Thank you to all 3 of you for your input. I did not mean to be snippy, I guess its frustrating for someone in my position. I do not need to make the big law market money, nor do I think that's gonna happen. But who's to say I may not finish top 5% at a tier 2 and have the opportunity? More realistically, finishing top 25% and getting a job at 60k annually is probably what I'm looking at. I don't think theres much else i can do to improve my LSAT. 160-164 is as high as i think i can go. I did not sleep at all whatsoever the night before October's LSAT because of nerves, is that more worthy of an LSAT addendum? I was unsure if being so candid about my anxiety for this exam would demonstrate an unforgivable weakness. Criminal Law has always been the area that's peeked my interest the most, so i am not attending law school with money as the motive. Obviously my goal is to limit the cost of attendance and be able to earn a decent living while paying off my 50-75k debt within 10-20 years. My parents have also been so encouraging as to say if I do well in LS and cannot find a job, they will sell our home in NJ and move to FL in a less expensive home and use some of that money to pay off any outstanding debt. My father is retiring in 3-7 years and the move was already on their agenda.


Don't sell yourself short regarding the LSAT. I was able to improve 19 points (155-174) from my diagnostic. I've seen people improve 20-30+ points. The LSAT is an incredibly learnable test. Have the mindset of dominating the December test and devote as much time as necessary in order to do that. (And use this site as a resource for studying--it can be very helpful.)

Being up all night is also not a good topic for an addendum, sorry. Many people don't get much (or any) sleep before the LSAT and it's not worthwhile to mention (especially because it's something that could happen during law school finals too).

Your expectations seem to be in the right place. That doesn't mean you should try to slack on the LSAT though. Just a few points could be worth tens of thousands of dollars (or more). Also, if you're interested in doing criminal law work, I would skim through the following thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=155423
Last edited by Richie Tenenbaum on Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yankees1404
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Yankees1404 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:32 pm

How much can i honestly be expected to improve, though, realistically? I have absolutely reached my maximum potential with the analytical section. With logical reasoning, on over 25 PTs, i have always fallen somewhere between 34-39 correct responses out of the 50/51. Reading varies, some days 15, a good day maybe 20, typically 17-18. What could I do for the next year to improve, before, say June 13 or Oct 13's LSAT? Read for hours everyday? I just don't know if its realistic to think i can do much better than low 160s, unless any of you have had an evolution of progress on the lsat similar to mine

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franklyscarlet
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby franklyscarlet » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:41 pm

Yankees1404 wrote:How much can i honestly be expected to improve, though, realistically? I have absolutely reached my maximum potential with the analytical section. With logical reasoning, on over 25 PTs, i have always fallen somewhere between 34-39 correct responses out of the 50/51. Reading varies, some days 15, a good day maybe 20, typically 17-18. What could I do for the next year to improve, before, say June 13 or Oct 13's LSAT? Read for hours everyday? I just don't know if its realistic to think i can do much better than low 160s, unless any of you have had an evolution of progress on the lsat similar to mine


without knowing how you're studying, none of us can really answer this. That being said, odds are high you can improve your score following one of the study plans on here (pithypike, noodleyone).

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:43 pm

Yankees1404 wrote:How much can i honestly be expected to improve, though, realistically? I have absolutely reached my maximum potential with the analytical section. With logical reasoning, on over 25 PTs, i have always fallen somewhere between 34-39 correct responses out of the 50/51. Reading varies, some days 15, a good day maybe 20, typically 17-18. What could I do for the next year to improve, before, say June 13 or Oct 13's LSAT? Read for hours everyday? I just don't know if its realistic to think i can do much better than low 160s, unless any of you have had an evolution of progress on the lsat similar to mine


Start a new thread for this (or better yet, search for past threads on these topics) and hang out in the threads done by current LSAT tutors/teachers, but here's some basic advice I would give LSAT students I taught/tutored:

-You really need to focus on accuracy for logical reasoning. Take sections of LR with a timer going but don't stop at 35 minutes--rather, try to focus on getting every single question correct, no matter how long it takes. Then after you finish, review every single question. Focus on the questions you weren't 100% sure about and the ones you got wrong. Try to figure out why every single answer choice but the correct one was wrong.

-Once you are making big improvements in accuracy, start focusing on timing. I prefer a phased out method when doing work on individual sections (start at something like 50 minutes, move to 45 minutes, 40 minutes then 35). But there are different ways to do this.

-Reading comp. is a little harder to do. Try to work on individual passages. Try to go as fast as possible but with being as accurate as possible. Time yourself and just do one passage at a time. If you are being inaccurate, slow down. If you are being pretty accurate, force yourself to speed up. I did this one both games and RC. I would do individual passages/games and just write how long each took me in the upper right hand corner.

Yankees1404
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Yankees1404 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:26 pm

Thank you for all of your input. Honestly, my main course of study was doing PT/diganostics...i certainly studied a lot with the analytical section, but i never formally studied Logical reasoning or reading comprehension. Nor did i ever really review tests for what I had gotten wrong, except the logic games. It seems as though my method of preparation was very flawed. I am going to pass on the December LSAT and take the June LSAT. Taking a later test will be beneficial to a person with sleep apnea as well, and you have all encouraged me to feel as though with a different plan of action it is not unrealistic for me to reach the high 160s. The three letters that are an LSAT score appear too important to settle on anything less than your absolute and 100% best. I am going to try the method of untimed testing for mastery and try to eventually sharpen my speed. To say i need a few drinks after realizing I'll have another boring year at home is an understatement, but it appears that its the wisest decision for my future.

Yankees1404
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Yankees1404 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:29 pm

Also, seeing how drastic my improvement on the logic games has been, I guess its realistic to hope for improvement on the other two sections with focused study and a different approach, rather than taking 3 PTs a week without examining them. One last question...is it useless to take a prep test twice? I realize it ruins some of the novelty element of an LSAT, but does it hurt?

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JCFindley
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby JCFindley » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:30 pm

Yankees1404 wrote:Thank you for all of your input. Honestly, my main course of study was doing PT/diganostics...i certainly studied a lot with the analytical section, but i never formally studied Logical reasoning or reading comprehension. Nor did i ever really review tests for what I had gotten wrong, except the logic games. It seems as though my method of preparation was very flawed. I am going to pass on the December LSAT and take the June LSAT. Taking a later test will be beneficial to a person with sleep apnea as well, and you have all encouraged me to feel as though with a different plan of action it is not unrealistic for me to reach the high 160s. The three letters that are an LSAT score appear too important to settle on anything less than your absolute and 100% best. I am going to try the method of untimed testing for mastery and try to eventually sharpen my speed. To say i need a few drinks after realizing I'll have another boring year at home is an understatement, but it appears that its the wisest decision for my future.


Think of it this way, you are likely paying yourself between 100 and 150K for that year. That's almost biglaw money right there.

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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Yankees1404 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:36 pm

Its getting rather miserable being the loser living at home with my parents, but swallowing my pride for a six figure gain seems to be the best course of action. After getting obliterated tonight since I have derailed my plans and will have to answer countless questions from peers/friends, I am going to re-dedicate myself on Monday with a different approach and a refuse to lose attitude. I should have researched more how to prep, I am weary of my prospects about improving RC drastically, but I think LR is more than realistic to improve from solid to outstanding with a renewed approach

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franklyscarlet
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby franklyscarlet » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:39 pm

Yankees1404 wrote:Its getting rather miserable being the loser living at home with my parents, but swallowing my pride for a six figure gain seems to be the best course of action. After getting obliterated tonight since I have derailed my plans and will have to answer countless questions from peers/friends, I am going to re-dedicate myself on Monday with a different approach and a refuse to lose attitude. I should have researched more how to prep, I am weary of my prospects about improving RC drastically, but I think LR is more than realistic to improve from solid to outstanding with a renewed approach


Honestly, you should be proud of yourself. A lot of people don't make this realization. You're making good choices here. As for living with the parents, meh. Better now than in 20 years because you still can't afford to live on your own.

Soldier on, yankee. we're rooting for ya.

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JCFindley
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby JCFindley » Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:46 pm

franklyscarlet wrote:
Honestly, you should be proud of yourself. A lot of people don't make this realization. You're making good choices here. As for living with the parents, meh. Better now than in 20 years because you still can't afford to live on your own.

Soldier on, yankee. we're rooting for ya.


It doesn't get any truer than this!

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annet
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby annet » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:05 pm

Yankees1404 wrote:Its getting rather miserable being the loser living at home with my parents, but swallowing my pride for a six figure gain seems to be the best course of action. After getting obliterated tonight since I have derailed my plans and will have to answer countless questions from peers/friends, I am going to re-dedicate myself on Monday with a different approach and a refuse to lose attitude. I should have researched more how to prep, I am weary of my prospects about improving RC drastically, but I think LR is more than realistic to improve from solid to outstanding with a renewed approach


You still haven't mentioned what prep materials you're using, but come join us on the LSAT study board. There are a lot of different study suggestions to fit different schedules (some people can study for the test full time, others are working full-time jobs and studying when they can). People also won't force you to take an expensive prep class or anything like that. A lot of it is just sharing what books and study techniques are best. I just picked up a new book for my Dec retake because another user recommended it and I'm already seeing some gains.

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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Yankees1404 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:10 pm

That's because honestly i just studied via practice tests. I studied the shit out the logic games and am more than pleased with the 20/23 i got on that in October. After doing the modern era games over and over and over i finally started making the connections in a time efficient manner. I also supplemented repetition with using course books. But i have done nothing really for LR and RC. I will make my way on over to the study section of the site on Monday. I have plenty of books to use, and plan to start with Manhattan LSAT's for both since i got the most out of their analytical book compared to others....I'm beginning to realize how flawed my approach was. A cheap course was offered at my school and the old bastard made us all feel as though a 10 point gain would be incredible and any more than that was crazy. And i've already gained 12 points from my first cold diagnostic to my October LSAT. I wanna see if i can get 8-12 more, and serious scholarships at my tier 2s or maybe consideration at some Top 30 schools.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: A handful of questions

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:14 pm

Yankees1404 wrote:Also, seeing how drastic my improvement on the logic games has been, I guess its realistic to hope for improvement on the other two sections with focused study and a different approach, rather than taking 3 PTs a week without examining them. One last question...is it useless to take a prep test twice? I realize it ruins some of the novelty element of an LSAT, but does it hurt?


There's diminishing returns for redoing the same questions, but I did it when I was prepping and I tutored students who did it. I think for games, there is the biggest returns. For logical reasoning and reading comprehension it depends on how well you remember the question. (Though, it still is very helpful if you force yourself to explain why every single wrong answer is wrong while doing it--that way, even if you remember which answer is the right answer you are forcing yourself to eliminate the wrong answers.)

Best of luck, I think you're making a good decision by holding off until June.




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