Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

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lawschool111
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Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby lawschool111 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:44 am

A lot of people seem to be caught up in Law School rankings but how much do rankings really mean?

Take for example, Santa Clara University. They are ranked 96th (which is nothing to really boast about) by U.S. News BUT Forbes lists them as top 13 law schools for getting rich. Santa Clara University is located in the Silicon Valley and most of the graduates remain in California to practice law after they graduate, which helps when it comes networking. Mid career pay is $188,000 which is up there with UCLA, Georgetown, Chicago, Berkeley and the top ranked law schools.

I am a California Native, and plan on studying law in California upon graduation. Up until now, I was adamant about going to the highest ranked law school as possible but does it really matter?

When it comes to California I am now considering Santa Clara over USC, LMU, Hastings, Davis, Pepperdine except for UCLA and UC Berkeley.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:49 am

This is a subject which has never been discussed before on TLS. Using the search function would have shown absolutely no results that would answer this question.

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jump_man
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby jump_man » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:00 am

lawschool111 wrote:I am now considering Santa Clara over USC


Let me know how that works out for.

Did you know that Santa Clara was ranked as having the highest "underemployment" score among all law schools?

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NewLobo
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby NewLobo » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:00 am

You should totally do it brah!

lawschool111
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby lawschool111 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:05 am

jump_man wrote:
lawschool111 wrote:I am now considering Santa Clara over USC


Let me know how that works out for.

Did you know that Santa Clara was ranked as having the highest "underemployment" score among all law schools?



Provide me with a link, and then i'll believe you. At SCU, 83% of graduates have work 9 months after graduation whereas USC is 82%. Also, the mid-career salary pay is higher for Santa Clara than USC.

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Scotchandsoda
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby Scotchandsoda » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:08 am

lawschool111 wrote:
jump_man wrote:
lawschool111 wrote:I am now considering Santa Clara over USC


Let me know how that works out for.

Did you know that Santa Clara was ranked as having the highest "underemployment" score among all law schools?



Provide me with a link, and then i'll believe you. At SCU, 83% of graduates have work 9 months after graduation whereas USC is 82%. Also, the mid-career salary pay is higher for Santa Clara than USC.


Troll. Or an idiot.

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:08 am

lawschool111 wrote:
jump_man wrote:
lawschool111 wrote:I am now considering Santa Clara over USC


Let me know how that works out for.

Did you know that Santa Clara was ranked as having the highest "underemployment" score among all law schools?



Provide me with a link, and then i'll believe you. At SCU, 83% of graduates have work 9 months after graduation whereas USC is 82%. Also, the mid-career salary pay is higher for Santa Clara than USC.

You seem like a dumb who deserves misinformation. However, for any good people who may accidentally stumble upon this thread in the future:

USC: 63.8% Good, fulltime legal work (and a 34% large-firm score)

SCU: 41% fulltime legal employment, 9% large-firm.

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jump_man
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby jump_man » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:22 am

lawschool111 wrote:
jump_man wrote:
lawschool111 wrote:I am now considering Santa Clara over USC


Let me know how that works out for.

Did you know that Santa Clara was ranked as having the highest "underemployment" score among all law schools?



Provide me with a link, and then i'll believe you. At SCU, 83% of graduates have work 9 months after graduation whereas USC is 82%. Also, the mid-career salary pay is higher for Santa Clara than USC.


Dude, it's called a hyperlink - just click on the blue colored text. But just in case, here's the URL:
http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/wo ... stics.html

lawschool111
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby lawschool111 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:25 am

alwayssunnyinfl wrote:
lawschool111 wrote:
jump_man wrote:
lawschool111 wrote:I am now considering Santa Clara over USC


Let me know how that works out for.

Did you know that Santa Clara was ranked as having the highest "underemployment" score among all law schools?



Provide me with a link, and then i'll believe you. At SCU, 83% of graduates have work 9 months after graduation whereas USC is 82%. Also, the mid-career salary pay is higher for Santa Clara than USC.

You seem like a dumb who deserves misinformation. However, for any good people who may accidentally stumble upon this thread in the future:

USC: 63.8% Good, fulltime legal work (and a 34% large-firm score)

SCU: 41% fulltime legal employment, 9% large-firm.


Location is important idiot. For anyone who wants to study law outside of California, Santa Clara wouldn't be a good choice. I think that goes without saying. Employment statistics in California for USC and SCU are very close, 68% vs 61%. Mid-career pay for Santa Clara graduates are higher than USC grads. Read the Forbes Report.

lawschool111
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby lawschool111 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:30 am

jump_man wrote:
lawschool111 wrote:
jump_man wrote:
lawschool111 wrote:I am now considering Santa Clara over USC


Let me know how that works out for.

Did you know that Santa Clara was ranked as having the highest "underemployment" score among all law schools?



Provide me with a link, and then i'll believe you. At SCU, 83% of graduates have work 9 months after graduation whereas USC is 82%. Also, the mid-career salary pay is higher for Santa Clara than USC.


Dude, it's called a hyperlink - just click on the blue colored text. But just in case, here's the URL:
http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/wo ... stics.html


thanks. i wasn't able to click on the hyperlink earlier. can you really trust this source though? the link the other guy provided has different numbers, stating that 61% of santa clara graduates are employed in California

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:31 am

lawschool111 wrote:
Location is important idiot. For anyone who wants to study law outside of California, Santa Clara wouldn't be a good choice. I think that goes without saying. Employment statistics in California for USC and SCU are very close, 68% vs 61%. Mid-career pay for Santa Clara graduates are higher than USC grads. Read the Forbes Report.

This economy is much different than even just five years ago. Also, USNWR isn't why people think USC is better than SCU on the whole. Could you link to this report? Because the only thing I can find is a broken link from a "View in Pictures" fluff piece by Forbes. It all depends on how many people are reporting.

And as far as info we do have, based on the 46% of the class who both had private sector jobs and reported their salary, USC had a median of 160k starting salary for grads, with a 25th percentile of 135k. With only 25% of their class getting private sector jobs and reporting, SCU's median is 94k, with a 25th percentile of 63k and 75th of 160k. Maybe you could argue that SCU grads aren't self-reporting because they're ashamed of their higher salaries, but I find that claim dubious.

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jump_man
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby jump_man » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 am

lawschool111 wrote:thanks. i wasn't able to click on the hyperlink earlier. can you really trust this source though? the link the other guy provided has different numbers, stating that 61% of santa clara graduates are employed in California


Yes, the source is very reliable. However, if you have any doubt, check out these statistics:

Santa Clara's own website admits that only 52% of grads from the class of 2011 had a job that required they pass the bar (in layman's terms, that means that only 52% of grads found jobs as lawyers) - http://law.scu.edu/careers/employment-data-2011.cfm

In contrast, USC's own website claims that 88% of grads from the class of 2011 had a job that required they pass the bar - http://weblaw.usc.edu/careers/statistics/

You should also check out this excellent resource when making your decision - they do an excellent job providing a comprehensive analysis of employment stats: http://www.lstscorereports.com/

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Ludo!
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby Ludo! » Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:47 am

Lol at going to any law school to get rich but Santa Clara?? Jesus Christ dude.

127 full time long term legal jobs out of 296 students in the class of 2011. Only 27 of those were in BigLaw firms.

http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/

WhiskeynCoke
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby WhiskeynCoke » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:07 am

Come attend Santa Clara, where you can pay $240,000 for a 40% chance of becoming a lawyer!

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=santaclara

Dude, Santa Clara doesn't even come close to comparing to USC/UCLA. Your information is either outdated, wrong, or being misinterpreted (by you). Do your research.

guinness1547
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby guinness1547 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:27 am

This was fun. Thanks guys!

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PDaddy
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby PDaddy » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:33 am

Rankings do matter, but only because we say so. :wink:

Total Litigator
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby Total Litigator » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:48 am

I know the Forbes study you are referring to, and it is complete shit, and a statistical error ridden nightmare. Pay no heed to it.

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DildaMan
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby DildaMan » Wed Nov 07, 2012 4:58 am

Santa Clara pumps out a lot of patent attorneys, who generally have an easier time finding employment. I don't think they place very well outside of that niche.

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jump_man
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby jump_man » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:25 am

Since we are having fun with rankings, we should also mention this masterpiece:
http://www.cooley.edu/rankings/overall2010.html

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banjo
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby banjo » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:12 am

You can get a lot of the recent data directly from the ABA: http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/. On first glance, it seems like Santa Clara is a pretty terrible law school -- worse than USC. If you believe that your Forbes picture list is sufficiently robust to overcome the clear implications of the ABA data, I guess go for it?

skri65
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby skri65 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:33 am

IMO, rankings do not matter. However, employment statistics do matter, and they are very much correlated with rankings.

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JCFindley
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby JCFindley » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:45 am

skri65 wrote:IMO, rankings do not matter. However, employment statistics do matter, and they are very much correlated with rankings.

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cinephile
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby cinephile » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:14 pm

I don't get it. You asked a question, but when people responded you attacked them. Why ask if you've already made up your mind? It's your money and your life, if you want to waste it go ahead but don't look to others for support to support a bad decision.

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Br3v
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby Br3v » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:21 pm

rankings matter in the sense that employers tend to hire from the best schools. How do you determine the best schools? Primarily it is from which school shave the "best" (read: highest numbers) students. How to schools get the "best" students? Because students look at the rankings.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Do law school rankings REALLY matter?

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:00 pm

skri65 wrote:IMO, rankings do not matter. However, employment statistics do matter, and they are very much correlated with rankings.


This is not true. http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=guides&show=13




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