The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

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megagnarley
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby megagnarley » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:41 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
megagnarley wrote:One question though. If for some reason I retake and get the same, is it still worth applying this same cycle?

I think so. Like I said before, you can always re-apply if things really go poorly. As it stands a 169 is a good score that will almost certainly get you some T-14 acceptances regardless of when you apply.

If you aren't thrilled with your December score you can also consider a June retake to get off of waitlists and/or increase scholarship leverage.


Useful info. Thank you for your input.

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dingbat
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby dingbat » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:31 pm

I got the school I wanted and the scholarship I wanted and I still regret not retaking when I could have gotten 2-3 more points

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:51 pm

I'm just here to second Tiago wholeheartedly. RETAKE, it will be worth it.

WhiskeynCoke
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby WhiskeynCoke » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:07 pm

Well yes, it can. It means I'd have to wait another year. No way do you submit in Jan...too late in the cycle


Do a little research on last year's cycle. Many schools were blindsided by the drop in applicants (over half of T14) and extended their deadlines by months in a scramble to maintain medians/class sizes. Quite a few people got into Harvard in June-July. LSAC predicts this cycle to be down by even more (I think they estimate around -13%).

I think its very reasonable to suggest that 2 LSAT points will VASTLY OUTWEIGH 2 months, especially this cycle and especially since it will put you above ALOT of T14 medians (for example, 171 is suspected to be NYU's new median, though it hasn't yet been released, only 75th/25ths) Don't underestimate the drive to maintain medians. Admissions officer's jobs depend on it.

I say hold off the apps and retake. Do at least 2 or 3 PT's per week until Dec, review the hell out of that shit, and profit.

Worst case scenario: you don't improve and submit your 169 in Jan. Schools only care about your highest score anyway so you haven't lost much, for the above stated reasons.

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megagnarley
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby megagnarley » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:28 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:I'm just here to second Tiago wholeheartedly. RETAKE, it will be worth it.


Are you also under the opinion that if I score the same, 169, I should still apply in Jan?

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:31 pm

megagnarley wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:I'm just here to second Tiago wholeheartedly. RETAKE, it will be worth it.


Are you also under the opinion that if I score the same, 169, I should still apply in Jan?

I mean, if you REALLY want to apply this cycle then sure...but if you do score in the 160s again (and even if you score in the 170s), your best shot at a good school is going to be if you apply next cycle as early as possible. A January application will hurt your chances.

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dingbat
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby dingbat » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:46 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:I'm just here to second Tiago wholeheartedly. RETAKE, it will be worth it.


Are you also under the opinion that if I score the same, 169, I should still apply in Jan?

I mean, if you REALLY want to apply this cycle then sure...but if you do score in the 160s again (and even if you score in the 170s), your best shot at a good school is going to be if you apply next cycle as early as possible. A January application will hurt your chances.

I disagree strongly with this. I applied in October. One school did not give me a decision until May, while another waitlisted me at that time and gave a final decision in August. If you're clearly in or out, you'll be accepted/rejected fairly quickly bu If you're borderline, they're gonna sit on your app until they know how the class shapes up. In the current (low applicant) environment there's no reason to apply early

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Sun Nov 04, 2012 3:52 pm

dingbat wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
megagnarley wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:I'm just here to second Tiago wholeheartedly. RETAKE, it will be worth it.


Are you also under the opinion that if I score the same, 169, I should still apply in Jan?

I mean, if you REALLY want to apply this cycle then sure...but if you do score in the 160s again (and even if you score in the 170s), your best shot at a good school is going to be if you apply next cycle as early as possible. A January application will hurt your chances.

I disagree strongly with this. I applied in October. One school did not give me a decision until May, while another waitlisted me at that time and gave a final decision in August. If you're clearly in or out, you'll be accepted/rejected fairly quickly bu If you're borderline, they're gonna sit on your app until they know how the class shapes up. In the current (low applicant) environment there's no reason to apply early

This is just silly. When adcomms view your application when the whole class is empty, they're more likely to view you favorably compared to when they look at your application when the class is 80% full. Yes, if you are borderline you will be waitlisted, but just because that happens doesn't mean that applying 3-4 months later won't hurt you at all.

If we're talking anecdotes (which dingbat is), let me toss this one out there:

I have a friend who has the same LSAT score as me (176). His GPA is over half an entire GPA point above mine (2.8 vs. 3.4). I applied in late October/early November. He applied in January. I got into 3 T14s, with money. He got into 1 T14 for sticker price, off the WL in June (I got into the same T14 RD in December and had a scholly offer by February). We now go to the same school. He pays more than me.

HALF AN ENTIRE GPA POINT and yet my cycle was wildly better than his. I don't have amazing softs, or stellar reccs (only one was academic), or an awesome PS. The difference is that I busted my balls and applied ASAP and he didn't apply until most of the T14s had filled their classes already.

In any case, it's all anecdotal, but do you really want to risk it? Don't be dense, do EVERYTHING YOU CAN to give yourself the best cycle possible.

ETA: the more I read dingbats post the more ridiculous I realize the logic is. "YOU MIGHT GET WAITLISTED AT SCHOOLS WHERE YOU ARE BORDERLINE SO DON'T BOTHER APPLYING EARLY LULZ." How does that even make sense? You are giving this person awful advice.

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SemperLegal
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby SemperLegal » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:00 pm

I was in your situation, I applied and planned to retake the test, with the understanding that if I picked up 3-4 points I would withdraw and try again the next year.

I ended up not retaking due to external circumstances, but no one held my reapplication against me. I ended up having to eat the application costs and one deposit, but it was worth it for the funding that I picked up.

If you do this, however, be extremely honest with admissions, tell them why you are withdrawing. You don't want them to feel like you are pulling a fast one.

ETA: My extra year off was one of the best decisions of my life, so I think the question of what you would do for the year is extremely important as well.

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dingbat
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby dingbat » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:06 pm

Applying early is better than late, of course. But if op thinks s/he can get another 3 points on the LSAT, that's worth delaying an application by a few months. A 172 in January opens more doors than a 169 in November

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:13 pm

dingbat wrote:Applying early is better than late, of course. But if op thinks s/he can get another 3 points on the LSAT, that's worth delaying an application by a few months. A 172 in January opens more doors than a 169 in November

...I'm not sure you understood anything I posted. I STRONGLY recommended a retake. Then the poster asked if (s)he should apply this cycle if he retakes and gets the same score again, and I said only if he's insistent on applying this cycle - if not, he should consider applying next cycle to get the benefit of an early application.

I'm certainly not telling him to apply right now. Reading comprehension, bro.

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megagnarley
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby megagnarley » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:13 pm

dingbat wrote:Applying early is better than late, of course. But if op thinks s/he can get another 3 points on the LSAT, that's worth delaying an application by a few months. A 172 in January opens more doors than a 169 in November


I'd been viewing it this way: Oct 169 roughly equal to Dec 171 because of the timing of the cycle. I guess that means if you don't hit the 172 mark and go the retake route you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Seems risky given the variables of test day...

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:15 pm

megagnarley wrote:I'd been viewing it this way: Oct 169 roughly equal to Dec 171 because of the timing of the cycle.

You could put up a poll, but 90% of TLSers will tell you this is wrong. A January app with a 171 is a lot better than a September app with a 169.

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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby smaug_ » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:16 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:In any case, it's all anecdotal, but do you really want to risk it? Don't be dense, do EVERYTHING YOU CAN to give yourself the best cycle possible.

ETA: the more I read dingbats post the more ridiculous I realize the logic is. "YOU MIGHT GET WAITLISTED AT SCHOOLS WHERE YOU ARE BORDERLINE SO DON'T BOTHER APPLYING EARLY LULZ." How does that even make sense? You are giving this person awful advice.


This is good reasoning, imho. That said, your friend who ended up at the same school as you had a poor cycles, crumps.

It is almost always worth retaking for someone with a 169. Depending on your cycle, it might make sense to wait a year.

Just retake it.

ETA: A 171 in January is better than a Sept. app with a 169. A 173 or higher in January is so much better you're foolish to throw away a shot at it.

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megagnarley
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby megagnarley » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:22 pm

hibiki wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:In any case, it's all anecdotal, but do you really want to risk it? Don't be dense, do EVERYTHING YOU CAN to give yourself the best cycle possible.

ETA: the more I read dingbats post the more ridiculous I realize the logic is. "YOU MIGHT GET WAITLISTED AT SCHOOLS WHERE YOU ARE BORDERLINE SO DON'T BOTHER APPLYING EARLY LULZ." How does that even make sense? You are giving this person awful advice.


This is good reasoning, imho. That said, your friend who ended up at the same school as you had a poor cycles, crumps.

It is almost always worth retaking for someone with a 169. Depending on your cycle, it might make sense to wait a year.

Just retake it.

ETA: A 171 in January is better than a Sept. app with a 169. A 173 or higher in January is so much better you're foolish to throw away a shot at it.


Valid. Looks like this is consensus.

Edit: Just can't afford to wait a year so I hope I don't miss my mark.

gauchobetch
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby gauchobetch » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:45 pm

I am having the same dilemma.. 168 on the actual test but on practice tests i was scoring mid to high 170s without fail. retaking seems miserable but i just want the best chances.. ugh. is it be possible to send in applications now with current score and then send something in come january with the new score?

lutcf2021
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby lutcf2021 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:58 am

As it stands now, you have a shot at Cooley.


Sigh. why must I troll so much. :/

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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby JWalker » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:58 pm

Retake. 170+ and it'll be a whole different world.

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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby giantwhale3798 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:54 pm

megagnarley wrote:
justonemoregame wrote:You could go ahead and apply this round - maybe shorten your list to just a handful of places you would seriously consider attending. See how the financial aid shakes out, and if you're not happy at the end of the day, you could hold off. I know you may not want to drop the $ on app fees, but maybe you can get waivers with those numbers.

One thing though, with a 3.6, a 170 may not change the picture too much - I know from experience. Cornell or Michigan may be just as good to you as UVA, and UCLA/USC may not bump your aid package since you're already above median.


Very helpful. Thanks for your input.

I guess at the end of the day it may be a matter of whether or not the value of CCN or other top 10's is worth waiting an extra year since there is pretty much no shot with a 169.

In any case, didn't mean to turn this into a selfish "what are my chances thread." Just wondering how others would view taking an extra year and trying again as opposed to applying with such borderline numbers.

It is only a psychological effect with yourself, besides since the number of people taking LSATs is getting smaller and smaller, high scores are rarer too. A 169 is identical to 170+.

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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby francesfarmer » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:35 am

thelawyler wrote:
2014 wrote:I don't think I've ever heard anyone on this site advocate applying early vs retaking. The answer is ALWAYS to retake if the option is available and you feel like you left points on the table.

170+s are exceedingly rare and schools need them to maintain medians. Retake and evaluate your options in January and if you have to wait a year because you think it's too late and a waste of money then so be it. Law school will still be there. Getting stuck at UCLA at sticker when you could be at a T13 with money would reduce your chances of success by a ton.


I retook at 169 and it was the best decision of my life. You've got nothing to lose man.

I retook at 170 and only went up two points and those four months of studying 3 hours a day were 100% worth it. DO IT.

jojo0508
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby jojo0508 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:53 pm

Yes. Same here.
I got 169 on Oct2012, while I got 172~175 for most of my PTs.
In my case, I prepared all app materials before, got the score, was shocked with 169, went berserk and just submitted all of them.
However, after several days passed, I am considering hold those apps and retake on December.

QUESTION.
1.Can I still hold apps even after my status is COMPLETE or UNDER REVIEW?
2.Can I hold just apps for T14 or so and let it go for rest of apps? I think I still have certain chance for them and want to have peace of mind by getting admitted to at least one. My question is when I register for December test, will LSAC update my report and report to all schools that I have applied?

Ha, 169 is really painful score, by the way.

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francesfarmer
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby francesfarmer » Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:22 pm

gauchobetch wrote:I am having the same dilemma.. 168 on the actual test but on practice tests i was scoring mid to high 170s without fail. retaking seems miserable but i just want the best chances.. ugh. is it be possible to send in applications now with current score and then send something in come january with the new score?

Do you have any reason not to sit out a cycle? As some other people on this thread have said, taking time off is not only good because you can apply early next cycle--it also gives you more time to work/be an adult/party/etc.

You can definitely tell them to hold your application until your LSAT score comes out.

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risa
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby risa » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:57 pm

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Last edited by risa on Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dingbat
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby dingbat » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:02 pm

francesfarmer wrote:
gauchobetch wrote:I am having the same dilemma.. 168 on the actual test but on practice tests i was scoring mid to high 170s without fail. retaking seems miserable but i just want the best chances.. ugh. is it be possible to send in applications now with current score and then send something in come january with the new score?

Do you have any reason not to sit out a cycle? As some other people on this thread have said, taking time off is not only good because you can apply early next cycle--it also gives you more time to work/be an adult/party/etc.

You can definitely tell them to hold your application until your LSAT score comes out.

screw sitting out a cycle. Take the February test

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: The most painful score: 169. Retake or let it ride?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:11 pm

dingbat wrote:
francesfarmer wrote:
gauchobetch wrote:I am having the same dilemma.. 168 on the actual test but on practice tests i was scoring mid to high 170s without fail. retaking seems miserable but i just want the best chances.. ugh. is it be possible to send in applications now with current score and then send something in come january with the new score?

Do you have any reason not to sit out a cycle? As some other people on this thread have said, taking time off is not only good because you can apply early next cycle--it also gives you more time to work/be an adult/party/etc.

You can definitely tell them to hold your application until your LSAT score comes out.

screw sitting out a cycle. Take the February test

You post the worst advice, seriously. The February test for this cycle? Really?




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