How does C&F factor into admissions?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
tabula rasa
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:16 pm

How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby tabula rasa » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:04 pm

This is just my curiosity at work here, since I don't have any C&F issues to speak of. How do adcoms take C&F issues into consideration when they make decisions?

I've always thought of it like this—either your C&F issues are not severe enough to have an effect on your decision one way or another, or they are severe enough to cause respectable schools to discard your application, regardless of what your numbers are. You could have a 4.0/180 or 3.0/160 and Tier 1 schools would all ding them just the same. Good C&F standing is just a yes/no prerequisite to admission.

But perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe the effect is a linear one—such that applicants with identical C&F issues with have different outcomes depending on their numbers.

Let's say an applicant fucked up and plagiarized a paper their freshman year of UG. Definitely a red flag for most adcoms, but not a felony. The applicant applies to a school with 3.7/167 medians and beats both of the medians. Would the school admit the applicant if he had a 3.9/178, but ding him if he had a 3.75/169? Does the C&F issue do nothing except arbitrarily raise the theoretical GPA/LSAT floor for the applicant? I'm assuming the applicant's demonstration of remorse (or, alternatively, recalcitrance) is the same for both pairs of numbers.

Independently, let's take YHSCCN, where they have the luxury of cherry picking their students. Is there a lower threshold for C&F influencing a decision as compared to, say, the bottom of the T14? I could definitely see schools with piles of 3.9/175s ranking applicants with small but notable (i.e. not traffic ticket) C&F issues behind all peer applicants with the same or slightly lower numbers. Not so much at GULC or Cornell.

Thoughts?

User avatar
Yardbird
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby Yardbird » Sun Sep 02, 2012 2:13 pm

tabula rasa wrote:This is just my curiosity at work here, since I don't have any C&F issues to speak of. How do adcoms take C&F issues into consideration when they make decisions?

I've always thought of it like this—either your C&F issues are not severe enough to have an effect on your decision one way or another, or they are severe enough to cause respectable schools to discard your application, regardless of what your numbers are. You could have a 4.0/180 or 3.0/160 and Tier 1 schools would all ding them just the same. Good C&F standing is just a yes/no prerequisite to admission.

But perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe the effect is a linear one—such that applicants with identical C&F issues with have different outcomes depending on their numbers.

Let's say an applicant fucked up and plagiarized a paper their freshman year of UG. Definitely a red flag for most adcoms, but not a felony. The applicant applies to a school with 3.7/167 medians and beats both of the medians. Would the school admit the applicant if he had a 3.9/178, but ding him if he had a 3.75/169? Does the C&F issue do nothing except arbitrarily raise the theoretical GPA/LSAT floor for the applicant? I'm assuming the applicant's demonstration of remorse (or, alternatively, recalcitrance) is the same for both pairs of numbers.

Independently, let's take YHSCCN, where they have the luxury of cherry picking their students. Is there a lower threshold for C&F influencing a decision as compared to, say, the bottom of the T14? I could definitely see schools with piles of 3.9/175s ranking applicants with small but notable (i.e. not traffic ticket) C&F issues behind all peer applicants with the same or slightly lower numbers. Not so much at GULC or Cornell.

Thoughts?
They will take a hit on their LSAT/GPA medians to preserve their BAR acceptance/pass rates. C&F is very important for this reason so the schools can gauge whether you will be able to take and be admitted to the BAR.

anon123
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby anon123 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 5:50 pm

.
Last edited by anon123 on Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby Ti Malice » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:22 pm

anon123 wrote:Interested in this too. 3.9x/ 175+ applicant and a lot of volunteer work with C&F issue that is 5 years old, when I was 14-15. No conviction, no formal charges and it is considered very minor since I was young. I called the notoriously tough Bars and they all said it poses actually zero threat. Hoping it doesn't effect admissions decisions since most T-14s require disclosure.. we'll see..


You'll be fine.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby IAFG » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:27 pm

I wonder if it would hurt an applicant for scholly money, when no one is going to be particularly desperate to have you, but quite a few schools would want your numbers.

DoctorShawHi
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:04 pm

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby DoctorShawHi » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:33 pm

it factors quite a bit. i know someone who was denied this past cycle from a lot of schools that he was above median for.


its such a shame. really bright guy. i dont understand why someone should be blackballed from being a lawyer because of a few mistakes in his past. character and fitness is ridiculously pretentious.

User avatar
JamMasterJ
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:35 pm

completely unpredictable

User avatar
pacifica
Posts: 207
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:34 pm

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby pacifica » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:44 pm

..
Last edited by pacifica on Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

jess1921
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby jess1921 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:53 pm

.
Last edited by jess1921 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

anon123
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:59 pm

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby anon123 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:07 am

C&F covers both university and criminal. I think it depends on the time passed/ and incident type but neither are good.

I am really hoping to avoid a bad cycle because of this. It seems silly to me to deny someone with high numbers/ high community involvement and who has one isolated incident when 15.. like not even a parking ticket.. especially when the issue poses virtually no threat to passing the Bar.

Didn't think about scholarships but that would really suck. Will be disclosing and hoping for the best.

User avatar
dresden doll
Posts: 6802
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:11 am

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby dresden doll » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:11 am

I think it's either bad enough to preclude admission, or insignificant enough not to stand in the way of anything.

gts1970
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:04 pm

Re: How does C&F factor into admissions?

Postby gts1970 » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:26 am

What about two dui misdemeanors. How bad will that effect an applicant?




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], sbrelaw and 1 guest