Are all EDs legally binding?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:53 pm

SaintsTheMetal wrote:
remix wrote:
collegebum1989 wrote:Ok, from what I read, EDing to two places concurrently is immoral. How about EDing to multiple schools in one cycles after hearing decisions.

For example, ED to NYU, and then EDing to Penn after being held. Is this ok to do? If it is, then will Penn know you EDed to NYU and were held when evaluating your ED application? Will all the schools you apply regular decision know where you applied ED?

Likewise, understanding the time-dependence of applications and the inherent risk of ED, do schools report ED decisions faster than regular decisions to allow applicants to pursue alternative choices?


Penn has two stages of ED now, so you could theoretically apply to NYU first, find out, and then hit Penn up on their second round.


False:
UPenn:
"Early Decision applicants applying to the Early Decision program at Penn Law commit themselves to matriculate at Penn Law if
admitted pursuant to the Early Decision program. An Early Decision applicant to Penn Law may not apply to a binding Early
Decision program at another law school during the same admissions cycle.
Applicants applying to Penn Law's Early Decision
program may apply to other law schools on a non-binding Early Notification or Regular decision basis, provided that they agree that
(1) if accepted to Penn Law as an Early Decision applicant, they will immediately withdraw in writing their applications to all other
law schools and (2) they will not initiate any new applications after they have been informed of their acceptance to Penn Law under
the Early Decision program."

Maybe you could get away with it after Penn rejects you, since after all what can they do at that point? But, it is still against the rules of the ED


Once a file is held, the applicant is typically no longer an "Early Decision applicant." Thus, they don't need to follow the rules pertaining specifically to "Early Decision applicants." The point of that sentence is to prevent someone from concurrently applying to multiple schools ED.

collegebum1989
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby collegebum1989 » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:04 pm

so if you do apply Penn Round 2, after being held/denied at NYU, will Penn know you EDed to NYU?

If so, I'm assuming it really won't affect their admissions decision, although its sort of ironic that you apply ED when its clear that its your second choice. Whatever the case may be, I think the addition of Round 2 was particularly to allow previous EDers who were held to apply ED to Penn (maybe to steal away some applicants from UVA)?

Either way, if you think Penn's ED clause means not to apply ED to two places in one cycle, it sort of doesn't make sense to add in a Round 2 admissions.


I love how law school admissions is a huge game between the schools to recruit students...i hope next cycle is like schools going to Walmart on Black Friday.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:56 pm

collegebum1989 wrote:so if you do apply Penn Round 2, after being held/denied at NYU, will Penn know you EDed to NYU?

If so, I'm assuming it really won't affect their admissions decision, although its sort of ironic that you apply ED when its clear that its your second choice. Whatever the case may be, I think the addition of Round 2 was particularly to allow previous EDers who were held to apply ED to Penn (maybe to steal away some applicants from UVA)?

Either way, if you think Penn's ED clause means not to apply ED to two places in one cycle, it sort of doesn't make sense to add in a Round 2 admissions.


I love how law school admissions is a huge game between the schools to recruit students...i hope next cycle is like schools going to Walmart on Black Friday.


UVA warped the idea behind Early Decision Applications when they gamed the system a few years ago by allowing students to ED to UVA mid-application cycle (so it was like January or something like that when they announced it). Other schools have now adjusted some to try to game the system as well, but haven't fully committed like UVA.

The Duck
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby The Duck » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:02 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
collegebum1989 wrote:so if you do apply Penn Round 2, after being held/denied at NYU, will Penn know you EDed to NYU?

If so, I'm assuming it really won't affect their admissions decision, although its sort of ironic that you apply ED when its clear that its your second choice. Whatever the case may be, I think the addition of Round 2 was particularly to allow previous EDers who were held to apply ED to Penn (maybe to steal away some applicants from UVA)?

Either way, if you think Penn's ED clause means not to apply ED to two places in one cycle, it sort of doesn't make sense to add in a Round 2 admissions.


I love how law school admissions is a huge game between the schools to recruit students...i hope next cycle is like schools going to Walmart on Black Friday.


UVA warped the idea behind Early Decision Applications when they gamed the system a few years ago by allowing students to ED to UVA mid-application cycle (so it was like January or something like that when they announced it). Other schools have now adjusted some to try to game the system as well, but haven't fully committed like UVA.


It's not clear that can be done anymore.

https://www.law.umich.edu/connection/a2z/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=44

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Ixiion
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby Ixiion » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:44 am

Point being: ED is almost always legally binding, and you should only apply ED to one school.

Some schools have different options if you want to apply early but not be ED, such as Cornell's "Early Action" or Duke's "Priority Track". If you'll notice, the non-binding ones are NOT called Early Decision, but rather something else.

Trips_93
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby Trips_93 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:45 am

Ixiion wrote:Point being: ED is almost always legally binding, and you should only apply ED to one school.

Some schools have different options if you want to apply early but not be ED, such as Cornell's "Early Action" or Duke's "Priority Track". If you'll notice, the non-binding ones are NOT called Early Decision, but rather something else.


Alright, thats all I wanted to know.

Thanks.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:27 pm

joeshmo39 wrote:I'm gonna referee this:

The Duck was reasonable. Cyanides has been silly. Now carry on.


It's possible I mistook being corrected for being snarky.

Ende
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby Ende » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:06 pm

Hi everyone, hope all is well..

I am curious to this also. After going through some back and forth on the first page, I did notice someone mentioned UPenn.


Just so I understand (and I really want to go to UPenn), if I elect to the ED and I am accepted, but I have other applications in the street (say Temple offers a full scholarship after I was accepted to UPenn under the ED guidelines), I would have to decline because of the ED policies UPenn has set?

If this is correct, and money for tuition is a factor, then it may not be such an advantage?

The Duck
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby The Duck » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:09 pm

Ende wrote:Hi everyone, hope all is well..

I am curious to this also. After going through some back and forth on the first page, I did notice someone mentioned UPenn.


Just so I understand (and I really want to go to UPenn), if I elect to the ED and I am accepted, but I have other applications in the street (say Temple offers a full scholarship after I was accepted to UPenn under the ED guidelines), I would have to decline because of the ED policies UPenn has set?

If this is correct, and money for tuition is a factor, then it may not be such an advantage?


Not only do you have to turn down Temple in your hypo, you must withdraw from all other schools upon being admitted to Penn so you'd never know if you would have been admitted to Temple. Do not ED if money is a factor. ED is only for a school you would attend at sticker.

Ende
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby Ende » Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:20 pm

The Duck wrote:ED is only for a school you would attend at sticker.


Wow!


So is there such a thing as an ED with a scholarship? Is that common?

The Duck
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby The Duck » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:29 pm

Ende wrote:
The Duck wrote:ED is only for a school you would attend at sticker.


Wow!


So is there such a thing as an ED with a scholarship? Is that common?


Only at a few schools...Michigan for instance treats ED like RD but ED here is Summer start instead of Fall. Very few schools give out merit aid to ED people...there is just no motivation to do it.

Ende
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby Ende » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:38 pm

The Duck wrote:
Ende wrote:
The Duck wrote:ED is only for a school you would attend at sticker.


Wow!


So is there such a thing as an ED with a scholarship? Is that common?


Only at a few schools...Michigan for instance treats ED like RD but ED here is Summer start instead of Fall. Very few schools give out merit aid to ED people...there is just no motivation to do it.



So if someone has competitive numbers, is it really worth it? It seems like it would be a better move if someone was a splitter, or just on the edge of being a competitive applicant.

The Duck
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby The Duck » Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:39 pm

Ende wrote:
So if someone has competitive numbers, is it really worth it? It seems like it would be a better move if someone was a splitter, or just on the edge of being a competitive applicant.


That's a decision you have to make...to me, probably not.

collegebum1989
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby collegebum1989 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:06 pm

Ende wrote:
The Duck wrote:ED is only for a school you would attend at sticker.


Wow!


So is there such a thing as an ED with a scholarship? Is that common?


Admissions runs like a business, when you ED it's like telling the school "I'll do anything for you", so they really have no incentive to offer you money since by signing their ED contract, you give up scholarship negotiations as well as your right to attend other schools. The only point of scholarships for law schools is to steal you away from other schools. They could care less about your propensity for debt.

Whether ED actually gives a boost for admissions depends on your numbers, the school you choose to ED, the cycle, among other things. So like law school itself, it's a gamble and you have to play it the right way.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Are all EDs legally binding?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:00 pm

Ende wrote:
The Duck wrote:ED is only for a school you would attend at sticker.


Wow!


So is there such a thing as an ED with a scholarship? Is that common?

there are some exceptions to this general concept. For instance, Chicago gives 15-30K a lot of times, and a poster here got NYU to give him some need-based aid after the fact




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