GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

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scham
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GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby scham » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:41 pm

So I just figured out over the weekend that LSAC doesn't take course forgiveness into account when calculating GPA. So my ~3.2 is going to be more like a ~2.8. I'm 33 and I just came back to school last semester to finish my undergraduate degree after 6 years off. I've gotten straight A's since I've come back, but without forgiveness I'm still looking at a pretty crappy GPA. How good do I need to do on my LSAT to make it into a decent school with a scholarship. I've gotten a 171 on a couple of practice tests recently. Are low 170s good enough? Do I need to hit 175 to impress the schools? Any words of encouragement? I still need to send my transcripts over to LSAC to see what they do to them (waiting on summer units to process). Should I consider waiting a year and finishing a second major to beef up my resume and try to raise my GPA to 3.0ish?

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alwayssunnyinfl
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:11 pm

.
Last edited by alwayssunnyinfl on Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Yardbird
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby Yardbird » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:45 pm

definitely look at Northwestern if you can get 170+ on the real deal (though when I took my LSATs I considered them proctored practice tests). Also look into UVA and Georgetown, though thise might be out because your GPA is under 3.0. However, with the way things went last cycle, you might get waitlisted instead of rejected and can work on getting off the waitlists with good LOCIs. Definitely read through Samara's guide for splitters and look at LSN. Ignore lawschoolpredictor.

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Nova
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby Nova » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:59 pm

I honestly dont think in most cases its worth the time, money, or effort to jump from 2.8 to 3.0. Thats debatable though. Either way, you are way below the 25ths of good schools.

167/168+ will probably get you $ at Midwest T30s like Illinois, WUSTL, and Minnesota. GW with $ is also on the table.

Like shadow said, scoring in the 170s should give you a shot at UVA ED, GULC, and Northwestern.
Last edited by Nova on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WannabeBlueDevil
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby WannabeBlueDevil » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:01 pm

boston U, and boston college do prettttty well for big law. and can be great schools to transfer from. just saying. GL!

edit: if you want to work in NY, pick a school that is well known in NY, especially if you have eyes to transfer later.

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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby WannabeBlueDevil » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:08 pm

Nova wrote:167/168+ will probably get you $ at Midwest T30s like Illinois, WUSTL, and Minnesota. GW with $ is also on the table.


possible. Id expect not though, id expect sticker for GW and Ill.
$ for 170/169. imo.

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Yardbird
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby Yardbird » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:10 pm

WannabeBlueDevil wrote:boston U, and boston college do prettttty well for big law. and can be great schools to transfer from. just saying. GL!

edit: if you want to work in NY, pick a school that is well known in NY, especially if you have eyes to transfer later.
BU is not a splitter friendly school...I don't think BC is either. Also, I may not be in law school yet but i'll reiterate advice I've heard: DO NOT go to a school with the intention of transferring if you would not also be 100% happy staying at that school for 3 years.
Last edited by Yardbird on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mr.hands
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby mr.hands » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:11 pm

168 will get you into WUSTL, quite possibly with money. A 167 will keep you out.

That's likely your best bet if you're sub 170

WannabeBlueDevil
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby WannabeBlueDevil » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:28 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:
WannabeBlueDevil wrote:boston U, and boston college do prettttty well for big law. and can be great schools to transfer from. just saying. GL!

edit: if you want to work in NY, pick a school that is well known in NY, especially if you have eyes to transfer later.
BU is not a splitter friendly school...I don't think BC is either. Also, I may not be in law school yet but i'll reiterate advice I've heard: DO NOT go to a school with the intention of transferring if you would not also be 100% happy staying at that school for 3 years.


if you are outside the top 20/t14, wherever you go you should have transferring in the back of your mind to some extent. you may not decide to transfer even if you can by the end of the year, for any number of reasons. but it should be in the back of your mind. and all things being equal if you are in at two schools, you might want to pick the school that could be the better transfer platform.
Last edited by WannabeBlueDevil on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby WannabeBlueDevil » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:30 pm

mr.hands wrote:168 will get you into WUSTL, quite possibly with money. A 167 will keep you out.

That's likely your best bet if you're sub 170


agreed.

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Nova
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby Nova » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:49 pm

WannabeBlueDevil wrote:
Nova wrote:167/168+ will probably get you $ at Midwest T30s like Illinois, WUSTL, and Minnesota. GW with $ is also on the table.


possible. Id expect not though, id expect sticker for GW and Ill.
$ for 170/169. imo.

Its not a lock for sure, but Ive heard of a few folks who got money with sub 3s and high 160s from T30s.

If this year is like last year, some schools will pay the right splitter for their relatively high LSAT.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=188446

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Yardbird
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby Yardbird » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:01 pm

WannabeBlueDevil wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:
WannabeBlueDevil wrote:boston U, and boston college do prettttty well for big law. and can be great schools to transfer from. just saying. GL!

edit: if you want to work in NY, pick a school that is well known in NY, especially if you have eyes to transfer later.
BU is not a splitter friendly school...I don't think BC is either. Also, I may not be in law school yet but i'll reiterate advice I've heard: DO NOT go to a school with the intention of transferring if you would not also be 100% happy staying at that school for 3 years.


if you are outside the top 20/t14, wherever you go you should have transferring in the back of your mind to some extent. you may not decide to transfer even if you can by the end of the year, for any number of reasons. but it should be in the back of your mind. and all things being equal if you are in at two schools, you might want to pick the school that could be the better transfer platform.
I never said you shouldn't completely...just said if you are thinking about it you should be going for schools you'd be happy with for 3 years and not just 1.

WannabeBlueDevil
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby WannabeBlueDevil » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:22 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:
WannabeBlueDevil wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:
WannabeBlueDevil wrote:boston U, and boston college do prettttty well for big law. and can be great schools to transfer from. just saying. GL!

edit: if you want to work in NY, pick a school that is well known in NY, especially if you have eyes to transfer later.
BU is not a splitter friendly school...I don't think BC is either. Also, I may not be in law school yet but i'll reiterate advice I've heard: DO NOT go to a school with the intention of transferring if you would not also be 100% happy staying at that school for 3 years.


if you are outside the top 20/t14, wherever you go you should have transferring in the back of your mind to some extent. you may not decide to transfer even if you can by the end of the year, for any number of reasons. but it should be in the back of your mind. and all things being equal if you are in at two schools, you might want to pick the school that could be the better transfer platform.
I never said you shouldn't completely...just said if you are thinking about it you should be going for schools you'd be happy with for 3 years and not just 1.


agreed - no one is arguing with you.
i recommend you measure happiness in law school with career goal potential.

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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby Miracle » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:37 pm

Nova wrote:I honestly dont think in most cases its worth the time, money, or effort to jump from 2.8 to 3.0. Thats debatable though. Either way, you are way below the 25ths of good schools.

167/168+ will probably get you $ at Midwest T30s like Illinois, WUSTL, and Minnesota. GW with $ is also on the table.

Like shadow said, scoring in the 170s should give you a shot at UVA ED, GULC, and Northwestern.


+1

work your butt off to get 170+, and enjoy one of the three schools mentioned above.

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Yardbird
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby Yardbird » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:48 pm

WannabeBlueDevil wrote:i recommend you measure happiness in law school with career goal potential.
loll, take a chill pill.

For the OP, look into getting a 170+ (or retaking if you don't get it) and you should be fine for a T14 at sticker even if its only 1 or 2 points higher and a T30 with some $$$. Come back after your LSAT for more direction.

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scham
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby scham » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:51 pm

Wow, thanks for all the replies. I'll have to sort through and look into them some before I can respond, but I just wanted to thank everyone for the advise and suggestions.

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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby WannabeBlueDevil » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:56 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:
WannabeBlueDevil wrote:i recommend you measure happiness in law school with career goal potential.
loll, take a chill pill.
said the 0L?

op - u have the right plan. go win!

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KevinP
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby KevinP » Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:19 am

@OP
Just to echo the sentiments in most of the thread:
Your GPA won't keep you out of the T14. Just need to score that 170+. Never go with the intent to transfer, especially not when it's FAR more easier to gain admission initially.

WannabeBlueDevil wrote:boston U, and boston college do prettttty well for big law. and can be great schools to transfer from. just saying. GL!

edit: if you want to work in NY, pick a school that is well known in NY, especially if you have eyes to transfer later.

No they don't and no they aren't.

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Robespierre
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby Robespierre » Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:03 pm

I had similar numbers to you and unfortunately I'm not as optimistic about the T14 as some other posters.

2.8/170-171 will probably not get you T14 except for a chance at GULC's part-time program and a very outside chance at Northwestern if you have excellent work experience. Lawschoolnumbers.com will bear me out on this; I think there are 2 or 3 people in the whole LSN sampling for the 2011-12 cycle who got T14 with those numbers.

2.8/174+ is a different story. GULC (full-time), UVa and Northwestern will frequently pull in applicants at that level (though it's still no sure thing by any means). Again, check LSN which has all the data.

So, if you want T14, either bring your GPA up above 3.0 (a huge psychological barrier) or put a herculean effort into your LSAT prep and bring in 174 or higher.

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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby WannabeBlueDevil » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:13 pm

KevinP wrote:@OP
Just to echo the sentiments in most of the thread:
Your GPA won't keep you out of the T14. Just need to score that 170+. Never go with the intent to transfer, especially not when it's FAR more easier to gain admission initially.

WannabeBlueDevil wrote:boston U, and boston college do prettttty well for big law. and can be great schools to transfer from. just saying. GL!

edit: if you want to work in NY, pick a school that is well known in NY, especially if you have eyes to transfer later.

No they don't and no they aren't.


both boston schools are in the top ten (if i recall) for highest paying careers, and check out law school transparenncy's data, they place well in big law.
and transferring from a name school helps. zero question.

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North
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby North » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:21 pm

WannabeBlueDevil wrote:both boston schools are in the top ten (if i recall) for highest paying careers, and check out law school transparenncy's data, they place well in big law.
and transferring from a name school helps. zero question.

You seem like you really think you know what you're talking about.

Miracle
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby Miracle » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:27 pm

North wrote:
WannabeBlueDevil wrote:both boston schools are in the top ten (if i recall) for highest paying careers, and check out law school transparenncy's data, they place well in big law.
and transferring from a name school helps. zero question.

You seem like you really think you know what you're talking about.


Hahaha

WannabeBlueDevil
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby WannabeBlueDevil » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:33 pm

Miracle wrote:
North wrote:
WannabeBlueDevil wrote:both boston schools are in the top ten (if i recall) for highest paying careers, and check out law school transparenncy's data, they place well in big law.
and transferring from a name school helps. zero question.

You seem like you really think you know what you're talking about.


Hahaha


yay cyber sarcasm.

heres a link to the top ten schools in terms of salary, only BU is in the top ten after all. http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/more-law ... ting-rich/

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top30man
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby top30man » Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:42 pm

WannabeBlueDevil wrote:
Miracle wrote:
North wrote:
WannabeBlueDevil wrote:both boston schools are in the top ten (if i recall) for highest paying careers, and check out law school transparenncy's data, they place well in big law.
and transferring from a name school helps. zero question.

You seem like you really think you know what you're talking about.


Hahaha


yay cyber sarcasm.

heres a link to the top ten schools in terms of salary, only BU is in the top ten after all. http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/more-law ... ting-rich/

This list isn't particular relevant. Look to schools that placing new grads in good jobs right now.

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North
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Re: GPA vs LSAT when your GPA sucks (~2.8)

Postby North » Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:03 pm

WannabeBlueDevil wrote:yay cyber sarcasm.

Haha, yup. Cyber sarcasm.

But, seriously:
  • "School name" does not matter when transferring, your performance during 1L almost exclusively does.
  • Never go to a law school with the sole intent of transferring elsewhere because there is about a 90% chance you won't be able to.
  • LST doesn't rank "highest paying careers."
  • If it did, it would be entirely irrelevant to OP.
  • This is what's relevant: BC (68.4% full time legal employment rate for graduates) and BU (50.9% full time legal employment rate for graduates)

Read more before giving advice to people who might take it. OP is in a great place to capitalize on his distance from his UGPA by working for a 170+ LSAT. Then he can go to a T14 outright.

ETA: Just saw your link. Lol, that information has about ZERO relevance to the people currently graduating. Get out of here dude.




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