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(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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helix23
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Postby helix23 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:50 pm

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Last edited by helix23 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

flcath
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby flcath » Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:01 pm

If you're black it certainly does.

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top30man
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby top30man » Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:05 pm

What is your potential rationale for doing this? It's not going to help you.

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No13baby
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby No13baby » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:33 pm

If you're white or Asian, it makes no difference. Men and women are about equally represented in law schools anyway, so I don't think gender changes anything either.

There's no reason not to report.

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2014
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby 2014 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:42 pm

flcath wrote:If you're black it certainly does.

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helix23
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Postby helix23 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:53 pm

top30man wrote:What is your potential rationale for doing this? It's not going to help you.


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Last edited by helix23 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:57 pm

helix23 wrote:
top30man wrote:What is your potential rationale for doing this? It's not going to help you.


Potential rationale being that over-representation may hurt chances?

Asian?

It's fine either way.
Last edited by JamMasterJ on Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:58 pm

They just assume you're white if you don't specify. So if you're white or Asian, it doesn't make a difference. If you're URM or some other ethnicity, then you might hurt yourself to varying degrees. (More for the 3 URM categories, obv)

Being Asian doesn't hurt in the case of law school, as Asians aren't as overrepresented as they are in undergrad.

Gender's not much of an issue. Women are slightly underrepresented, but not enough to matter on your apps.

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dingbat
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby dingbat » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:07 pm

top30man wrote:What is your potential rationale for doing this? It's not going to help you.

I always refuse, because I don't think it should matter.
Too bad I didn't apply to Michigan

CanadianWolf
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:19 pm

Might help as it allows the office clerks to fill in the missing blanks. :D

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:49 pm

dingbat wrote:
top30man wrote:What is your potential rationale for doing this? It's not going to help you.

I always refuse, because I don't think it should matter.
Too bad I didn't apply to Michigan

Michigan's "attempt to build a diverse class" is not the same as the law stating that they can't have race-based quotas

flcath
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby flcath » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:50 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
dingbat wrote:
top30man wrote:What is your potential rationale for doing this? It's not going to help you.

I always refuse, because I don't think it should matter.
Too bad I didn't apply to Michigan

Michigan's "attempt to build a diverse class" is not the same as the law stating that they can't have race-based quotas

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that, subsequent to the SCOTUS decision you're referencing, Michigan amended its state constitution to outlaw any AA on the part of U of M.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:54 pm

flcath wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
dingbat wrote:
top30man wrote:What is your potential rationale for doing this? It's not going to help you.

I always refuse, because I don't think it should matter.
Too bad I didn't apply to Michigan

Michigan's "attempt to build a diverse class" is not the same as the law stating that they can't have race-based quotas

My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that, subsequent to the SCOTUS decision you're referencing, Michigan amended its state constitution to outlaw any AA on the part of U of M.

Huh, I wasn't aware of that update.
Their LSN charts of URM only vs URM excluded create some pretty big questions if this is the case.

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dingbat
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby dingbat » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:56 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
dingbat wrote:
top30man wrote:What is your potential rationale for doing this? It's not going to help you.

I always refuse, because I don't think it should matter.
Too bad I didn't apply to Michigan

Michigan's "attempt to build a diverse class" is not the same as the law stating that they can't have race-based quotas

I'm diverse enough...

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:00 pm

flcath, are you referring to Grutter v Bollinger?

flcath
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby flcath » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:20 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:flcath, are you referring to Grutter v Bollinger?

Yup, ty. (I wasn't going to look it up myself; I get on TLS during the day to avoid doing legal research.) Prop. 2, under the "Law adopted post-case" section of the Wikipeida article, was what I was specifically referring to.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:21 pm

flcath wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:flcath, are you referring to Grutter v Bollinger?

Yup, ty. (I wasn't going to look it up myself; I get on TLS during the day to avoid doing legal research.) Prop. 2, under the "Law adopted post-case" section of the Wikipeida article, was what I was specifically referring to.

UM should just go private. It's essentially a private institution WRT funding anyway.

I wonder how explicitly this overturn rules out using race i.e. can they couch it by calling someone a "well-rounded candidate" rather than using a race-related term?

flcath
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby flcath » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:30 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
flcath wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:flcath, are you referring to Grutter v Bollinger?

Yup, ty. (I wasn't going to look it up myself; I get on TLS during the day to avoid doing legal research.) Prop. 2, under the "Law adopted post-case" section of the Wikipeida article, was what I was specifically referring to.

UM should just go private. It's essentially a private institution WRT funding anyway.

I wonder how explicitly this overturn rules out using race i.e. can they couch it by calling someone a "well-rounded candidate" rather than using a race-related term?

I would think so, otherwise U of M would have like no blax.

"Let's see, I can either go to HYS, CCN at half-price, or UVa/Penn with a full-ride . . . or Michigan at sticker price."

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:35 pm

flcath wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
flcath wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:flcath, are you referring to Grutter v Bollinger?

Yup, ty. (I wasn't going to look it up myself; I get on TLS during the day to avoid doing legal research.) Prop. 2, under the "Law adopted post-case" section of the Wikipeida article, was what I was specifically referring to.

UM should just go private. It's essentially a private institution WRT funding anyway.

I wonder how explicitly this overturn rules out using race i.e. can they couch it by calling someone a "well-rounded candidate" rather than using a race-related term?

I would think so, otherwise U of M would have like no blax.

"Let's see, I can either go to HYS, CCN at half-price, or UVa/Penn with a full-ride . . . or Michigan at sticker price."

right, because URMs that would be admitted without scholarships at M are basically locked into schollies at better schools. They would be completely out of the competition for creating a diverse class. A 167/3.9 AA male certainly has better options than Michigan at sticker.

flcath
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby flcath » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:55 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:right, because URMs that would be admitted without scholarships at M are basically locked into schollies at better schools. They would be completely out of the competition for creating a diverse class. A 167/3.9 AA male certainly has better options than Michigan at sticker.

I think your initial idea was right. They probably just do AA and lie and say it's something else. (Which isn't a bad thing. I'm pro-AA and, even if I weren't, it'd be very difficult to be the *only* LS not to do it.)

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helix23
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Postby helix23 » Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:40 pm

flem wrote:I think whenever you don't report they just put them in the "whatever, whitey" pile.


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Last edited by helix23 on Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

flcath
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby flcath » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:31 pm

helix23 wrote:
flem wrote:I think whenever you don't report they just put them in the "whatever, whitey" pile.


lol I guess I was wondering if it's better to be implicitly or explicitly a white male...

The people who handle this data aren't the same people who make your hiring decisions. A lot of times it comes in a totally separate email, sometimes after you've been rejected.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:57 pm

flcath wrote:
helix23 wrote:
flem wrote:I think whenever you don't report they just put them in the "whatever, whitey" pile.


lol I guess I was wondering if it's better to be implicitly or explicitly a white male...

The people who handle this data aren't the same people who make your hiring decisions. A lot of times it comes in a totally separate email, sometimes after you've been rejected.

wrong forum, yes?

flcath
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Re: Does not reporting ethnicity or gender hurt your app?

Postby flcath » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:20 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
flcath wrote:
helix23 wrote:
flem wrote:I think whenever you don't report they just put them in the "whatever, whitey" pile.


lol I guess I was wondering if it's better to be implicitly or explicitly a white male...

The people who handle this data aren't the same people who make your hiring decisions. A lot of times it comes in a totally separate email, sometimes after you've been rejected.

wrong forum, yes?

Oh yeah, I forgot this board does admissions stuff.




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