How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

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amorphix
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How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby amorphix » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:49 pm

I'm currently attending a private, liberal arts college. Many of the degrees offered here are the kind of degrees about which people can't help but make unemployment jokes. I should know - my departments are philosophy and two modern languages. I have seen, on multiple occasions, the panic that sets in when people who are graduating with degrees like mine can't figure out how to market themselves/are entering a bad economy/etc. For many, the obvious solution seems to be law school.

I mean, everyone here on TLS knows that these are the kind of people who are tragically misinformed about the law school experience, employment prospects, and living a life as an actual attorney. And you can't write them off as the kind of idiots who are too stupid to get in, anyway. TTTT admission rates aside, some of them actually have really good GPAs and LSAT scores. So some will actually get into GOOD schools.

But many will go and drop out in the first year, when they find out that law school is not just the place you go to delay getting a job for three years. Others will grit their teeth and graduate, probably even pass the bar, but end up hating their lives when they can't get a job, or they get a job that they probably never wanted in the first place.

Based on the lackluster enthusiasm of many fellow applicants I've talked to ("I dunno, I figured I'd stay in [law] school for a few more years, until the economy improves"), I'm wondering what percentage of applicants actually have any idea what they're getting themselves into, and what percentage actually WANT to be lawyers, as opposed to just having a really strong drive to make a ton of money. Anybody else had that kind of experience with other applicants off of TLS (or maybe on, haha)?

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somewhatwayward
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby somewhatwayward » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:06 pm

it might be a significant percentage of people who aren't that committed to practicing law, but don't expect your certainty about law to get you any edge. if someone who's not that passionate (and it comes through in their application) has better numbers than you, even a point on the LSAT, expect that person to be admitted over you.

amorphix
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby amorphix » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:13 pm

Oh, I'm not expecting an edge of any kind. It's pretty difficult to differentiate between levels of sincere interest or whatever. But I guess it was just something that had me thinking.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:14 pm

Most lawyers don't really want to be lawyers. hth

jmjm
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby jmjm » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:25 am

I want to know the answer to OP question as well.

Why do people go into law if they dont want do law? My guess is that they want more opportunity.

Once you are enrolled in a jd program at a top law schools you have many career avenues available. One may pursue further education and go into academia, or one may go into world bank or investment banking or nonprofit consulting or social enterprise or politics or even transition into management.

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rayiner
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby rayiner » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:31 am

Bildungsroman wrote:Most lawyers don't really want to be lawyers. hth


Most people don't want to have jobs.

admisionquestion
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby admisionquestion » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:04 am

Bildungsroman wrote:Most lawyers don't really want to be lawyers. hth


Is this from Gallup?

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06102016
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby 06102016 » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:27 am

..

JohnV
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby JohnV » Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:57 am

slack_academic wrote:I want to be an attorney, but that stems mainly from my interest in bird law.


Hummingbirds are legal tender.

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PDaddy
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby PDaddy » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:06 am

somewhatwayward wrote:it might be a significant percentage of people who aren't that committed to practicing law, but don't expect your certainty about law to get you any edge. if someone who's not that passionate (and it comes through in their application) has better numbers than you, even a point on the LSAT, expect that person to be admitted over you.


Not necessarily true...and generally not true.

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PDaddy
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby PDaddy » Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:12 am

jmjm wrote:I want to know the answer to OP question as well.

Why do people go into law if they dont want do law? My guess is that they want more opportunity.

Once you are enrolled in a jd program at a top law schools you have many career avenues available. One may pursue further education and go into academia, or one may go into world bank or investment banking or nonprofit consulting or social enterprise or politics or even transition into management.


If one wants to be an investment banker, it's easiest to go the b-school route. Moreover, Wall Street firms like Goldman Sachs hire new grads with little work experience for entry-level positions every year, so one can get experience before going to b-school.

The JD/MBA route is admirable, but if one is a practicing lawyer at a biglaw firm, the MBA will not be as useful in his first 5 years, because he hasn't yet established a personal client base or even brought into the firm a significant number of clients. Hence, the MBA is not necessary for corporate lawyers, but is eventually a useful degree.

jmjm
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby jmjm » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:32 pm

PDaddy wrote:
jmjm wrote:I want to know the answer to OP question as well.

Why do people go into law if they dont want do law? My guess is that they want more opportunity.

Once you are enrolled in a jd program at a top law schools you have many career avenues available. One may pursue further education and go into academia, or one may go into world bank or investment banking or nonprofit consulting or social enterprise or politics or even transition into management.


If one wants to be an investment banker, it's easiest to go the b-school route. Moreover, Wall Street firms like Goldman Sachs hire new grads with little work experience for entry-level positions every year, so one can get experience before going to b-school.

The JD/MBA route is admirable, but if one is a practicing lawyer at a biglaw firm, the MBA will not be as useful in his first 5 years, because he hasn't yet established a personal client base or even brought into the firm a significant number of clients. Hence, the MBA is not necessary for corporate lawyers, but is eventually a useful degree.


I looked at a few law school webpages and it is easily noticeable that their placement/career development website does not provide a lot of information about the details of org/firms and salaries of the graduating class.

Is such info available?

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Lawquacious
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:06 am

Bildungsroman wrote:Most lawyers don't really want to be lawyers. hth


Don't know if this is true, but +1 anyway

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spleenworship
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby spleenworship » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:21 am

Lawquacious wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Most lawyers don't really want to be lawyers. hth


Don't know if this is true, but +1 anyway



Yeah. Applicants: 50% want to. Graduates: 33%. Just an estimate from what I've seen.

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VUSisterRayVU
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby VUSisterRayVU » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:42 pm

If someone is smart enough to go from a good LAC to a good LS, they will almost assuredly research what LS entails. From there, idk, they'll decide.

Do you actually want to be a lawyer? To work 2200+ hours? It's bullshit. Working fucking sucks. Nobody wants to work. But it's probably better to grind and 'win' and get a high paying office job instead of working 10+ hours in a more typical service industry job.

We are all but strivers in this great ghetto life, brother. What distinguishes the 'smart' people is when they stop striving and relax.

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DaRascal
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby DaRascal » Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:23 am

I can't speak for anyone else but I've been thinking about this a lot for the past month. At first I only wanted to go to law school for monetary reasons but now, while money is still important, I'm just excited about the prospect of practicing law. No matter where I go to law school I'm going to absorb everything I learn and spend my life in the law library honing my research skills and picking up everything I can about the game.

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Favre4Prez
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby Favre4Prez » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:32 am

amorphix wrote:I'm currently attending a private, liberal arts college. Many of the degrees offered here are the kind of degrees about which people can't help but make unemployment jokes. I should know - my departments are philosophy and two modern languages. I have seen, on multiple occasions, the panic that sets in when people who are graduating with degrees like mine can't figure out how to market themselves/are entering a bad economy/etc. For many, the obvious solution seems to be law school.

I mean, everyone here on TLS knows that these are the kind of people who are tragically misinformed about the law school experience, employment prospects, and living a life as an actual attorney. And you can't write them off as the kind of idiots who are too stupid to get in, anyway. TTTT admission rates aside, some of them actually have really good GPAs and LSAT scores. So some will actually get into GOOD schools.

But many will go and drop out in the first year, when they find out that law school is not just the place you go to delay getting a job for three years. Others will grit their teeth and graduate, probably even pass the bar, but end up hating their lives when they can't get a job, or they get a job that they probably never wanted in the first place.

Based on the lackluster enthusiasm of many fellow applicants I've talked to ("I dunno, I figured I'd stay in [law] school for a few more years, until the economy improves"), I'm wondering what percentage of applicants actually have any idea what they're getting themselves into, and what percentage actually WANT to be lawyers, as opposed to just having a really strong drive to make a ton of money. Anybody else had that kind of experience with other applicants off of TLS (or maybe on, haha)?


I really hope everyone knows law school and the profession is going to be utter shite. If you've ever met an attorney, I am willing to bet my next paycheck that this person isn't happy. Most of these students you speak of probably have at least a vague idea of what they're getting themselves into but probably can't fathom the full extent of just how soul-crushing the entire pursuit is. To put it simply, some parts of life suck. If I could snap my fingers right now, I'd be on the Yankees, but that's not how it works.

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Favre4Prez
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby Favre4Prez » Sun Aug 05, 2012 1:50 am

VUSisterRayVU wrote:If someone is smart enough to go from a good LAC to a good LS, they will almost assuredly research what LS entails.


This is true, emphasis on the good.

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rinkrat19
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby rinkrat19 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:31 am

rayiner wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Most lawyers don't really want to be lawyers. hth


Most people don't want to have jobs.
+1

Most jobs are boring, and many of them suck outright. I'm not expecting being a lawyer to be superawesomefun. I'd love to be one of the miniscule percentage of people who actually love what they do AND make a decent living doing it, but I'd be satisfied for being paid reasonably well for doing a job I can tolerate.

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KevinP
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Re: How Many Applicants REALLY Want to Be Lawyers?

Postby KevinP » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:48 am

rinkrat19 wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Most lawyers don't really want to be lawyers. hth


Most people don't want to have jobs.
+1

Most jobs are boring, and many of them suck outright. I'm not expecting being a lawyer to be superawesomefun. I'd love to be one of the miniscule percentage of people who actually love what they do AND make a decent living doing it, but I'd be satisfied for being paid reasonably well for doing a job I can tolerate.

TITCR




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