ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

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KevinP
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby KevinP » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:29 am

^Obligatory boomer meme:
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tooswolle
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby tooswolle » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:55 am

How can people from our generation stand up to these obvious threats to our future? I honestly don't get why our generation is sitting idly by while these old shit boomers fucking threaten our futures with their idiotic ideas. First the ABA lost its power to regulate accreditation leading to an over supply of lawyers, now it's thinking about alowing foreign schools to open up and create more market pressures for incoming law graduates? How do all these people sleep at night and how do we rise up to fight this?

JetsFan1990
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby JetsFan1990 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:51 am

tooswolle wrote:How can people from our generation stand up to these obvious threats to our future? I honestly don't get why our generation is sitting idly by while these old shit boomers fucking threaten our futures with their idiotic ideas. First the ABA lost its power to regulate accreditation leading to an over supply of lawyers, now it's thinking about alowing foreign schools to open up and create more market pressures for incoming law graduates? How do all these people sleep at night and how do we rise up to fight this?

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=we+need+ ... 0,s:0,i:72

We need a hero!!! .. no, but seriously this is some hogwash. I'm honestly sick of this generation incessantly shitting on ours.

sadsituationJD
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby sadsituationJD » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:47 am

I'm not sure about that, but I don't think outsourcing is really that big of a deal. Typical small firm work probably cannot be outsourced. Navneet in Bangalore can't represent a criminal defendant by teleconference or have a final will signing. I doubt many ordinary folks who use small firm lawyers would trust a foreign attorney.


You're dead wrong on that. My friend is a solo who represents medical offices for collections work under PIP/No Fault in NYC, and he has all pleadings, motions, and other papers churned out by an LPO in Bangalore. He pays only $5 for a complaint and like $15 for a summary judgement motion. He says the work is 10 X better than what the $15/hour "associate" attorneys from TTT schools (Brooklyn, Bozo, et al) were capable of doing when he was using them. So yes, even the shittiest of shit-jobs in law can and will be sent overseas.

These LPO's are now marketing aggressively to small firms. It's easier to have pleadings and motions churned over there and emailed here rather than hiring some moron newbie from a TTT to do it. They even do pretty decent research and don't charge extra for Lexis time and such. Hell, if it works for Biglaw why not jump on the bandwagon?

You've all made a horrific decision by attending law school, and I can't even imagine what the hell was/is going thru your heads. This industry is dead.

EDIT: It also opens up the possibility of someone in say India, Korea, China etc getting a dirt-cheap ABA school JD in their own country, then coming here and setting up shop in ethnic neighboorhoods where they speak the language and can offer cheap services since they'll have little to no debt.

A firm could also easily get one of these folks here on a H1-B by saying they need their language skills etc. Then once they're here you just treat them like a slave and pay them $10 to $15 an hour to churn the bales of legal shitpaper (motions, complaints etc).

Since none of you have yet practiced (much less practiced shitlaw), you don't understand how abysmal the papers are and how bottom-scraping the standards are. No one has time to read any of this hogwash anyway, so typos and such really don't matter. I have received motions written by American lawyers that I'd put at say a 6th to 8th grade writing level. It's no biggie. This industry is just a sinking ship and a really rotten way to earn a substandard, embarrassing wage.

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North
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby North » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:14 am

Can someone educate me about how the ABA lost its control over accreditation restrictions? It it something that can be undone?

I don't know enough about how the ABA works yet, but I'm envisioning a TLS voting block in its decisionmaking body in 10 years or so. If the SHITBOOMERS haven't entirely sold off our futures by then, maybe we could reverse all of this bullshit with some political willpower.

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fatduck
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby fatduck » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:17 am

North wrote:Can someone educate me about how the ABA lost its control over accreditation restrictions? It it something that can be undone?

I don't know enough about how the ABA works yet, but I'm envisioning a TLS voting block in its decisionmaking body in 10 years or so. If the SHITBOOMERS haven't entirely sold off our futures by then, maybe we could reverse all of this bullshit with some political willpower.

LOL

you can be a US SENATOR until you're 100, dude. i'm pretty sure these shitboomers view "ABA board member" as a fucking lifetime appointment. and when they do hand over the reins it'll be to shitboomer apologists who will continue to fuck us.

sadsituationJD
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby sadsituationJD » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:32 am

Article from today's paper about local firm (in oregon) which faces intense pressure to outsource (result: no SA's and layoffs of associates):

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/inde ... er_default

The clients simply DEMAND outsourcing, and if the firm's refuse, they go right to the LPO themselves. Trouble with any job that involves makework paper pushing is that it can and will be outsourced. The tide will not reverse, and in fact will get much, much worse.

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KevinP
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby KevinP » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:31 pm

North wrote:Can someone educate me about how the ABA lost its control over accreditation restrictions? It it something that can be undone?

Basically a bunch of TTTs seeking accreditation cried foul when the ABA refused to accredit them. This caused the DoJ (http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/americ1.htm) to step in and file antitrust cases. The ABA, being full of useless boomers, simply complied without fighting the DoJ.

sadsituationJD wrote:You've all made a horrific decision by attending law school, and I can't even imagine what the hell was/is going thru your heads. This industry is dead.

This generalization is unwarranted. For most law grads, law school is a bad idea, but not for all law grads.
Quoting myself from another thread:
When taken in the context of the job market in general for those coming from UG, the T14 (w/ maybe exception of GULC) are very likely to give a good return on investment. As a currently employed full-time engineer about to head to CLS at non-sticker price, I'm almost certainly going to be in a better position from a financial perspective by attending law school.

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tooswolle
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby tooswolle » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:07 pm

JetsFan1990 wrote:
tooswolle wrote:How can people from our generation stand up to these obvious threats to our future? I honestly don't get why our generation is sitting idly by while these old shit boomers fucking threaten our futures with their idiotic ideas. First the ABA lost its power to regulate accreditation leading to an over supply of lawyers, now it's thinking about alowing foreign schools to open up and create more market pressures for incoming law graduates? How do all these people sleep at night and how do we rise up to fight this?

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=we+need+ ... 0,s:0,i:72

We need a hero!!! .. no, but seriously this is some hogwash. I'm honestly sick of this generation incessantly shitting on ours.



Who will rise and be TLS's Dark Knight?

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haus
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby haus » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:19 pm

For the most part, worrying about the accreditation of foreign schools is rather pointless, as it will likely have a small impact compared to the eventual accreditation of on fully or mostly online program. While online programs might be put off for another decade or so, I bet that they will come to be before most people starting law school now get mid-way through their law careers.

sadsituationJD
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby sadsituationJD » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:26 pm

As a currently employed full-time engineer about to head to CLS at non-sticker price, I'm almost certainly going to be in a better position from a financial perspective by attending law school.



I highly doubt it, but keep telling yourself that.

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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby bruss » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:29 pm

KevinP wrote:^Obligatory boomer meme:
--ImageRemoved--


Haha nice

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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby ams212 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:57 pm

KevinP wrote:^Obligatory boomer meme:
--ImageRemoved--


The follow up meme to that should go something like that:

Don't worry that we screwed up the economy.


You will always be able to fall back on social security and Medicare even if you can't ever find a decent job.

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KevinP
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby KevinP » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:05 pm

sadsituationJD wrote: I highly doubt it, but keep telling yourself that.

I have no illusion of how brutal the legal market is, and I plan to drop out if I end up in the bottom 1/3 of the class at Columbia.

In terms of finances, it's not exactly as if I have a shitton of long-term options available to me in post-boomer America, even as an engineer.

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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby sadsituationJD » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:36 am

I have no illusion of how brutal the legal market is, and I plan to drop out if I end up in the bottom 1/3 of the class at Columbia.

In terms of finances, it's not exactly as if I have a shitton of long-term options available to me in post-boomer America, even as an engineer.


I hear ya, Kevin. My cousin has a Master's in Mechanical Engineering from a very strong state school down South, and he's now back home in NJ making $22 an hour as a temp with no benefits and a terrible work environment. The work he's doing is quasi-engineering, but almost absurdly below his training/skill level.

Luckily his father is a master carpenter/cabinetmaker, who even ITE still has steady work from wealthy types in the Far Hills/Bernardsville/Tewksbury NJ area. My cousin inherited the carpentry skills, and now is thinking of simply taking over his dad's business and working as a contractor and high-end carpenter. The money is far better than engineering, and overall its a decent gig. Right now him & his dad are building a library out of rare rain-forest type wood for a hedge fund guy, and charging him $70 an hour for labor. Overhead is low, and it's a much better gig than paper-pushing.

Overall, most jobs that don't require one to be physically present: law, engineering, accounting, general paper-pushing- can, are, and will continue to be outsourced.

Have you considered a DPT (Physical Therapy) degree? It's the same length as lawschool (3 years), and is a growth, in-demand industry with high pay and zero chance of being outsourced. My GF is applying to programs right now (she was a bio undergrad), and we hope that once she graduates we'll pretty much live off her income and I'll just be a stay-at-home dad & part time shitlawyer.

Law degrees nowadays for all but the Biglaw-bound are akin to real estate salesperson licenses, etc. Just something to pick up a few extra bucks here and there, but by no means any sort of reliable, comfortable, steady living/income. The days of law as a prestigious, lucrative "career" and profession akin to medicine etc are long gone. Thank the ABA, the low standards for the bar'zam, and the rise of technology, which has eliminated a lot of "routine" legal work like LLC formation, wills & trusts, expungements, etc.

Every indication I see in the legal industry is that things will only get worse going fwd. Bravo to you for having the plan in place to drop out if you miss Biglaw.

Miracle
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby Miracle » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:48 am

sadsituationJD wrote:
I have no illusion of how brutal the legal market is, and I plan to drop out if I end up in the bottom 1/3 of the class at Columbia.

In terms of finances, it's not exactly as if I have a shitton of long-term options available to me in post-boomer America, even as an engineer.


I hear ya, Kevin. My cousin has a Master's in Mechanical Engineering from a very strong state school down South, and he's now back home in NJ making $22 an hour as a temp with no benefits and a terrible work environment. The work he's doing is quasi-engineering, but almost absurdly below his training/skill level.

Luckily his father is a master carpenter/cabinetmaker, who even ITE still has steady work from wealthy types in the Far Hills/Bernardsville/Tewksbury NJ area. My cousin inherited the carpentry skills, and now is thinking of simply taking over his dad's business and working as a contractor and high-end carpenter. The money is far better than engineering, and overall its a decent gig. Right now him & his dad are building a library out of rare rain-forest type wood for a hedge fund guy, and charging him $70 an hour for labor. Overhead is low, and it's a much better gig than paper-pushing.

Overall, most jobs that don't require one to be physically present: law, engineering, accounting, general paper-pushing- can, are, and will continue to be outsourced.

Have you considered a DPT (Physical Therapy) degree? It's the same length as lawschool (3 years), and is a growth, in-demand industry with high pay and zero chance of being outsourced. My GF is applying to programs right now (she was a bio undergrad), and we hope that once she graduates we'll pretty much live off her income and I'll just be a stay-at-home dad & part time shitlawyer.

Law degrees nowadays for all but the Biglaw-bound are akin to real estate salesperson licenses, etc. Just something to pick up a few extra bucks here and there, but by no means any sort of reliable, comfortable, steady living/income. The days of law as a prestigious, lucrative "career" and profession akin to medicine etc are long gone. Thank the ABA, the low standards for the bar'zam, and the rise of technology, which has eliminated a lot of "routine" legal work like LLC formation, wills & trusts, expungements, etc.

Every indication I see in the legal industry is that things will only get worse going fwd. Bravo to you for having the plan in place to drop out if you miss Biglaw.


If you feel this way why do u plan on attending law school (not to be rude), but just asking.

I do not believe that law as a career is dead, but i do feel something needs to be done to make a change

Miracle
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby Miracle » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:51 am

tooswolle wrote:How can people from our generation stand up to these obvious threats to our future? I honestly don't get why our generation is sitting idly by while these old shit boomers fucking threaten our futures with their idiotic ideas. First the ABA lost its power to regulate accreditation leading to an over supply of lawyers, now it's thinking about alowing foreign schools to open up and create more market pressures for incoming law graduates? How do all these people sleep at night and how do we rise up to fight this?


I strongly support this. We should most definitely collectively do something and send a message to ABA. We have no protection from ABA whatsoever. Too many schools, too many students, and they are making this situation a lot worse. They are completely selling us out, and i fell we can make a change if we chose to do so.

JetsFan1990
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby JetsFan1990 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:06 am

Miracle wrote:
sadsituationJD wrote:
I have no illusion of how brutal the legal market is, and I plan to drop out if I end up in the bottom 1/3 of the class at Columbia.

In terms of finances, it's not exactly as if I have a shitton of long-term options available to me in post-boomer America, even as an engineer.


I hear ya, Kevin. My cousin has a Master's in Mechanical Engineering from a very strong state school down South, and he's now back home in NJ making $22 an hour as a temp with no benefits and a terrible work environment. The work he's doing is quasi-engineering, but almost absurdly below his training/skill level.

Luckily his father is a master carpenter/cabinetmaker, who even ITE still has steady work from wealthy types in the Far Hills/Bernardsville/Tewksbury NJ area. My cousin inherited the carpentry skills, and now is thinking of simply taking over his dad's business and working as a contractor and high-end carpenter. The money is far better than engineering, and overall its a decent gig. Right now him & his dad are building a library out of rare rain-forest type wood for a hedge fund guy, and charging him $70 an hour for labor. Overhead is low, and it's a much better gig than paper-pushing.

Overall, most jobs that don't require one to be physically present: law, engineering, accounting, general paper-pushing- can, are, and will continue to be outsourced.

Have you considered a DPT (Physical Therapy) degree? It's the same length as lawschool (3 years), and is a growth, in-demand industry with high pay and zero chance of being outsourced. My GF is applying to programs right now (she was a bio undergrad), and we hope that once she graduates we'll pretty much live off her income and I'll just be a stay-at-home dad & part time shitlawyer.

Law degrees nowadays for all but the Biglaw-bound are akin to real estate salesperson licenses, etc. Just something to pick up a few extra bucks here and there, but by no means any sort of reliable, comfortable, steady living/income. The days of law as a prestigious, lucrative "career" and profession akin to medicine etc are long gone. Thank the ABA, the low standards for the bar'zam, and the rise of technology, which has eliminated a lot of "routine" legal work like LLC formation, wills & trusts, expungements, etc.

Every indication I see in the legal industry is that things will only get worse going fwd. Bravo to you for having the plan in place to drop out if you miss Biglaw.


If you feel this way why do u plan on attending law school (not to be rude), but just asking.

I do not believe that law as a career is dead, but i do feel something needs to be done to make a change


Yeah, I agree. Unless of course you've already made the dumb decision to attend some TTT, and are now immediately regretting it (which is all but certain to be the case). In which case, I understand your bitching and you may continue. But really, claiming you will survive off the money your GF makes massaging knees is almost as ridiculous as the shit you're saying about law.

Law, by the nature of the field, is a nobler profession than most. If lawyers won't even take the profession seriously, how can you expect others to. I apologize for the melodramatic nonsense, but sometimes it needs to be said.

Enjoy shitlaw.

JetsFan1990
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby JetsFan1990 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:12 am


sadsituationJD
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby sadsituationJD » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:18 am

I understand your bitching and you may continue. But really, claiming you will survive off the money your GF makes massaging knees is almost as ridiculous as the shit you're saying about law.


You are very ill-informed about physical therapy. The demand is high (and getting higher) as the Boomers get old and break down, and getting into a DPT program is much more difficult than getting into a TTT law school. Believe it or not, there are actually pre-reqs, as well as a requirement that one log 80 to 120 hours working in a PT office or facility prior to applying.

My father recently had a hip replacement, and his PT is 28 years old and recently spoke w/ my GF about the career, schools, prospects etc. Lots of facilities are grossly under-staffed, and if she works a Saturday she gets $65 an hour. Her starting salary at a Kessler facility was 70 K, and with her Saturday per diem work she is going to clear over 90 K just two years out of school. And she's no academic superstar- she went to a "TTT" physical therapy school (U of Scranton in PA). But for PT the school doesn't really matter, unlike law where it means everything.

Just go ahead and look on job boards at the # of PT jobs vs. the number of shitlaw jobs. It's no contest.

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fatduck
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby fatduck » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:20 am

this is gonna blow your mind, but some people would rather be lawyers than carpenters

MarvinsRoom
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby MarvinsRoom » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:22 am

Wow. This is cray. :P

Miracle
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby Miracle » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:26 am

JetsFan1990 wrote:This isn't happening. http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... w_schools/


:shock: Yes!!!!!!!!!

flcath
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby flcath » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:07 pm

Miracle wrote:
JetsFan1990 wrote:This isn't happening. http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/ ... w_schools/


:shock: Yes!!!!!!!!!

15-0. Thank you fucking Jesus.

Just to be safe, and to make a point, some brave bottom-half TTT students should suicide bomb the two abstententions.

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nickb285
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Re: ABA to consider accrediting FOREIGN law schools

Postby nickb285 » Mon Aug 06, 2012 1:17 pm

Thank God.
Last edited by nickb285 on Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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