Oxford PPE straight to US Law schools?

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privatemember2012
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Oxford PPE straight to US Law schools?

Postby privatemember2012 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:36 pm

I am a third (last) year PPE (Philosophy, Politics, Economics) student at Oxford and have started preparing for law school applications to HYS. How would a UK undergraduate education affect application prospects for an American citizen? What should I focus on (LSAT, LORs, PS, etc.)? And would Oxford hurt or help chances? Many thanks

bbsg
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Re: Oxford PPE straight to US Law schools?

Postby bbsg » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:00 pm

It'll help but not significantly. People are going to come and say an undergrad is an undergrad, but the sort of instruction for a BA in Oxford is actually comparable to an American masters in many regards..Can't you just upgrade to a master's by asking for it seven years after graduating, for example? Or am I thinking of Cambridge or something? Anyway, admissions committees will know this so I'm sure the Oxford name won't hurt. So when people come and say the Oxford name means absolutely nothing after I post this, I would take their advice with a grain a salt. It won't, however, help significantly. You need to be going for 2:1 at the bare minimum, even if Oxford.

Any questions they may have are going to be cleared up if you knock the LSAT out of the park. A high LSAT (175+) should secure you a spot at H, certainly, if you have done well at Oxford. The LORs and other factors are more of a big deal at Yale and Stanford (especially Yale), but they are unlikely to overcome a weak LSAT score.

Destroy the LSAT should be your first priority. Securing some very strong LORs should be a second (not a CLOSE second, but definitely a consideration) for YS.

People have mentioned Stanford is partial to personal statements and LORs that mention Stanford specifically (clearly Stanford-based, I mean), for what that's worth, too.

privatemember2012
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Re: Oxford PPE straight to US Law schools?

Postby privatemember2012 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:07 am

Thanks for the advice. I am gong for a first, and no, youncant upgrade to a masters in my course unfortunately.

privatemember2012
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Re: Oxford PPE straight to US Law schools?

Postby privatemember2012 » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:59 am

Anyone else have experience with international applications?

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: Oxford PPE straight to US Law schools?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:37 pm

HYS definitely view Oxford and Cambridge positively. A large number of HYS students have spent time at one of the two - in part because of the Rhodes and other similar scholarships.

As you probably know, unlike US educated applicants, you won't have an LSAC GPA. Instead, LSAC will give you an evaluation - "superior," "above average," "average," or "below average."

No one has got into HYS on these boards or LSN with an "above average" or worse, but people have got into CCN and the rest of the t14 with "above average" evaluations. The rule of thumb is that a 1st class degree = superior, and a 2.1 = above average, but there are exceptions. I'm guessing a high 2.1 at Oxford might stand a chance of being evaluated as "superior."

The LSAT will be far and away the most important element of your application though, since you don't have an LSAC GPA - even more important than it is for US-educated applicants.

privatemember2012
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Re: Oxford PPE straight to US Law schools?

Postby privatemember2012 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:43 am

I just received the transcript evaluation and was marked 'above average' after my prelims (1st year) marks. It seems a bit unlucky, as it looks like they consider 70% or higher 1st class, therefore superior, and anything below that does not qualify. In the PPE course, since there are three modules and it is considered more difficult, you have to get above a 200 total. My average was a 208 (69.3%), which is well above the required first class mark, but this was overlooked.

In other words, instead of a high 2.1 being a superior, as you mentioned above, a solid 1st is considered above average!

Given that 18% of students got distinctions/1st class, and I was well above that cutoff, so I can safely predict being in the top 15%, is there any way I could get the evaluation re-done? I feel like this will affect my chances quite significantly at HYS.

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dingbat
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Re: Oxford PPE straight to US Law schools?

Postby dingbat » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:52 am

privatemember2012 wrote:I just received the transcript evaluation and was marked 'above average' after my prelims (1st year) marks. It seems a bit unlucky, as it looks like they consider 70% or higher 1st class, therefore superior, and anything below that does not qualify. In the PPE course, since there are three modules and it is considered more difficult, you have to get above a 200 total. My average was a 208 (69.3%), which is well above the required first class mark, but this was overlooked.

In other words, instead of a high 2.1 being a superior, as you mentioned above, a solid 1st is considered above average!

Given that 18% of students got distinctions/1st class, and I was well above that cutoff, so I can safely predict being in the top 15%, is there any way I could get the evaluation re-done? I feel like this will affect my chances quite significantly at HYS.

Try contacting LSAT.
The people working there might (are) probably not familiar with the PPE, so best of luck to you
(it's too bad, had you already graduated, it'd be easy for them to tell you got a first)

Your LSAC valuation functions as a grade cutoff - if it's below a certain standard, schools won't look at you. After that, your LSAT score matters most. Conventional wisdom is that if your LSAT is below the 25th percentile of a school, you won't get in and if it's above the 75th percentile, you will get in, with everything in between a maybe.
This is true for most schools, but you might get a boost based on the Oxford PPE (if a school is familiar with it), or even the Oxford name.

privatemember2012
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Re: Oxford PPE straight to US Law schools?

Postby privatemember2012 » Thu Aug 23, 2012 5:06 pm

They changed it to Superior, thankfully. Now I can go back to worrying about the rest of the application...




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