Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

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Owens.970
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Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby Owens.970 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:29 am

Entering my junior year with a 3.5. Optamistically, I'll have a 3.65 by the time I start applying for law school. Economics/Philosophy dual degree. I'd like to go T-15 and this question may be irrelevant w/o an LSAT score, but would going an extra year/semester (picking up a minor) and potentially getting up to a 3.8 be worth the time and money?
Last edited by Owens.970 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

rad lulz
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby rad lulz » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:37 am

Owens.970 wrote:duel degree

They offer degrees in that?

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North
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby North » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:54 am

rad lulz wrote:
Owens.970 wrote:duel degree

They offer degrees in that?

Lulz.
Owens.970 wrote:Entering my junior year with a 3.5. Optamistically, I'll have a 3.65 by the time I start applying for law school. Economics/Philosophy dual degree. I'd like to go T-15 and this question may be irrelevant w/o an LSAT score, but would going an extra year/semester (picking up a minor) and potentially getting up to a 3.8 be worth the time and money?
I'd do it. 3.8 puts you over pretty much all the traditional GPA floors. Just be sure to study as long as you have to to get a 171+ on your LSAT to make it worth your while, then enjoy sending reasonably competitive apps to HYS.

chewy
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby chewy » Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:04 am

How much debt will this additional year require?

Owens.970
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby Owens.970 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:14 am

chewy wrote:How much debt will this additional year require?


Just 5500 in loans but I figure I'll receive more than that in scholarships at some schools with the GPA bump and a good LSAT.

Owens.970
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby Owens.970 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:16 am

Also, do admissions look down on 5-year plans to increase GPA? If I were to pick up another major/minor, would the degree make any difference?

HarvardHopeful93
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby HarvardHopeful93 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:44 am

Owens.970 wrote:Also, do admissions look down on 5-year plans to increase GPA? If I were to pick up another major/minor, would the degree make any difference?


This is a question I'm curious about as well. I'm in a similar situation to the OP, and I'd like to know whether or not going for the extra year to raise one's GPA would be frowned upon.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:50 am

i don't think it is looked down upon. i took nine semesters to finish my degree because i switched majors, and it made no difference in my cycle. i didn't do it with the intention of bumping my GPA since i had about a 3.9 the whole time. i also entered my freshman fall then withdrew after six weeks and waited a year and later on took a semester off, so all in all it took six years, and i don't think any school batted an eye.

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2014
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby 2014 » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:11 pm

Assuming you have at least 120 credits at 3.65 if you were to go another full year of 30 credits at 4.0 that would get you to 3.72. If you currently have more than 120 or if you end up not acing all of your classes (which is certainly plausible, you don't have a 4.0 now you can't guarantee one over the next year), that could be more like a 3.69 or 3.7.

A full years tuition for a worthless minor and a probably .05 increase in your GPA seems dumb.

If you can show me somehow that the math makes 3.8 a possibility then I'll stand corrected, but I think you are underestimating the effect accumulating credits has on solidifying your GPA.

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spleenworship
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby spleenworship » Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:21 pm

1) an extra semester for a minor wouldn't hurt, unless it hurt your LSAT prep, provided you get a .05 increase or better. IMO, YMMV

2) Took me 13 years to finish BA, schools didn't care.... but I applied under T14, so again YMMV

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Map Cat
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby Map Cat » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:26 am

2014 wrote:Assuming you have at least 120 credits at 3.65 if you were to go another full year of 30 credits at 4.0 that would get you to 3.72. If you currently have more than 120 or if you end up not acing all of your classes (which is certainly plausible, you don't have a 4.0 now you can't guarantee one over the next year), that could be more like a 3.69 or 3.7.

A full years tuition for a worthless minor and a probably .05 increase in your GPA seems dumb.

If you can show me somehow that the math makes 3.8 a possibility then I'll stand corrected, but I think you are underestimating the effect accumulating credits has on solidifying your GPA.


+1

I love this little tool and according to it, if you have a 3.5 and 120 credit hours and you want to raise it to a 3.8, you'd have to take 180 more credit hours all at 4.0 to get there.

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buckilaw
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby buckilaw » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:32 am

Extra classes to raise your GPA is worthwhile. But don't pay for an extra year of tuition. Do some classes online or at a community college and save some money.

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Yardbird
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby Yardbird » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:45 pm

buckilaw wrote:Extra classes to raise your GPA is worthwhile. But don't pay for an extra year of tuition. Do some classes online or at a community college and save some money.

If you can do something valuable for that extra year, then go for it if the extra money isn't a factor. If you can do a second co-terminal bachelors, a second (or third) major and get good grades, its an easy decision. If you think you can get a good entry-level job, go the work experience route as 1 year of work experience may help more than the small increase in your GPA from 1 more year of study (and you'll be making money instead of spending).

For the record, I am staying a 5th year to finish a 2nd co-terminal degree. You cannot do what buckilaw said: once you finish your degree, any community college classes you take will not count toward your LSAC gpa. Online classes don't look that great IMO. If you have a coterminal degree or a second/third major, that will factor into your GPA since you will not be getting your 1st bachelor's until you are done with the second degree or the second/third major.

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TopHatToad
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby TopHatToad » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:22 pm

2014 wrote:A full years tuition for a worthless minor and a probably .05 increase in your GPA seems dumb.

If you can show me somehow that the math makes 3.8 a possibility then I'll stand corrected, but I think you are underestimating the effect accumulating credits has on solidifying your GPA.

What He Actually Said wrote:Entering my junior year with a 3.5.


A 3.5 at 60 credits can become a 3.71 by application time (ie, 3 semesters later, after fall grades) and after that you're facing diminishing returns by staying longer. Unless you want to take time off to work/travel/save whales after undergrad, your grades at the end of the calendar year will determine your admissions chances.

In an ideal situation (solid 4.0), here's what you're looking at:
Graduate and apply on schedule- 3.71 LSAC gpa
Graduate on schedule, year off (spring grades counted)- 3.75
Extra 30 credits + year off- 3.8

My understanding is that having under a 3.8 will preclude you from YHS, but then again a lot of things would have to fall into place for that to happen anyway-- perfect grades, killer LSAT etc. Your best bet at this point is to ace the rest of your classes and absolutely kill the LSAT; doing that will put you in good shape for a T14 and even $$. Don't worry about that extra year in school; if you want, get yourself some interesting work experience and it'll be more helpful.

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buckilaw
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby buckilaw » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:05 pm

shadowofjazz wrote:
buckilaw wrote:Extra classes to raise your GPA is worthwhile. But don't pay for an extra year of tuition. Do some classes online or at a community college and save some money.

If you can do something valuable for that extra year, then go for it if the extra money isn't a factor. If you can do a second co-terminal bachelors, a second (or third) major and get good grades, its an easy decision. If you think you can get a good entry-level job, go the work experience route as 1 year of work experience may help more than the small increase in your GPA from 1 more year of study (and you'll be making money instead of spending).

For the record, I am staying a 5th year to finish a 2nd co-terminal degree. You cannot do what buckilaw said: once you finish your degree, any community college classes you take will not count toward your LSAC gpa. Online classes don't look that great IMO. If you have a coterminal degree or a second/third major, that will factor into your GPA since you will not be getting your 1st bachelor's until you are done with the second degree or the second/third major.


He could take classes online before graduating...And law schools don't give a shit if you got your GPA in physics at MIT or underwater-basketweaving at the University of Phoenix, they only care about the GPA.

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spleenworship
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:13 pm

buckilaw wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:
buckilaw wrote:Extra classes to raise your GPA is worthwhile. But don't pay for an extra year of tuition. Do some classes online or at a community college and save some money.

If you can do something valuable for that extra year, then go for it if the extra money isn't a factor. If you can do a second co-terminal bachelors, a second (or third) major and get good grades, its an easy decision. If you think you can get a good entry-level job, go the work experience route as 1 year of work experience may help more than the small increase in your GPA from 1 more year of study (and you'll be making money instead of spending).

For the record, I am staying a 5th year to finish a 2nd co-terminal degree. You cannot do what buckilaw said: once you finish your degree, any community college classes you take will not count toward your LSAC gpa. Online classes don't look that great IMO. If you have a coterminal degree or a second/third major, that will factor into your GPA since you will not be getting your 1st bachelor's until you are done with the second degree or the second/third major.


He could take classes online before graduating...And law schools don't give a shit if you got your GPA in physics at MIT or underwater-basketweaving at the University of Phoenix, they only care about the GPA.


+1

I know for a fact they don't give a shit if the classes are online below the T14. T14, I couldn't say, honestly... but my gut says they wouldn't give a shit.

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2014
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Re: Extra year undergrad to raise GPA?

Postby 2014 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:30 pm

TopHatToad wrote:
2014 wrote:A full years tuition for a worthless minor and a probably .05 increase in your GPA seems dumb.

If you can show me somehow that the math makes 3.8 a possibility then I'll stand corrected, but I think you are underestimating the effect accumulating credits has on solidifying your GPA.

What He Actually Said wrote:Entering my junior year with a 3.5.


A 3.5 at 60 credits can become a 3.71 by application time (ie, 3 semesters later, after fall grades) and after that you're facing diminishing returns by staying longer. Unless you want to take time off to work/travel/save whales after undergrad, your grades at the end of the calendar year will determine your admissions chances.

In an ideal situation (solid 4.0), here's what you're looking at:
Graduate and apply on schedule- 3.71 LSAC gpa
Graduate on schedule, year off (spring grades counted)- 3.75
Extra 30 credits + year off- 3.8

My understanding is that having under a 3.8 will preclude you from YHS, but then again a lot of things would have to fall into place for that to happen anyway-- perfect grades, killer LSAT etc. Your best bet at this point is to ace the rest of your classes and absolutely kill the LSAT; doing that will put you in good shape for a T14 and even $$. Don't worry about that extra year in school; if you want, get yourself some interesting work experience and it'll be more helpful.

It isn't clear from his OP whether the 3.65 is after 6 or 7 semesters, but you assume 6 so fine. Either way the only way he is going to sniff 3.8 is with 5 more semesters of straight 4.0's, which based on practicality and evidenced by the fact that he has managed a 3.5 so far, I'd put the odds at successfully doing so very very low. Realistically he still ends up closer to 3.7 than 3.8 and is out a years worth of COA and earning potential.

We seem to be on the same page about what he SHOULD do though which is kill it and graduate at a normal time and spend a year in between doing something profitable, interesting, or both.




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