Omitting Menial College Jobs

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RSterling
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Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby RSterling » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:14 pm

I worked for about 11 months at a coffee shop my senior year of college. I graduated from college in December 2010 but since I finished early I stayed in my college town through the summer and worked at the coffee shop until while I worked on my post-grad plans (applying for jobs & deciding whether to go to law school that fall).

I should probably include this dumb job on my resume right? Otherwise my next job (which is much more meaninful) is in November 2011. That seems to be too much of a gap.

JohnV
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby JohnV » Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:23 pm

Why not? Money is money, time is time, it shows that you weren't just sitting in your room getting high while your parents gave you every dime you had. Jobs don't have to be prestigious or impressive to be useful. I worked construction for a summer. Even though that experience probably won't be applicable to anything I do in the future, I'll still put it on to show I have a diverse work history, don't waste time, etc etc.

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Titleist
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby Titleist » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:47 pm

I think since it is recent you should add it. However, I did not add various summer jobs I had in high school such as Best Buy or working at a grocery store. But I added all jobs I had during UG.

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nickb285
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby nickb285 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:48 pm

Appearing to have worked a crap job > appearing to have been unemployed since graduation.

bobbyh1919
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby bobbyh1919 » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:58 pm

nickb285 wrote:Appearing to have worked a crap job > appearing to have been unemployed since graduation.



This. I just wouldn't include any jobs that you haven't worked at since high school.

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RSterling
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby RSterling » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:14 am

What if adding every single job I had while in school would require me to go over one page on my resume? I know most schools don't mind if it's over 1pg but I think it looks really crisp and neat as is on one page.

I was able to add that coffee shop job to show I wasn't just bumming around, but I had a few other jobs in college that really aren't relevant to law school. Should I add those as well?

They don't really add anything and my GPA is solid (4.0), so it's not like I need to add contex to explaining struggling grades.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:23 am

RSterling wrote:What if adding every single job I had while in school would require me to go over one page on my resume? I know most schools don't mind if it's over 1pg but I think it looks really crisp and neat as is on one page.

I was able to add that coffee shop job to show I wasn't just bumming around, but I had a few other jobs in college that really aren't relevant to law school. Should I add those as well?

They don't really add anything and my GPA is solid (4.0), so it's not like I need to add contex to explaining struggling grades.

Don't add anything from before college, unless it was like 'Founded internet startup at the age of 16, sold it for $5B.'

If you haven't been out of college with multiple jobs for...(arbitrary number) at least 5 years, there is no way your resume should be over a page. Leave something off, shorten your descriptions, or reformat. Menial jobs in food service and retail don't require description. Everyone knows what a Starbucks barista does.

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RSterling
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby RSterling » Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:43 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
RSterling wrote:What if adding every single job I had while in school would require me to go over one page on my resume? I know most schools don't mind if it's over 1pg but I think it looks really crisp and neat as is on one page.

I was able to add that coffee shop job to show I wasn't just bumming around, but I had a few other jobs in college that really aren't relevant to law school. Should I add those as well?

They don't really add anything and my GPA is solid (4.0), so it's not like I need to add contex to explaining struggling grades.

Don't add anything from before college, unless it was like 'Founded internet startup at the age of 16, sold it for $5B.'

If you haven't been out of college with multiple jobs for...(arbitrary number) at least 5 years, there is no way your resume should be over a page. Leave something off, shorten your descriptions, or reformat. Menial jobs in food service and retail don't require description. Everyone knows what a Starbucks barista does.


That's what I'm thinking. I'm definitely not adding anything from before college. Re: descriptions though, everything on my resume currently has two bullet points worth of info. If I take off the descriptions for my coffee shop job (which I'm only including because I worked there after graduation), would that look like clunky formatting?

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rinkrat19
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:04 pm

RSterling wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
RSterling wrote:What if adding every single job I had while in school would require me to go over one page on my resume? I know most schools don't mind if it's over 1pg but I think it looks really crisp and neat as is on one page.

I was able to add that coffee shop job to show I wasn't just bumming around, but I had a few other jobs in college that really aren't relevant to law school. Should I add those as well?

They don't really add anything and my GPA is solid (4.0), so it's not like I need to add contex to explaining struggling grades.

Don't add anything from before college, unless it was like 'Founded internet startup at the age of 16, sold it for $5B.'

If you haven't been out of college with multiple jobs for...(arbitrary number) at least 5 years, there is no way your resume should be over a page. Leave something off, shorten your descriptions, or reformat. Menial jobs in food service and retail don't require description. Everyone knows what a Starbucks barista does.
That's what I'm thinking. I'm definitely not adding anything from before college. Re: descriptions though, everything on my resume currently has two bullet points worth of info. If I take off the descriptions for my coffee shop job (which I'm only including because I worked there after graduation), would that look like clunky formatting?
No, take off the description. Bullet-point lists of your responsibilities at a coffee shop look pretty silly, unless there actually was something non-standard. (Like maybe you also designed and maintained the coffee shop's website.)

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RSterling
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby RSterling » Tue Jul 24, 2012 1:15 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
RSterling wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
RSterling wrote:What if adding every single job I had while in school would require me to go over one page on my resume? I know most schools don't mind if it's over 1pg but I think it looks really crisp and neat as is on one page.

I was able to add that coffee shop job to show I wasn't just bumming around, but I had a few other jobs in college that really aren't relevant to law school. Should I add those as well?

They don't really add anything and my GPA is solid (4.0), so it's not like I need to add contex to explaining struggling grades.

Don't add anything from before college, unless it was like 'Founded internet startup at the age of 16, sold it for $5B.'

If you haven't been out of college with multiple jobs for...(arbitrary number) at least 5 years, there is no way your resume should be over a page. Leave something off, shorten your descriptions, or reformat. Menial jobs in food service and retail don't require description. Everyone knows what a Starbucks barista does.
That's what I'm thinking. I'm definitely not adding anything from before college. Re: descriptions though, everything on my resume currently has two bullet points worth of info. If I take off the descriptions for my coffee shop job (which I'm only including because I worked there after graduation), would that look like clunky formatting?
No, take off the description. Bullet-point lists of your responsibilities at a coffee shop look pretty silly, unless there actually was something non-standard. (Like maybe you also designed and maintained the coffee shop's website.)



It was about as standard as it gets. Thanks.

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Yardbird
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby Yardbird » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:07 am

Most law schools accept 2-3 page resumes. Its more like an academic CV with work experience included. Take a look at the one's Harvard has posted on their website: Link. I would echo, however, DO NOT include high school stuff unless you saved the world or something. Law schools specifically say NOT to put high school stuff on there. I would include everything in college with descriptions, even if its a Starbucks barista. If you did some sort of project at a "menial" job, point it out - it can only help, not hurt.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:15 am

shadowofjazz wrote:Most law schools accept 2-3 page resumes. Its more like an academic CV with work experience included. Take a look at the one's Harvard has posted on their website: Link. I would echo, however, DO NOT include high school stuff unless you saved the world or something. Law schools specifically say NOT to put high school stuff on there. I would include everything in college with descriptions, even if its a Starbucks barista. If you did some sort of project at a "menial" job, point it out - it can only help, not hurt.
Nope, wrong.

There is debate over two pages; three pages is definitely too long. Even if you have 30 years of experience, you should be reducing that down to the most relevant jobs.

Only one of the sample resumes on that Harvard page is longer than 1 page, and it's less than a page and a half. (And none of the jobs were menial.)

And why the fuck would an adcomm need clarification of what a barista does? They're not idiots. Describe if if NEEDS description, not to fill space.

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Yardbird
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby Yardbird » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:23 am

rinkrat19 wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:Most law schools accept 2-3 page resumes. Its more like an academic CV with work experience included. Take a look at the one's Harvard has posted on their website: Link. I would echo, however, DO NOT include high school stuff unless you saved the world or something. Law schools specifically say NOT to put high school stuff on there. I would include everything in college with descriptions, even if its a Starbucks barista. If you did some sort of project at a "menial" job, point it out - it can only help, not hurt.
Nope, wrong.

There is debate over two pages; three pages is definitely too long. Even if you have 30 years of experience, you should be reducing that down to the most relevant jobs.

Only one of the sample resumes on that Harvard page is longer than 1 page, and it's less than a page and a half. (And none of the jobs were menial.)

And why the fuck would an adcomm need clarification of what a barista does? They're not idiots. Describe if if NEEDS description, not to fill space.

Didn't say it has to be 3 pages, only that some law schools (T30 ones) accept 3 pages. From personally emailing every T30 admissions offices, 2 is perfectly alright (especially when its OPTIONAL at most of them).

Regarding the barista, I didn't say they have to write the duties/responsibilities. I said if they worked on a project that had meaningful impact to the organization even if it was a menial job, they should put *that* down (the project), not the responsibility. Everyone does know what a barista or construction worker does. But if that barista increased profits for a Starbucks through an on campus marketing campaign or if the construction worker increased efficiency by eliminating a bottleneck in work flow, those are things worth mentioning as they show that the applicant did more than what one would normally think.
Last edited by Yardbird on Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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99.9luft
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:24 am

Question: because i really want to fit into 2 pages, i eliminated college work experience (i will have 5+ years of WE when applying). Because (some/most?) the online apps ask to list college work experience and hours spent per week, is it a good idea to keep the college work experience out?

on the "Work Experience" section (similar to the harvard resume sample #2 posted in the above posts) i just noted "post-collegiate"

I have multiple work-study jobs throughout college, there is no way i can fiddle with the font or margins to fit that in.

thoughts?

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rinkrat19
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:32 am

99.9luft wrote:Question: because i really want to fit into 2 pages, i eliminated college work experience (i will have 5+ years of WE when applying). Because (some/most?) the online apps ask to list college work experience and hours spent per week, is it a good idea to keep the college work experience out?

on the "Work Experience" section (similar to the harvard resume sample #2 posted in the above posts) i just noted "post-collegiate"

I have multiple work-study jobs throughout college, there is no way i can fiddle with the font or margins to fit that in.

thoughts?
Shorten your descriptions. Something is taking up too much room.

I included my college jobs, several volunteer gigs, and several post-grad jobs (I've been out of college since 2002), all with descriptions, and fit mine on 2 pages.

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99.9luft
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:38 am

rinkrat19 wrote:
99.9luft wrote:Question: because i really want to fit into 2 pages, i eliminated college work experience (i will have 5+ years of WE when applying). Because (some/most?) the online apps ask to list college work experience and hours spent per week, is it a good idea to keep the college work experience out?

on the "Work Experience" section (similar to the harvard resume sample #2 posted in the above posts) i just noted "post-collegiate"

I have multiple work-study jobs throughout college, there is no way i can fiddle with the font or margins to fit that in.

thoughts?
Shorten your descriptions. Something is taking up too much room.

I included my college jobs, several volunteer gigs, and several post-grad jobs (I've been out of college since 2002), all with descriptions, and fit mine on 2 pages.


sorry, i'm a retard - i meant i wanted it on 1 page. So you're saying it is worth going over 1 page to include college work experience?

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rinkrat19
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:43 am

99.9luft wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
99.9luft wrote:Question: because i really want to fit into 2 pages, i eliminated college work experience (i will have 5+ years of WE when applying). Because (some/most?) the online apps ask to list college work experience and hours spent per week, is it a good idea to keep the college work experience out?

on the "Work Experience" section (similar to the harvard resume sample #2 posted in the above posts) i just noted "post-collegiate"

I have multiple work-study jobs throughout college, there is no way i can fiddle with the font or margins to fit that in.

thoughts?
Shorten your descriptions. Something is taking up too much room.

I included my college jobs, several volunteer gigs, and several post-grad jobs (I've been out of college since 2002), all with descriptions, and fit mine on 2 pages.


sorry, i'm a retard - i meant i wanted it on 1 page. So you're saying it is worth going over 1 page to include college work experience?
Some people think it is. I think it depends on the jobs.

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99.9luft
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:48 am

rinkrat19 wrote:
99.9luft wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
99.9luft wrote:Question: because i really want to fit into 2 pages, i eliminated college work experience (i will have 5+ years of WE when applying). Because (some/most?) the online apps ask to list college work experience and hours spent per week, is it a good idea to keep the college work experience out?

on the "Work Experience" section (similar to the harvard resume sample #2 posted in the above posts) i just noted "post-collegiate"

I have multiple work-study jobs throughout college, there is no way i can fiddle with the font or margins to fit that in.

thoughts?
Shorten your descriptions. Something is taking up too much room.

I included my college jobs, several volunteer gigs, and several post-grad jobs (I've been out of college since 2002), all with descriptions, and fit mine on 2 pages.


sorry, i'm a retard - i meant i wanted it on 1 page. So you're saying it is worth going over 1 page to include college work experience?
Some people think it is. I think it depends on the jobs.


The jobs were all on-campus work/study jobs...and i had maybe 3-5 of them. The point of including it would be to show how busy i was working almost every semester of college, but no, they aren't spectacular or interesting (at least not as much as my post-college ones). I just don't know if putting these jobs on the app only and not on the resume is wrong in the eyes of the adcoms.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:13 am

99.9luft wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
99.9luft wrote:sorry, i'm a retard - i meant i wanted it on 1 page. So you're saying it is worth going over 1 page to include college work experience?
Some people think it is. I think it depends on the jobs.


The jobs were all on-campus work/study jobs...and i had maybe 3-5 of them. The point of including it would be to show how busy i was working almost every semester of college, but no, they aren't spectacular or interesting (at least not as much as my post-college ones). I just don't know if putting these jobs on the app only and not on the resume is wrong in the eyes of the adcoms.
Your resume CAN be a sort of highlight reel, and doesn't necessarily have to match the application form 100%.

That said, is there any way you could combine the work study jobs into one listing? "On-campus work study, Academic years 2004-2008" or something?

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99.9luft
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby 99.9luft » Wed Jul 25, 2012 2:26 am

rinkrat19 wrote:
99.9luft wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
99.9luft wrote:sorry, i'm a retard - i meant i wanted it on 1 page. So you're saying it is worth going over 1 page to include college work experience?
Some people think it is. I think it depends on the jobs.


The jobs were all on-campus work/study jobs...and i had maybe 3-5 of them. The point of including it would be to show how busy i was working almost every semester of college, but no, they aren't spectacular or interesting (at least not as much as my post-college ones). I just don't know if putting these jobs on the app only and not on the resume is wrong in the eyes of the adcoms.
Your resume CAN be a sort of highlight reel, and doesn't necessarily have to match the application form 100%.

That said, is there any way you could combine the work study jobs into one listing? "On-campus work study, Academic years 2004-2008" or something?


not a bad idea, i'll try that...thanks, rinkrat. can't wait to apply this fall..

lemony
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby lemony » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:09 pm

Random: one of the attorneys at the law firm I interned at last summer was telling me about how she worked as a clown for kids' birthday parties during her 1-2 years before attending law school. She added that it gave her some interesting material for her PS!

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acrossthelake
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:05 pm

Include the coffee shop job. You don't want a gap.

In terms of other jobs you did during college that you didn't do after:

I had a variety of odd jobs in college, including working the desk at the library and transcribing audio interviews for the sociology dept. I summarized it as "Worked X hours per week to finance my undergraduate education" underneath my college.
People respect working to finance college, even if the tasks are fairly menial and low in skill requirements/development. I've gotten a few compliments on it during interviews, and occasionally someone will ask me to expand on what I did, and ask follow-up questions on specific jobs. So, that's one suggestion.

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dingbat
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Re: Omitting Menial College Jobs

Postby dingbat » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:40 pm

If you went straight through to Undergrad, your resume shouldn't be more than 1 page long.
I've seen plenty of 2 and 3 page resumes and the one thing they have in common is accomplishments. No offense, but until you've got some real accomplishments under your belt, don't go to 2 pages.

There are very good tips here on how to keep it low, such as acrossthelake's combining several jobs into 1 item or rinkrat telling you not to give details for simple jobs (if you didn't do anything noteworthy, don't add any notes)
Take them to heart.

edit: I've omitted many jobs from my resume because they have no bearing on my future endeavors. Doesn't mean I don't value the experience, just that no one else will




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