What is the point of URM status?

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Huey Freeman
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What is the point of URM status?

Postby Huey Freeman » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:35 pm

I feel like this is a system that is heavily abused by both students and law schools - it seems extremely unfair to me.

Let me give you guys an example:

In high school, I went to a fairly expensive private school, where most of the kids were the sons/daughters of multi-millionaires. One of my classmates was a smart girl, but by no means in anseriously competitive spot for top tier UG schools. To everyone's surprise, she got accepted to 2 Ivy League schools. She happened to have a great grandmother from Bolivia, and marked that she was Spanish on all of her applications. Now, this is a girl who has an indoor swimming pool in her basement, and the total value of her flat screen TVs and computers is probably worth as much as my house.

On the flip side, during a summer math program I participated in, I met some of the smartest people I have ever encountered. One of these guys was an absolute genius, and worked his butt off every day to fight like hell to hit the top of his class. He was also fairly poor, had a tough upbringing, and worked a part time job through the final years of high school just to support his family. The downside? He happened to be asian, born in the US after his parents immigrated over. He ended up at the same school the previous girl. This guy really was exceptional - pretty sure he went on to the final 30 selected for math camp before the international math olympiad and all that.

What exactly is the point of the URM system? Why the hell are people with everything in the world able to abuse it, while the people it is supposedly meant to help, the guys that are at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder get stonewalled by the fact that they are white/asian/no. URM?

Same story about extended time testing, but that's another rant. Please don't get me started on so called "ADHD" diagnosis....

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dowu
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby dowu » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:37 pm

IBTL.

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dowu
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby dowu » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:38 pm

Huey Freeman wrote:I feel like this is a system that is heavily abused by both students and law schools - it seems extremely unfair to me.

Let me give you guys an example:

In high school, I went to a fairly expensive private school, where most of the kids were the sons/daughters of multi-millionaires. One of my classmates was a smart girl, but by no means in anseriously competitive spot for top tier UG schools. To everyone's surprise, she got accepted to 2 Ivy League schools. She happened to have a great grandmother from Bolivia, and marked that she was Spanish on all of her applications. Now, this is a girl who has an indoor swimming pool in her basement, and the total value of her flat screen TVs and computers is probably worth as much as my house.

On the flip side, during a summer math program I participated in, I met some of the smartest people I have ever encountered. One of these guys was an absolute genius, and worked his butt off every day to fight like hell to hit the top of his class. He was also fairly poor, had a tough upbringing, and worked a part time job through the final years of high school just to support his family. The downside? He happened to be asian, born in the US after his parents immigrated over. He ended up at the same school the previous girl. This guy really was exceptional - pretty sure he went on to the final 30 selected for math camp before the international math olympiad and all that.

What exactly is the point of the URM system? Why the hell are people with everything in the world able to abuse it, while the people it is supposedly meant to help, the guys that are at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder get stonewalled by the fact that they are white/asian/no. URM?

Same story about extended time testing, but that's another rant. Please don't get me started on so called "ADHD" diagnosis....



Oh yeah, obligatory QFP.

kcam1991
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby kcam1991 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:47 pm

URM boosts do more good than bad and your anecdote, while probably true, is not the norm.

sfxx
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby sfxx » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:20 pm

This has never been discussed before. Thank you for bringing new insights to this topic.

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PaulKriske
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby PaulKriske » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:21 pm

lol.

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dowu
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby dowu » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:24 pm

kcam1991 wrote:URM boosts do more good than bad and your anecdote, while probably true, is not the norm.


+1. Your rich Bolivian friend is not the norm. The majority of people who mark down hispanic/PA come from poor families.

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PaulKriske
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby PaulKriske » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:28 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:The majority of people who mark down hispanic/PA come from poor families.


racist.

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ConfidenceMan2
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby ConfidenceMan2 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:32 pm

flem wrote:152

He's actually making (or rather attempting to make) a moral argument rather than providing an incoherent rant.

Which lowers the value. 146 seems right.

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dowu
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby dowu » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:36 pm

PaulKriske wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:The majority of people who mark down hispanic/PA come from poor families.


racist.


I'm MA and AA and I definitely came from a lower-than-middle-class family.

abc12345675
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:39 pm

Huey Freeman wrote:I feel like this is a system that is heavily abused by both students and law schools - it seems extremely unfair to me.

Let me give you guys an example:

In high school, I went to a fairly expensive private school, where most of the kids were the sons/daughters of multi-millionaires. One of my classmates was a smart girl, but by no means in anseriously competitive spot for top tier UG schools. To everyone's surprise, she got accepted to 2 Ivy League schools. She happened to have a great grandmother from Bolivia, and marked that she was Spanish on all of her applications. Now, this is a girl who has an indoor swimming pool in her basement, and the total value of her flat screen TVs and computers is probably worth as much as my house.

On the flip side, during a summer math program I participated in, I met some of the smartest people I have ever encountered. One of these guys was an absolute genius, and worked his butt off every day to fight like hell to hit the top of his class. He was also fairly poor, had a tough upbringing, and worked a part time job through the final years of high school just to support his family. The downside? He happened to be asian, born in the US after his parents immigrated over. He ended up at the same school the previous girl. This guy really was exceptional - pretty sure he went on to the final 30 selected for math camp before the international math olympiad and all that.

What exactly is the point of the URM system? Why the hell are people with everything in the world able to abuse it, while the people it is supposedly meant to help, the guys that are at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder get stonewalled by the fact that they are white/asian/no. URM?

Same story about extended time testing, but that's another rant. Please don't get me started on so called "ADHD" diagnosis....


This is a fight you can't win. Move on. I got lambasted for one of these threads a month ago or so

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PaulKriske
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby PaulKriske » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:51 pm

nmop_apisdn wrote:
PaulKriske wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:The majority of people who mark down hispanic/PA come from poor families.


racist.


I'm MA and AA and I definitely came from a lower-than-middle-class family.



and that proves you're not racist how?

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dowu
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby dowu » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:55 pm

PaulKriske wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:
PaulKriske wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:The majority of people who mark down hispanic/PA come from poor families.


racist.


I'm MA and AA and I definitely came from a lower-than-middle-class family.



and that proves you're not racist how?


I was going to write a succint and coherent response to your trolling but then I decided that you should go fuck yourself. HTH

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PaulKriske
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby PaulKriske » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:56 pm

all i'm saying is that claiming to be a member of some race or socioeconomic class does not preclude one from being a racist. i would love to hear you respond to my "trolling," though.

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dowu
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby dowu » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:04 pm

PaulKriske wrote:all i'm saying is that claiming to be a member of some race or socioeconomic class does not preclude one from being a racist. i would love to hear you respond to my "trolling," though.


For sure, and I agree with you on that. However, by presenting that notion, you would also have to agree that there are people who ARE a member of some race and are not racist. I happen to fall in the latter group of people.

My earlier anecdote was merely to show that the URM boost can be meaningful for people who have a socioeconomic status that is the exact opposite of the one that the OP described. That is to say, sure, there are wealthy URMs and they might not deserve the boost as much as a poor URM, but it would get way too tricky for the adcoms if they had to start looking at finances rather than just the URM status of the applicant.

The purpose of the URM boost is to help the majority of under represented (in school/jobs, specifically) people who fall under certain racial categories. The issue is not about who deserves it and who doesnt, since that argument is based on personal opinion, ya dig?
Last edited by dowu on Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Nova
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby Nova » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:09 pm

PaulKriske wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:The majority of people who mark down hispanic/PA come from poor families.


racist.



Its simply a fact regarding the overall national population. Its probably not too different with the app pool.

In 2007, just under one third of white households with young children throughout the country had incomes below the poverty level, and about 14 percent had no assets. But a full 69 percent of similar Latino households and 71 percent of black families lived below the poverty line. In each case, 40 percent of such black and Latino families also had no assets.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/0 ... 45866.html
Last edited by Nova on Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dowu
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby dowu » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:12 pm

Nova wrote:
PaulKriske wrote:
nmop_apisdn wrote:The majority of people who mark down hispanic/PA come from poor families.


racist.



Its simply a fact regarding the overall national population. Its probably not too different with the app pool.

In 2007, just under one third of white households with young children throughout the country had incomes below the poverty level, and about 14 percent had no assets. But a full 69 percent of similar Latino households and 71 percent of black families lived below the poverty line. In each case, 40 percent of such black and Latino families also had no assets.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/0 ... 45866.html


:shock:

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ru2486
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby ru2486 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:13 pm

Huey Freeman wrote:But I'm white! And the system is biased against me! WAAAAAAA!

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Systematic1
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby Systematic1 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:16 pm

abc12345675 wrote:
Huey Freeman wrote:I feel like this is a system that is heavily abused by both students and law schools - it seems extremely unfair to me.

Let me give you guys an example:

In high school, I went to a fairly expensive private school, where most of the kids were the sons/daughters of multi-millionaires. One of my classmates was a smart girl, but by no means in anseriously competitive spot for top tier UG schools. To everyone's surprise, she got accepted to 2 Ivy League schools. She happened to have a great grandmother from Bolivia, and marked that she was Spanish on all of her applications. Now, this is a girl who has an indoor swimming pool in her basement, and the total value of her flat screen TVs and computers is probably worth as much as my house.

On the flip side, during a summer math program I participated in, I met some of the smartest people I have ever encountered. One of these guys was an absolute genius, and worked his butt off every day to fight like hell to hit the top of his class. He was also fairly poor, had a tough upbringing, and worked a part time job through the final years of high school just to support his family. The downside? He happened to be asian, born in the US after his parents immigrated over. He ended up at the same school the previous girl. This guy really was exceptional - pretty sure he went on to the final 30 selected for math camp before the international math olympiad and all that.

What exactly is the point of the URM system? Why the hell are people with everything in the world able to abuse it, while the people it is supposedly meant to help, the guys that are at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder get stonewalled by the fact that they are white/asian/no. URM?

Same story about extended time testing, but that's another rant. Please don't get me started on so called "ADHD" diagnosis....


This is a fight you can't win. Move on. I got lambasted for one of these threads a month ago or so



TCR. You're not going to win this fight on TLS. Even though giving special privileges to URMs is clearly a backwards process (it assumes URMs need special treatment in order to compete with non URMS), it's not something that can be logically discussed on TLS-as further evidenced by this thread.

abc12345675
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:18 pm

flem wrote:Part of me hopes to see affirmative action get struck down in Fisher v Texas this fall.

The other part of me loves it when white people get IR8AF over it.


I take Justice Thomas' word on it that affirmative action sucks.

FloridaCoastalorbust
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:21 pm

I once met a fellow who claimed that he could not physically distinguish people's skin colors. I didn't believe him.

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catholicgirl
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby catholicgirl » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:24 pm

Sigh

I'm going to go make some popcorn and see how this thread ends.

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DCDuck
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby DCDuck » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:26 pm

FloridaCoastalorbust wrote:I once met a fellow who claimed that he could not physically distinguish people's skin colors. I didn't believe him.


Stephen Colbert?

abc12345675
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby abc12345675 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:30 pm

catholicgirl wrote:Sigh

I'm going to go make some popcorn and see how this thread ends.


Here's a preview:

-White person complaining it's not fair

- Minority arguing that it IS fair

- White person and minority person go back and forth

-Random white dude who feels sorry for his "advantages" in life pretends to care and takes the non-traditional white person approach

And around and around we go

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superbloom
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Re: What is the point of URM status?

Postby superbloom » Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:31 pm

Speaking as a lower-middle class white person, yes URM boosts suck.

But do you know what sucks more? The fact that we need things like URM boosts and affirmative action. We live in a society gamed against blacks and hispanics. Lets cry foul at just about the only advantage given to these groups. I don't want to turn this post into a rant where I throw statistics at you, but any moral arguement against AA can't even be justified.




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