Academic Misconduct

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junlawun89
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Academic Misconduct

Postby junlawun89 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:54 pm

Hello, I am trying to apply to law schools for the next academic year but I have a slight concern.
When I was a sophomore in college, I cheated on a small quiz.
I got caught and admitted that I did try to look for answers from my friend.
My professor told me that she would penalize me for it by giving me a zero on the quiz but also said that
the record will be expunged when I graduate if I did not commit any further academic misconduct and I did not.
Now, I have graduated from college this year and was wondering if I still need to report this to law schools.
And whether this will affect me at all for my law school admission chances?
Please give me detailed information as much as you can!
I would really appreciate it.
Thank you.

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Yardbird
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby Yardbird » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:15 am

junlawun89 wrote:Hello, I am trying to apply to law schools for the next academic year but I have a slight concern.
When I was a sophomore in college, I cheated on a small quiz.
I got caught and admitted that I did try to look for answers from my friend.
My professor told me that she would penalize me for it by giving me a zero on the quiz but also said that
the record will be expunged when I graduate if I did not commit any further academic misconduct and I did not.
Now, I have graduated from college this year and was wondering if I still need to report this to law schools.
And whether this will affect me at all for my law school admission chances?
Please give me detailed information as much as you can!
I would really appreciate it.
Thank you.


Contact the appropriate judicial affairs committee at your school and ask for a copy of your academic record. See if there's anything on it. If its clean, you're clean. If its not, write an addendum.

junlawun89
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby junlawun89 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:42 am

If I do have to report, would this hurt my application at all?

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Yardbird
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby Yardbird » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:05 am

junlawun89 wrote:If I do have to report, would this hurt my application at all?

Find out if you actually have to stress about it before you do stress about it.

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cinephile
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby cinephile » Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:35 am

My understanding is that you're still supposed to report any violation, even if it has been expunged. I guess if there was no record anywhere, then no one would know, but isn't it better to be safe than sorry? Like if you wasted 3 years and 6 figures on a legal education and then couldn't pass the bar because of this, that would be awful. So just report it, very much doubt it'll make a difference.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:44 am

Actually, it will probably make a big difference. You're a cheater, and law schools absolutely hate cheaters.

junlawun89
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby junlawun89 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:05 am

Will I still have a shot at top 10 law schools with this record provided that my GPA and LSAT score are high?

thederangedwang
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby thederangedwang » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:06 am

junlawun89 wrote:Will I still have a shot at top 10 law schools with this record provided that my GPA and LSAT score are high?



shadowofjazz wrote:Find out if you actually have to stress about it before you do stress about it.

TMC116
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby TMC116 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:13 am

Pretty sure you have to report this. You could be prevented from taking the bar and practicing law altogether if you don't. I don't know how big of a difference it will make

shock259
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby shock259 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:16 am

Pretty sure you have to report as well. But you'll have to look at the applications themselves, as they all use slightly different language. But if I remember right, they all ask for any incident when you have been accused of academic dishonesty (not even found guilty).

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Yardbird
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby Yardbird » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:41 am

Once again, no sense worrying about it until you have to. If its expunged from your academic record you're in the clear. The above posters' comments would apply to your nonacademic record, even if it has been "expunged" as a non-academic record is never truly expunged. Go talk to your school before you freak out.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:24 am

shadowofjazz wrote:Once again, no sense worrying about it until you have to. If its expunged from your academic record you're in the clear. The above posters' comments would apply to your nonacademic record, even if it has been "expunged" as a non-academic record is never truly expunged. Go talk to your school before you freak out.

Nope. "Expunged" doesn't mean something never happened. If an application asks you whether you've ever been subject to disciplinary action, reported/investigated for academic misconduct, etc. then you have to disclose. Even if it was punishment for something academic rather than something else.

shock259
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby shock259 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:31 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:Once again, no sense worrying about it until you have to. If its expunged from your academic record you're in the clear. The above posters' comments would apply to your nonacademic record, even if it has been "expunged" as a non-academic record is never truly expunged. Go talk to your school before you freak out.

Nope. "Expunged" doesn't mean something never happened. If an application asks you whether you've ever been subject to disciplinary action, reported/investigated for academic misconduct, etc. then you have to disclose. Even if it was punishment for something academic rather than something else.


This. You are still obligated to disclose it if they ask directly about it, regardless of whether or not it is on file somewhere. Your law school may not discover it if you lie on your application, but the C&F is very thorough. If they find you lied, then you will have wasted 3 years and $200k. Better to be honest and take your chances.

dixon02
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby dixon02 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:35 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
shadowofjazz wrote:Once again, no sense worrying about it until you have to. If its expunged from your academic record you're in the clear. The above posters' comments would apply to your nonacademic record, even if it has been "expunged" as a non-academic record is never truly expunged. Go talk to your school before you freak out.

Nope. "Expunged" doesn't mean something never happened. If an application asks you whether you've ever been subject to disciplinary action, reported/investigated for academic misconduct, etc. then you have to disclose. Even if it was punishment for something academic rather than something else.


Disagree. We'd need to find out more about what process occurred and what exactly the professor meant by 'expunged.' If there was actual process by a school committee/department and a record was created but later expunged, I agree you have to report it.

However, this sounds more like a teacher's internal process. If all this consisted of was a teacher giving you a 0 and never reporting you as long as you did not commit any more misconduct, then I would do exactly as the earlier poster said: request your academic record, and if it's clean, you're clean.

There is a certain amount of process that you are supposed to receive if accused/convicted of academic dishonesty. It doesn't sound like you ever received it. If no record was created, there is no way I would report something for which I received no hearing, no opportunity to explain/defend myself, and no right to an appeal (this applies despite the fact that you admitted it to the teacher). When law school apps ask whether you've ever been accused of academic misconduct, I interpret that to mean accused by an institution, not accused by an individual teacher.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby Bildungsroman » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:42 am

dixon02 wrote:
However, this sounds more like a teacher's internal process. If all this consisted of was a teacher giving you a 0 and never reporting you as long as you did not commit any more misconduct, then I would do exactly as the earlier poster said: request your academic record, and if it's clean, you're clean.

There is a certain amount of process that you are supposed to receive if accused/convicted of academic dishonesty. It doesn't sound like you ever received it. If no record was created, there is no way I would report something for which I received no hearing, no opportunity to explain/defend myself, and no right to an appeal (this applies despite the fact that you admitted it to the teacher). When law school apps ask whether you've ever been accused of academic misconduct, I interpret that to mean accused by an institution, not accused by an individual teacher.
lol. The guy confessed to cheating and agreed to a punishment. Your right to due process isn't violated just because you waived the opportunity to "take it to court." Feel free to torture the words of a disclosure requirement to try and get out of reporting that time you cheated, got caught, confessed, and were penalized for it. I'm sure the bar will totally view that as a good faith attempt at complying with the disclosure requirements.

dixon02
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby dixon02 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:08 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
dixon02 wrote:
However, this sounds more like a teacher's internal process. If all this consisted of was a teacher giving you a 0 and never reporting you as long as you did not commit any more misconduct, then I would do exactly as the earlier poster said: request your academic record, and if it's clean, you're clean.

There is a certain amount of process that you are supposed to receive if accused/convicted of academic dishonesty. It doesn't sound like you ever received it. If no record was created, there is no way I would report something for which I received no hearing, no opportunity to explain/defend myself, and no right to an appeal (this applies despite the fact that you admitted it to the teacher). When law school apps ask whether you've ever been accused of academic misconduct, I interpret that to mean accused by an institution, not accused by an individual teacher.
lol. The guy confessed to cheating and agreed to a punishment. Your right to due process isn't violated just because you waived the opportunity to "take it to court." Feel free to torture the words of a disclosure requirement to try and get out of reporting that time you cheated, got caught, confessed, and were penalized for it. I'm sure the bar will totally view that as a good faith attempt at complying with the disclosure requirements.


Apparently we just disagree. OP can approach it how he best sees fit. Personally, I don't think we know enough to know if he waived any right to due process. We would need to know more about the conversation that took place. I also don't recall the exact wording of the disclosure requirement on the application; it might be broad enough to make this all moot. I'm certainly not suggesting OP lie about anything, but I don't think there is anything wrong with disclosing no more than is required.

TMC116
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby TMC116 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:38 pm

dixon02 wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
dixon02 wrote:
However, this sounds more like a teacher's internal process. If all this consisted of was a teacher giving you a 0 and never reporting you as long as you did not commit any more misconduct, then I would do exactly as the earlier poster said: request your academic record, and if it's clean, you're clean.

There is a certain amount of process that you are supposed to receive if accused/convicted of academic dishonesty. It doesn't sound like you ever received it. If no record was created, there is no way I would report something for which I received no hearing, no opportunity to explain/defend myself, and no right to an appeal (this applies despite the fact that you admitted it to the teacher). When law school apps ask whether you've ever been accused of academic misconduct, I interpret that to mean accused by an institution, not accused by an individual teacher.
lol. The guy confessed to cheating and agreed to a punishment. Your right to due process isn't violated just because you waived the opportunity to "take it to court." Feel free to torture the words of a disclosure requirement to try and get out of reporting that time you cheated, got caught, confessed, and were penalized for it. I'm sure the bar will totally view that as a good faith attempt at complying with the disclosure requirements.


Apparently we just disagree. OP can approach it how he best sees fit. Personally, I don't think we know enough to know if he waived any right to due process. We would need to know more about the conversation that took place. I also don't recall the exact wording of the disclosure requirement on the application; it might be broad enough to make this all moot. I'm certainly not suggesting OP lie about anything, but I don't think there is anything wrong with disclosing no more than is required.


You need to be very careful here. If you don't disclose when you should've, you'll never practice law and you'll owe 200k+ (all because you cheated on a quiz).

Ultimately it's up to you. Just be careful here with what you decide to do here

junlawun89
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby junlawun89 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:18 pm

Thank you so much for you answers!
I talked to the dean of my school and I do have to disclose it.
I guess my question now is how much it is going to affect my application if
I am trying to make it to the top 10 law schools.
Please give me honest answers!

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PaulKriske
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby PaulKriske » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:35 pm

junlawun89 wrote:Thank you so much for you answers!
I talked to the dean of my school and I do have to disclose it.
I guess my question now is how much it is going to affect my application if
I am trying to make it to the top 10 law schools.
Please give me honest answers!


i'm not going to say it precludes you, because i don't know what the rest of your application looks like, but it's going to hurt. a lot.

being a lawyer and passing the bar and C&F review and all that jazz is very character-based. you have been caught demonstrating a lack of that.

better make sure your softs and LORs (not to mention GPA/LSAT) are amazing.

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Yardbird
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby Yardbird » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:40 pm

junlawun89 wrote:Thank you so much for you answers!
I talked to the dean of my school and I do have to disclose it.
I guess my question now is how much it is going to affect my application if
I am trying to make it to the top 10 law schools.
Please give me honest answers!


The fact that you were caught cheating is not going to be a plus. Depending on your wording on how you disclose it, it may vary from a small minus to a huge minus. For the bar's character & fitness test...I have no clue how that will play out.

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Systematic1
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby Systematic1 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:19 pm

junlawun89 wrote:I guess my question now is how much it is going to affect my application if
I am trying to make it to the top 10 law schools.


I hope it keeps you out. In my book: once a cheater, always a cheater.

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cinephile
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby cinephile » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:30 am

junlawun89 wrote:I guess my question now is how much it is going to affect my application if
I am trying to make it to the top 10 law schools.


Would you just not apply if the odds of getting in were low? All you can do is apply and see what happens.

uchi12
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby uchi12 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:27 am

.
Last edited by uchi12 on Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BVest
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Re: Academic Misconduct

Postby BVest » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:10 am

Systematic1 wrote:I hope it keeps you out. In my book: once a cheater, always a cheater.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsvsRZhNVp4&t=30s

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PourMeTea
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Post removed.

Postby PourMeTea » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:14 am

Post removed.
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