Yield protection?

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smashingrobface
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Yield protection?

Postby smashingrobface » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:25 pm

Pardon me if this has been covered. I did a search, but the most relevant responses were from several years ago.

So I'm curious about how yield protection plays out. I've read here that Penn, for one, is notorious for waitlisting/rejecting applicants well above both medians--but in my case, while my LSAT score is way above their 75th percentile, my UGPA is just barely higher than their 25th. Should I be drafting a "Why Penn" essay based on my LSAT, or will my GPA keep me in standard contention?

And other than Penn (and Michigan, about whom I've heard similar things), who's especially known for yield protection? Geographic flexibility is a factor for me in my ultimate decision (partner's psych residency won't be set in stone until early spring), so I want to maximize my options.

As always, thanks for your wisdom, TLS.

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Neander
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby Neander » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:28 pm

This post is relevant to my interests. Tagged.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:32 pm

smashingrobface wrote:Pardon me if this has been covered. I did a search, but the most relevant responses were from several years ago.

So I'm curious about how yield protection plays out. I've read here that Penn, for one, is notorious for waitlisting/rejecting applicants well above both medians--but in my case, while my LSAT score is way above their 75th percentile, my UGPA is just barely higher than their 25th. Should I be drafting a "Why Penn" essay based on my LSAT, or will my GPA keep me in standard contention?

And other than Penn (and Michigan, about whom I've heard similar things), who's especially known for yield protection? Geographic flexibility is a factor for me in my ultimate decision (partner's psych residency won't be set in stone until early spring), so I want to maximize my options.

As always, thanks for your wisdom, TLS.



If you are at their 25th GPA, I wouldn't say that is nec a yield protect. But yeah, I would do what you can to get in, because if you are at 25th GPA, you will have a hard time getting into any better schools imo.

ringo
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby ringo » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:43 pm

Yes, write a Why Penn. If you are already thinking about this more than 2 months before applications will be available, then there is no excuse to not write a Why X for every school you apply to that TLS suggests would appreciate seeing one.

Just an anecdote, but my stats sound similar to yours though my GPA is a bit lower (see profile or LSN) -- I did not write any optional essays for Penn and was WLed despite being accepted at NYU, Columbia, and Chicago (after WL). I don't think this was YP but I don't care either way. I should have written a Why Penn and so should you.

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Neander
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby Neander » Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:53 pm

A stupid question perhaps, but a question:

Is there a reason one shouldn't just write "Why X" essays for all the schools one is applying to?

thederangedwang
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby thederangedwang » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:19 pm

Neander wrote:A stupid question perhaps, but a question:

Is there a reason one shouldn't just write "Why X" essays for all the schools one is applying to?

yeah, ad comms already have a lot to read and so if your file lands with a thunk on their desk due to a personal statement, diversity statement, 4 letters of rec, resume, addendum, and then a why X...they might just say fuck this and skip you.

Also, why X are generally not necessary for schools like HLS, YLS, or SLS since they know they are the shit

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Neander
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby Neander » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:21 pm

thederangedwang wrote:
Neander wrote:A stupid question perhaps, but a question:

Is there a reason one shouldn't just write "Why X" essays for all the schools one is applying to?

yeah, ad comms already have a lot to read and so if your file lands with a thunk on their desk due to a personal statement, diversity statement, 4 letters of rec, resume, addendum, and then a why X...they might just say fuck this and skip you.

Also, why X are generally not necessary for schools like HLS, YLS, or SLS since they know they are the shit


Very good answer, thank you good sir.

I also looked you up on LSN. You are the man.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:09 am

If you really have an LSAT well above the 75th but a GPA below the 25th at Penn you're in bad shape. It seems counter intuitive, but Penn is one school where having an LSAT in the 170-172 range is better than having a higher LSAT.

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PaulKriske
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby PaulKriske » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:11 am

thederangedwang wrote:ad comms already have a lot to read and so if your file lands with a thunk on their desk due to a personal statement, diversity statement, 4 letters of rec, resume, addendum, and then a why X...they might just say fuck this and skip you.


this rings untrue.

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Neander
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby Neander » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:13 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:If you really have an LSAT well above the 75th but a GPA below the 25th at Penn you're in bad shape. It seems counter intuitive, but Penn is one school where having an LSAT in the 170-172 range is better than having a higher LSAT.


I'll be writing a Why Penn, then. I have an LSAT and GPA above both their medians, but if they gave me money I would go in a heartbeat.

admisionquestion
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby admisionquestion » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:14 am

My cycle is odd and MIGHT say something about yp. who knows. Figured id share

h - w/l
y - w/l
s - w/l
c - w/l
c - w/l
n - rejected
p - $$
b - rejected
m - $$
v - $$
d - $$
nu - Accepted
gulc - Accepted
UCLA - Rejected
Regional Tier 1 - $$$.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:29 am

Neander wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:If you really have an LSAT well above the 75th but a GPA below the 25th at Penn you're in bad shape. It seems counter intuitive, but Penn is one school where having an LSAT in the 170-172 range is better than having a higher LSAT.


I'll be writing a Why Penn, then. I have an LSAT and GPA above both their medians, but if they gave me money I would go in a heartbeat.


Above both medians is actually a little safer. But yeah definitely write one of the optional essays.

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soj
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby soj » Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:32 am

If you're below the GPA median, you're getting rejected because your numbers suck, not because of YP.

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thelawyler
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby thelawyler » Wed Jul 04, 2012 6:50 am

You have no reason to fear YP lol

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smashingrobface
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby smashingrobface » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:25 am

Thanks for the replies, crew. My 3.59 GPA isn't currently setting any worlds on fire, but I was just curious how being well above their LSAT 75th would affect me. Sounds like I don't fit the profile, which is both nice and troubling, because Penn owns bones.

thederangedwang
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby thederangedwang » Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:49 am

PaulKriske wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:ad comms already have a lot to read and so if your file lands with a thunk on their desk due to a personal statement, diversity statement, 4 letters of rec, resume, addendum, and then a why X...they might just say fuck this and skip you.


this rings untrue.

hyperbole...obviously they read your file no matter how much material there is in it...but you cant deny that on a human level, they're probably a bit pissed and are thinking "there better be something in here worth my time"....and so even if you are on the fence, it probably will not turn out well for you

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:37 am

On LSN, 45 people applied to Penn with an LSAT above 175. 8 were accepted.

177 people applied and reported a decision with an LSAT between 170-172. 107 were accepted.

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aekea
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby aekea » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:15 pm

smashingrobface wrote:Thanks for the replies, crew. My 3.59 GPA isn't currently setting any worlds on fire, but I was just curious how being well above their LSAT 75th would affect me. Sounds like I don't fit the profile, which is both nice and troubling, because Penn owns bones.

Well, I have the exact same numbers as you; 3.59 and a 178. I wrote the why penn but none of their other optional essays and was wait-listed. It seems that will likely be your fate. But if you really want penn, write at least one of their optional essays and the why penn. You'll probably get wait-listed anyway, but it can't hurt to show you're interested.

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westinghouse60
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby westinghouse60 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:31 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:On LSN, 45 people applied to Penn with an LSAT above 175. 8 were accepted.

177 people applied and reported a decision with an LSAT between 170-172. 107 were accepted.


What about ED applicants though? There were probably a lot more in the 170-172 range than 175+ range, which could partially account for the higher acceptance rate

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:37 pm

westinghouse60 wrote:What about ED applicants though?


8

http://penn.lawschoolnumbers.com/applic ... =3&type=jd

ahnhub
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby ahnhub » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:45 pm

Penn seems to simultaneously: 1) do true YP on a lot of high-LSAT/high GPA people, 2)have a "golden range" of 170-172 LSAT and 3.8+ GPA where like 90% get in, 3) avoid splitters, even mild ones, unless they ED. People with high LSATs get squeezed out between 1) and 3).

OP I think you'd get a true WL from Penn unless you ED, which doesn't seem right for you.

lawschoolboundfuture
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby lawschoolboundfuture » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:51 pm

Hi I really like Upenn and i'm extremely interested in potentially going there. My GPA is a 3.82 and my LSAT is 173. Am I at risk of not getting in because of yp. If so what should i do to ensure they dont do that. I am planning on writing a why penn, is there a best way to express my real interest in the school. Someone said the ideal range is 170-172 for acceptance, but mines only barely over that so im curious.

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echamberlin8
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby echamberlin8 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:26 pm

The subject of YP is a rather interesting, albeit frustrating, one. Most people on here seem to recommend writing additional/Why ___? essays for Penn if your numbers are sufficiently high. Someone else said don't write them for HYS, since they aren't necessary (makes sense).

I'm curious what the general guidelines are for Why ___? essays. In what situations should you write them? Are there certain schools other than Penn that it is important to write them for?

caminante
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby caminante » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:44 pm

Note that Penn doesn't ask for the traditional "Why Penn" essay, but rather has a few optional essay topics to consider. I mistakenly wrote a true "Why Penn" and then had to try to fit it to the "Why will attending Penn help you in your career 5 years from now" (or something along those lines) optional essay. I got wait-listed, and they didn't even respond to me for months after I had submitted my app. My GPA was slightly below the 75% mark and my LSAT was above 75%. I believe it was most likely YP.

Anyway, I think it's better to spend some time thinking about their particular optional essays and putting some effort into it rather than throwing them a typical "Why Penn."

The happy ending to this story is that if you get YP from Penn, you most likely will get in- possibly with money- to a higher ranked school.

caminante
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Re: Yield protection?

Postby caminante » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:56 pm

echamberlin8 wrote:I'm curious what the general guidelines are for Why ___? essays. In what situations should you write them? Are there certain schools other than Penn that it is important to write them for?


Write a Why X essay for any school that you have legitimate and specific reasons for wanting to attend. It really can't hurt you if that is the case, even if you are not worried about YP.

If there is anything about you that would make the school question whether you would attend if you were admitted, it is even more important to write a Why X. For example, if your numbers are high enough to get you into a higher ranked school, or if you have no visible ties to the area the school is in, a Why X essay is particularly helpful.

A Why X essay is not necessary for HYS because they already assume you have good reasons to attend if admitted (this is generally the case for CCN as well, though there may be exceptions). The only other time a Why X essay is NOT recommended is if you can't come up with any decent answer to "Why do you want to attend this school?"




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